Secular Argument Against Gay Marriage Before Courts

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Conscious Z

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A few months ago, there was a thread here that asked whether there were any secular arguments for a ban on gay marriage. It seems as though the argument that got the most traction went like this:

One important purpose of marriage is to raise children. Naturally, heterosexual couples should be allowed to marry. While it is true that gay couples can adopt, allowing them to marry would send the signal to society that marriage is no longer about procreation. Because it is important for society to believe that marriage is about procreation, only heterosexual couples should be allowed to marry.

I thought this was an exceptionally bad argument at the time, but it turns out that the attorneys for Michigan in the soon-to-be-landmark Obergefell v. Hodges Supreme Court case currently being heard are making a similar argument. I had a hard time believing such a terrible argument was actually being presented before the court, but alas it is. Here is an excerpt from an article in the LA Times that quotes some of the Michigan attorneys:

The state's concern, he said, is that allowing the women to marry would have an effect on the rest of society. It would "de-link the idea that we're binding children with their biological mom and dad."

But what about adopted children, asked Justice Stephen G. Breyer. Shouldn't their parents also be allowed to marry?

"We love adoptions. Adopted parents are heroic," Bursch said, but "that's an entirely different social issue."

If opposite-sex adoptive parents marry, the state doesn't see a problem with de-linking marriage and procreation in people's minds, but same-sex couples marrying would pose that problem, he explained.


Gay marriage foe's argument seems to leave Supreme Court justices puzzled - LA Times

The Justices don't seem to be buying it, as based on the Judicial questions thus far, it seems like this decision is going to be more decisive than the 5-4 majority one would expect based on voting histories. I simply thought it was interesting that the Michigan attorneys were presented the same argument that was laid out here.
 

GrimKingGrim

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One important purpose of marriage is to raise children. Naturally, heterosexual couples should be allowed to marry. While it is true that gay couples can adopt, allowing them to marry would send the signal to society that marriage is no longer about procreation. Because it is important for society to believe that marriage is about procreation, only heterosexual couples should be allowed to marry.

And here I thought marriage was about emotional and familial bonds. What about sterile couples or people who DON'T WANT KIDS??

And if parenting is something of an issue for the straight camp, which is ridiculous, let me pose this point:

I'm gonna say that 100% of people who have been serial killers, arsonists, and psychopaths were born from heterosexual marriages, relationships, or single parenting.

So clearly heterosexual relationships and single parenting should be banned. It's just plain unsafe. THINK OF THE KIDS!
 
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pakicetus

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I actually wonder if most people who say they accept the arguments against gay marriage are just lying, because they don't want to admit their opinion is based on pure emotion. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I don't think many people would accept arguments this stupid about most other topics.
 
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Open Heart

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Guess that means I should never be allowed to marry. I don't want kids, so I should be denied the benefits of a government marriage.
Any marriage you had would be considered invalid by the Catholic Church. For a marriage to be considered sacramental, the couple must be open to children.
 
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Aldebaran

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Guess that means I should never be allowed to marry. I don't want kids, so I should be denied the benefits of a government marriage.

We're all married to the government, whether we say "I do" or not. And most of us have kissed the "bride", although not in the usual place. ;)
 
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pakicetus

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Any marriage you had would be considered invalid by the Catholic Church. For a marriage to be considered sacramental, the couple must be open to children.

Thank God the Catholic Church doesn't run America, then.
 
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KitKatMatt

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Any marriage you had would be considered invalid by the Catholic Church. For a marriage to be considered sacramental, the couple must be open to children.

I was speaking of government defined marriage.

I've never been a member of the Catholic church, so I don't really care if they think my marriage would be valid or not.
 
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Aldebaran

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I was just trying to make a joke. You used the term "government marriage" back in post #3. The idea of "kissing the bride" in that case being that we all have to kiss the government's rear end in one way or another.
 
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Hank

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I thought this topic is tabu here?

Anyway. In Canada 63% of the population is fine with gay marriages.

Personally I can't relate to gays. I'd rather have the right to marry all my girl friends, but this is anti civil women's rights, and this edges me at odds with civil rights stuff all together, and get's me off topic. All I can see is, the US has too many lawyers. The government should stay away from this marriage business and leave it to the consenting adults, and bless anyone that wants to marry. :p
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I thought this topic is tabu here?

Anyway. In Canada 63% of the population is fine with gay marriages.

Personally I can't relate to gays. I'd rather have the right to marry all my girl friends, but this is anti civil women's rights, and this edges me at odds with civil rights stuff all together, and get's me off topic. All I can see is, the US has too many lawyers. The government should stay away from this marriage business and leave it to the consenting adults, and bless anyone that wants to marry. :p

But the government doesn't have the choice to stay out of it. If religious people try to keep gay marriages illegal.
 
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Conscious Z

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The government should stay away from this marriage business and leave it to the consenting adults, and bless anyone that wants to marry. :p

That is precisely what this Supreme Court case is likely to accomplish. What is at question here is whether state laws that prevent gay couples from marrying are constitutional. These laws represent the government interfering with the actions of consenting adults. If the Supreme Court overturns these laws, which they are likely to do, that will be tantamount to the government getting out of the marriage business in many ways.
 
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GrimKingGrim

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Like I said. Heterosexual parenting and marriage raises nothing but psychopaths and ends in alot of divorce, according to the data. Scientifically proving that heterosexual parenting is bad!

Ban it all and let's all be loners! ~King Grim, 2015 Presidential Slogan.


No seriously what is an actual credible argument against same sex marriage from either camp? They all crumble faster than talc so far as I can see.
 
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Interplanner

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The best public spokesperson for M-F marriage (Pragerradio.com) puts it this way (and this has happened to him): if I was asked whether a child should be with a calm, loving SS couple or a turbulent MF couple, I would say the first. But the question is unfair. Why do progressives ask questions like this? The question should be 'should a child be with a calm, loving SS couple or a calm, loving MF couple? The answer is resoundingly the 2nd.
 
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Interplanner

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If you're talking secular arguments against SS marriage, I hope that dictatorial actions counts. I know of nothing more nakedly assinine than forcing a business to participate in your wedding when anyone with an ant's knowledge of putting together a wedding party knows that you want your existing 'community' of friends there. SS people are just doing that to force political views on others and, yes, there are secular arguments against that. Or there were until, say, 2 years ago.
 
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