School Choice’s Texas-Size Victory

[BCP1928]

I have no clue. I would say, it is "ATTITUDE", connected to these radicals more than anything. Transgender is simply a product of that.. In my opinion to point to the manifestations of an attitude alone is not addressing the root and source of problems in schools and the larger society, we see being manifested as a product of Schools.

Schools were failing long before this issue came to the forefront. This thread is about the public, not wanting this in their schools. Yet it is attitudes of supporters of this activism as public employees, pretending they are that public. That is the product of a cultural problem based on an attitude. Not at all good for children, Not good for society as a whole, to look up to, nor to be influenced by to emulate, as a superior morality above everyone else. This is the Source of problem in my opinion

I'm not sure I follow all of that exactly. Would it be fair to say that you believe that "trans activism" is a symptom of failing public schools rather than a cause?

 

[BCP1928]

Move to another school. If all schools offering a basic education are Public no need for a voucher. Just have Schools that do not add on these social agendas, and things will work themselves out. It would be what education used to be in the first place. Social problems can be dealt with through another system.....like it should.

Schools have always had a social agenda. Socializing children has always been a part of their responsibility, acting in loco parentis for a large part of the childrens' lives. It's a real and important part of basic education and it always has been.

 

[ralliann]

I'm not sure I follow all of that exactly. Would it be fair to say that you believe that "trans activism" is a symptom of failing public schools rather than a cause?

The cause IMO, is attitude. Failing schools are merely a symptom...Trans activism is simply a modern manifestation of ATTITUDE.

 

[BCP1928]

The cause IMO, is attitude. Failing schools are merely a symptom...Trans activism is simply a modern manifestation of ATTITUDE.

Can you characterize this attitude more explicitly?

 

[iluvatar5150]

I have no clue.

Move to another school. If all schools offering a basic education are Public no need for a voucher. Just have Schools that do not add on these social agendas, and things will work themselves out. It would be what education used to be in the first place. Social problems can be dealt with through another system.....like it should.

So... You have no clue how much trans activism contributes to school performance, but you believe that if you got rid of it, then things would just work themselves out.... ???

 

[ralliann]

Schools have always had a social agenda. Socializing children has always been a part of their responsibility, acting in loco parentis for a large part of the childrens' lives. It's a real and important part of basic education and it always has been.

Social engineering has not. It is apart of education, because it is a social environment. We have heard Public educators, say of homeschooling, the children are not socialized. That is not true. Homeschool groups etc. The reality Public Educators, did not like the socialization home
schoolers were getting.
Attitude homeschooling socialization is unacceptable to the point it should not even be recognizesd as such...

 

[ralliann]

So... You have no clue how much trans activism contributes to school performance, but you believe that if you got rid of it, then things would just work themselves out.... ???

Again quit dismissing those who disagree with you. This is what happens, this is why these threads end up recycling of the same arguments. Rejecting out of hand peoples concerns. Moral and intellectual superiority, trivializing atrociousness. A thread about public tax payers wanting school choice, is met with, pay for your own schools. WE ARE. Who told these people they are THEIR SCHOOLS?

 

[BCP1928]

Social engineering has not. It is apart of education, because it is a social environment. We have heard Public educators, say of homeschooling, the children are not socialized. That is not true. Homeschool groups etc. The reality Public Educators, did not like the socialization home schoolers were getting.

And for good reason. Even those homeschooled kids who take part in group homeschool activities and not likely to interact with other children and adults who are very much different than themselves.

Attitude homeschooling socialization is unacceptable to the point it should not even be recognizesd as such...

Attitude? I'm still not quite sure what you mean by that.

 

[ralliann]

And for good reason. Even those homeschooled kids who take part in group homeschool activities and not likely to interact with other children and adults who are very much different than themselves.

SO, WHAT. This is not your concern...

Attitude? I'm still not quite sure what you mean by that.

See the above.

 

[BCP1928]

Again quit dismissing those who disagree with you. This is what happens, this is why these threads end up recycling of the same arguments. Rejecting out of hand peoples concerns. Moral and intellectual superiority, trivializing atrociousness. A thread about public tax payers wanting school choice, is met with, pay for your own schools. WE ARE. Who told these people they are THEIR SCHOOLS?

They are their schools just as much as they are yours--public schools. When the public school was first invented it was called the "common school" because it was thought a good idea for the health of society that all kids should go to the same school. Then, as now, private schools were available for children whose parents' social values differed sharply from those of the larger society.

 

[BCP1928]

SO, WHAT. This is not your concern...

Why not? Why should I not be concerned that a segment of the children in my community are not being fully socialized?

See the above.

No, I still don't see. Children should be brought up to be able to interact and cooperate with others who are different than themselves. It's a necessary skill in a diverse society.

 

[ralliann]

They are their schools just as much as they are yours--public schools.

Those schools belong to the public. This thread is about the public. Not School employees.

When the public school was first invented it was called the "common school" because it was thought a good idea for the health of society that all kids should go to the same school.

The community paid for the Schools and all that went with that. As Someone already brought up, Wealthy communities vs poor, can be different.

Then, as now, private schools were available for children whose parents' social values differed sharply from those of the larger society.

So, what. They can still do that. Someone wants something more than basic education all public pays for, let them pay if they can afford it. But as far as basics go, there should be no huge different in the basics between the two, in K-12.

 

[ralliann]

Why not? Why should I not be concerned that a segment of the children in my community are not being fully socialized?

No, I still don't see. Children should be brought up to be able to interact and cooperate with others who are different than themselves. It's a necessary skill in a diverse society.

