School Choice’s Texas-Size Victory

[iluvatar5150]

Don't tell me what I know! Nobody subsidized my children, and NOBODY is subsidizing mine. What does this alarm you???? I will tell you what it is....It is a christian SCHOOL DISTRICT that was formed. Brilliant.

Ok, then tell me what you do know. How big were the class sizes? How many teachers or other instructors were there per class? How many administrators and other support staff were there in the school? What did the teachers get paid? Were the staff all volunteer?

Because I don't see how a school can charge $1200/kid and be financially self-sufficient unless loads of people are giving away their labor (which is, itself, a form of subsidy).

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[ralliann]

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About me and what I am telling you.....

Ok, then tell me what you do know. How big were the class sizes? How many teachers or other instructors were there per class? How many administrators and other support staff were there in the school? What did the teachers get paid? Were the staff all volunteer?

Because I don't see how a school can charge $1200/kid and be financially self-sufficient unless loads of people are giving away their labor (which is, itself, a form of subsidy).



lol, what, pray tell, am I lying about?

As I said, it a scholl district that was formed. Various churches used the spaces they had, and Formed a district here in my area. About 8-9 years ago they built their first JR HIGH.
My daughter does want to move her child to another school because class size is getting high and she does not like that. She spoke to one of the good friend her son (eldest) went to school with from grade school. The friend transferred so she is seriously considering it.
There are ways, with the way things currently are. there can be a lot of change when the general public rises up to change legislation.
Do you think your attitude towards "YOUR KIDS" parents is healthy for them? Do you think they don't know it? sense it? Sure they certainly do.
As a parent, Christian or otherwise, do you think we want you for an example of what they are to be? Arrogant, rude, disrespectsul and deceitful to those whom they disagree? That is the qualities you are showing them. Nobody should want those qualities emulated to Children. Nobody. Let alone towards a parent, in their lives.....

 

[ralliann]

Ok, then tell me what you do know. How big were the class sizes? How many teachers or other instructors were there per class? How many administrators and other support staff were there in the school? What did the teachers get paid? Were the staff all volunteer?

Because I don't see how a school can charge $1200/kid and be financially self-sufficient unless loads of people are giving away their labor (which is, itself, a form of subsidy).



lol, what, pray tell, am I lying about?

I do apologize, she pays 3200 amonth, for two kids. Gets a discount for two. I must have been thinking of my own costs years ago. Still good, and the other one she is looking at, is distinct from the particular Christian schools. So no heavily subsidizing nor heavy difference between my mistake and what she pays, but a bit more yes. But the Churches around here are very keen on this stuff. I know when my kids were in the school, the parents were class help taking turns, at grade school level. We did have jr high, but it was small space. So finally later (daughter no longer attended) they built there own jr high, independant of Church buildings. My daughters boys go in a building which used to be a small public school. So they have been expanding beyond Church buildings. They grew alot over covid.
At the school she is looking into, if she pays up front it really is not that far off from what I originally gave. A significant discount for that.

 

[iluvatar5150]

About me and what I am telling you.....

I haven't lied about you or anything you've said. I have made assumptions based on the things you've said - and it's possible that some of those assumptions are incorrect. But nowhere have I knowingly said anything that was false. I'll add, too, that you have yet to show how anything I've said was incorrect.

As I said, it a scholl district that was formed. Various churches used the spaces they had, and Formed a district here in my area. About 8-9 years ago they built their first JR HIGH.
My daughter does want to move her child to another school because class size is getting high and she does not like that. She spoke to one of the good friend her son (eldest) went to school with from grade school. The friend transferred so she is seriously considering it.

Ok, that's great. That sounds like a nice way of doing things, but it answers ...checks... none of my questions. Zero.

If you want to undermine my claim that the tuition was heavily subsidized, you have to talk about the expenses that the school incurred. You haven't done that. I asked questions that offered you the opportunity to do so, but you ignored them.

Do you think your attitude towards "YOUR KIDS" parents is healthy for them? Do you think they don't know it? sense it? Sure they certainly do.
As a parent, Christian or otherwise, do you think we want you for an example of what they are to be? Arrogant, rude, disrespectsul and deceitful to those whom they disagree? That is the qualities you are showing them. Nobody should want those qualities emulated to Children. Nobody. Let alone towards a parent, in their lives.....

You know what's also "arrogant, rude, and disrespectful"? Calling people "liars" when all they've done is disagree with you or point out things that you may have missed. Going on a conspiratorial rant every time somebody points out a flaw in your argument. Failing to answer simple, direct questions that people pose to you on a message board whose entire purpose is being a forum for debate.

I do apologize, she pays 3200 amonth, for two kids.

That makes more sense. Based on the way you worded your reply, I assumed you meant $1200/yr, not $1200/mo.

$1600/mo * 10 mo/yr (assuming the tuition isn't annualized across 12 months) == $16000/yr/kid.

 

[ralliann]

I haven't lied about you or anything you've said. I have made assumptions based on the things you've said - and it's possible that some of those assumptions are incorrect.

Thank you for that consideration that what you said migh tnot have been true.....

But nowhere have I knowingly said anything that was false. I'll add, too, that you have yet to show how anything I've said was incorrect.



Ok, that's great. That sounds like a nice way of doing things, but it answers ...checks... none of my questions. Zero.

If you want to undermine my claim that the tuition was heavily subsidized, you have to talk about the expenses that the school incurred. You haven't done that. I asked questions that offered you the opportunity to do so, but you ignored them.

I have no idea of their expenses. All I know is what it cost me. So I know it does not have to be that way. I don't need anything more than that. So, think me pulling your leg. They did it, my kids went there, my grand kids went there. My sisters daughter went there, and it was excellent education. We had a business we sold go belly up, we had to take it back over and attempt to pull it out we could not afford it any more.

You know what's also "arrogant, rude, and disrespectful"? Calling people "liars" when all they've done is disagree with you or point out things that you may have missed. Going on a conspiratorial rant every time somebody points out a flaw in your argument. Failing to answer simple, direct questions that people pose to you on a message board whose entire purpose is being a forum for debate.

I simply know it can be done because it was, and is being done. I d not need to convince you? And it is not rude arrogant or anything else to say that. I just simply don't need to find out all this stuff for you.

That makes more sense. Based on the way you worded your reply, I assumed you meant $1200/yr, not $1200/mo.

Well no, I must have paid that, or my daughters payments have increased since the boys have been in school. One is going into 6th grade next year so it has had a few years to increase for her. But 1200 a month was stuck in my brain somehow. I do know since Covid, kids have been pouring into the school.

$1600/mo * 10 mo/yr (assuming the tuition isn't annualized across 12 months) == $16000/yr/kid.

No, I am pretty sure just the months of session.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If everyone had school choice, spaces previously "public" would become emptied in equal amounts of those that choose other. Why would previously "Public" building space remain empty being off limits? Think about that. It is simply space for education. To make it simple, A "public" school with space for 1000 students, 800 leave to school choice, why would the building be used for 200 students? Let those 200 students move to a smaller location, as well as the transportation do the same? Why would one keep a building that is wasted space? Leave transportation unused? It could very well come to this scenario...

Thank you for the confirmation that this is just an attempt to gain control of public education by the various religions including the money and the buildings.

 

[KCfromNC]

Free so take it? Don't be insulting. Even if free, (wasn't a bald face lie, school choice will take our tax money to follow the child), But nobody takes whatever is really free no matter what it is...

I guess nitpicking about the specifics of word choice in my post would be one way to avoid addressing the actual point of it.

 

[KCfromNC]

School choice. It is our money...

It is everyone's money, not just the people who have school aged children making the decision on where to send their kids for an education. The money everyone pays in taxes goes to fund, in part, public schools. Just because a family both pays taxes for public schools and has school aged children doesn't mean they get to take money which is earmarked for public education and use it for private schools instead.

So school choice in this case is take advantage of public schools funded by taxpayer dollars. Or if that isn't palatable, pay out of pocket for a different option.

 

[KCfromNC]

I sent two of my children to private Christian school for two years of so, one of the two did not attend public until 4th grade. It was nowhere near that. My daughter sends two children to the same School. She pays 1200 each tops.

Seems totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand - unless the goal is to funnel thousands of public dollars per month into private religious organizations.

 

[KCfromNC]

What if they feel that that free education is not a good education and/or not what is best for their particular children?

Then they can choose to enroll their child somewhere else. But they, like everyone else without children in public school, don't get their tax dollars refunded if they choose not to take advantage of public education.

Giving people refunds on public services they don't use would be a book-keeping nightmare. I didn't drive on this set of roads so I get a % of gas tax refunded, and I only visited 5% of national parks for 3% of the year, so I get more money back, and so on and so forth. No possible way to keep up with that, which is why we have the system we do.

That is different than saying I do not agree with what is taught (although oftentimes that is a reason that parents have a problem with the public school system, but it is not always the only one.

That's nice.

 

[ralliann]

It is everyone's money, not just the people who have school aged children making the decision on where to send their kids for an education.

That's right. It is for kids to be educated.

The money everyone pays in taxes goes to fund, in part, public schools. Just because a family both pays taxes for public schools and has school aged children doesn't mean they get to take money which is earmarked for public education and use it for private schools instead.

Well, how what percentage of the tax payers are happy with what they are paying for? They will decide what that money is and is not ear marked for. Schools are failing in academics, now they are pushing the trans activist agenda on kids. How many object to this?

So school choice in this case is take advantage of public schools funded by taxpayer dollars. Or if that isn't palatable, pay out of pocket for a different option.

In this case Failing schools, now transexualism, and all it brings with it. Those Trans gender activists in Public school speak as though they speak for the taxpayers, and parents merely speak for themselves. Religion, Has nothing to do with this. Tax payers are not happy with failing schools, and now this. Trans activists in the public schools can quote laws, speak as if all those taxpayers support them. As though they represent them. They don't. This is what the thread is about.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Vouchers are not going to pay a full private tuition and there is only so many spaces per school (private or charter) anyway. The assumption that all students can just “purchase” a space at a different school is not feasible. Parents with more money can fill the gap between the voucher and private tuition. They are also freer to transport their children outside of walking or bus distance. Students left to the local public schools because they don’t have another option will be in schools that are increasingly underfunded as vouchers drain needed funds.