Here is where The attitude of public schools is showing. All the right morals, all the right co-operation, only goes one way. You cannot reason with someone who refuses to reason. The public is what this thread focuses on, Yet is not even being addressed....it is utterly being ignored. What about when the public disagrees, is not satisfied with not receiving what they are paying for (who wouldn't)? Or disagrees with resocializing their Children? Disagrees, with what you are socializing our kids to? Especially when that socialization is demeaning and belittling of their parents (resocializing)? That is very harmful.

 

[BCP1928]

Those schools belong to the public. This thread is about the public. Not School employees.

Control of the schools is still local. Those are your employees.

The community paid for the Schools and all that went with that. As Someone already brought up, Wealthy communities vs poor, can be different.

So, what. They can still do that. Someone wants something more than basic education all public pays for, let them pay if they can afford it. But as far as basics go, there should be no huge different in the basics between the two, in K-12.

That was my point. Not all of the problems with the public schools have to do with "attitude" or can be cured by changing that attitude, If voucher schools teach the basics the way they are taught now you may find they still have problems with it.

 

[BCP1928]

Here is where The attitude of public schools is showing. All the right morals, all the right co-operation, only goes one way. You cannot reason with someone who refuses to reason. The public is what this thread focuses on, Yet is not even being addressed....it is utterly being ignored. What about when the public disagrees is not satisfied with
Not receiving what they are paying for? Or disagrees with resocializing their Children? Disagrees, with what you are socializing our kids too?

Morals? That covers a lot of ground. Can you be more particular? (and no, I am not disagreeing with you, quite the contrary. I see a real problem with how morals are taught in school--I just want more detail about your position,)

 

[rambot]

Ralliann.

Please help me understand what percentage of a school day is spent indoctrinating children on the gays and the drag queens? If that number is too small, what would it look like over a month? How many hours?

Also, it'd be great if you could let me know how many minutes per week are scheduled for Math, English Language Arts, and Social and Science? I'm curious.

Seriously, all this hyping about "what is happenning in public school" but I see nothing to show your biggest, greatest, darkest fears are even reality.

 

[ralliann]

Control of the schools is still local. Those are your employees.

Oh, now "we" have something to do with this? Post 97 to arrive at what this thread is about, which quite frankly has been denied until this 97th thread.

That was my point. Not all of the problems with the public schools have to do with "attitude" or can be cured by changing that attitude,

What problems do you want to bring to this thread? Academics? It is not the focus, rather just another factor, in a broken system.

If voucher schools teach the basics the way they are taught now you may find they still have problems with it.

Yeah you have said this before. "The way" now, is a different "WAY", then it previously was. School choice might not attempt to fix what is not broken, AKA, stick with what works.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Again quit dismissing those who disagree with you.

I'm not dismissing people who disagree with me. I'm dismissing (or in this case, questioning) arguments that don't appear to make any sense.

This is what happens, this is why these threads end up recycling of the same arguments. Rejecting out of hand peoples concerns.

Tell me, when people ask you questions and you ignore them, only to go on another barely-relevant rant, do you think that's taking other people's concerns seriously? Or do you think that's dismissing them and rejecting them out of hand?

For all of your bluster and complaining about the way people treat you and your concerns, you could help yourself out and improve the quality of these discussions quite a lot by slowing down, reading people's questions, -treating them with as much seriousness as you want extended to your own comments- and answering them with some amount of detail, instead of constantly getting your hackles up any time somebody disagrees with you.

You may not realize this, but for most of us here, arguing politics on the internet is kind of a hobby and we've all been doing it a long time. We've heard all of your arguments before. They're not new. I'd wager that most of us understand your position better than you do and we're no more convinced by your articulation of it than we were by those preceding you.

 

[ralliann]

I'm not dismissing people who disagree with me. I'm dismissing (or in this case, questioning) arguments that don't appear to make any sense.



Tell me, when people ask you questions and you ignore them, only to go on another barely-relevant rant, do you think that's taking other people's concerns seriously? Or do you think that's dismissing them and rejecting them out of hand?

For all of your bluster and complaining about the way people treat you and your concerns, you could help yourself out and improve the quality of these discussions quite a lot by slowing down, reading people's questions, -treating them with as much seriousness as you want extended to your own comments- and answering them with some amount of detail, instead of constantly getting your hackles up any time somebody disagrees with you.

You may not realize this, but for most of us here, arguing politics on the internet is kind of a hobby and we've all been doing it a long time. We've heard all of your arguments before. They're not new. I'd wager that most of us understand your position better than you do and we're no more convinced by your articulation of it than we were by those preceding you.

You know what, again ignoring the public spoken of in this thread.
You singled parents out from "community" in an attempt to single "parents" as distinct from that community, as if schools and employees and the community were one and the same. Then it was repeated again with a synonymous term of "tax payers" as if Parents were distinct from "Tax payers" as if Schools and employees were one and the same with the "tax payers". The Same is done with the synonymous term of "public" as if Parents were distinct from the "Public" and of course the "public schools" one and the same as the "public".

The same arguments simply put in different terms, as if the discussion is moving along
All this came up in response to posts here. Now.....it is complaints about me again. As I said you can't reason with those that refuse to.

The very same thing is done with trans-gender issues, and socialization. They become synonymous as if we have moved the discussion along and it has not....

 

[BCP1928]

Oh, now "we" have something to do with this? Post 97 to arrive at what this thread is about, which quite frankly has been denied until this 97th thread.

What problems do you want to bring to this thread? Academics? It is not the focus, rather just another factor, in a broken system.

All I'm saying is that academics are a problem, and moving away from the "trans agenda" and the "attitude" you think gives rise to it will not necessarily fix academics.