You are still left in the same spot because in wealthier areas parents STILL have more options and such parents are more likely to be able to afford to support the schools both with money and otherwise. The reality is money makes problems go away sometimes that is OK sometimes it is just plain no fair.

So you are saying that the vouchers do not cover the whole cost? I understand that that may not be fair, but I stand by the fact that parents should not be stuck in public schools when their kids could preform better elsewhere simply because they do not have money. Think of this way if the students preform better then they may have a better chance of improving their situation as adult something that most parents want anyway



Even with my personal example were we blessed certainly does that mean that my parents were wrong that I got to benefit from the fact that they could afford to redshirt me before sending me to public school? Remember, it takes money to afford to redshirt if you do it before the kid starts school probably not as much as it would cost to go private, but money nonetheless for one parent to either afford to stay home or to pay for that additional year of childcare, as generally you cannot attend state funded more than once.

 

[ralliann]

You are still left in the same spot because in wealthier areas parents STILL have more options and such parents are more likely to be able to afford to support the schools both with money and otherwise. The reality is money makes problems go away sometimes that is OK sometimes it is just plain no fair.

So you are saying that the vouchers do not cover the whole cost? I understand that that may not be fair, but I stand by the fact that parents should not be stuck in public schools when their kids could preform better elsewhere simply because they do not have money. Think of this way if the students preform better then they may have a better chance of improving their situation as adult something that most parents want anyway



Even with my personal example were we blessed certainly does that mean that my parents were wrong that I got to benefit from the fact that they could afford to redshirt me before sending me to public school? Remember, it takes money to afford to redshirt if you do it before the kid starts school probably not as much as it would cost to go private, but money nonetheless for one parent to either afford to stay home or to pay for that additional year of childcare, as generally you cannot attend state funded more than once.

The thing is, trans activists in public schools appear to be convinced the tax payers support them, and they speak for them. I believe there is good reason to believe this is not true.
1. Nobody voted for this, rather tax payers (parents or other guardians of these students) merely have become aware of it
2. Secrecy, actively keeping the parents ( larger community of tax payers become aware) in ignorance, keeping it within the schools, outside of tax payers awarness

 

[KCfromNC]

That's right. It is for kids to be educated.

In the public schools those tax dollars fund.

Well, how what percentage of the tax payers are happy with what they are paying for? They will decide what that money is and is not ear marked for. Schools are failing in academics, now they are pushing the trans activist agenda on kids. How many object to this?

Yeah, we know it's all about the evil trans agenda. At least this week. Who knows what Fox News is going to make up next week to rile up low information voter outrage?

 

[ralliann]

In the public schools those tax dollars fund.



Yeah, we know it's all about the evil trans agenda. At least this week. Who knows what Fox News is going to make up next week to rile up low information voter outrage?

Blame anybody but activist agendas, schools have taken up for themselves. Public funds is a moot point, especially in this thread, as is Fox news. Obviously activists do not really care about the funds of the public when it does not support their latest moral demands.

 

[BCP1928]

Blame anybody but activist agendas, schools have taken up for themselves. Public funds is a moot point, especially in this thread, as is Fox news. Obviously activists do not really care about the funds of the public when it does not support their latest moral demands.

How important is this "trans-activist agenda" in contributing to the poor performance of the schools? To listen to the horror stories about how kids spend their days in schools one would think that they spent their days sitting around learning how to be LGBT instead of learning reading and math, but I don't see this happening in any of the public schools where I live, and I don't see any serious analysis from the voucher crowd, On the other hand, there are serious problems in the public schools with known causes which are not being addressed, and I don't see how a voucher system will fix them. Indeed, of they are not addressed, they may even follow kids into voucher schools.

 

[Desk trauma]

On the other hand, there are serious problems in the public schools with known causes which are not being addressed, and I don't see how a voucher system will fix them

It’s not meant to fix the issues with public schools, it’s a shoot the wounded policy.

 

[BCP1928]

It’s not meant to fix the issues with public schools, it’s a shoot the wounded policy.

The trouble is, if you ignore the real problems with the public schools there is no guarantee that at least some of them will not be unwittingly replicated in voucher schools.

 

[ralliann]

How important is this "trans-activist agenda" in contributing to the poor performance of the schools?

I have no clue. I would say, it is "ATTITUDE", connected to these radicals more than anything. Transgender is simply a product of that.. In my opinion to point to the manifestations of an attitude alone is not addressing the root and source of problems in schools and the larger society, we see being manifested as a product of Schools.

To listen to the horror stories about how kids spend their days in schools one would think that they spent their days sitting around learning how to be LGBT instead of learning reading and math, but I don't see this happening in any of the public schools where I live, and I don't see any serious analysis from the voucher crowd, On the other hand, there are serious problems in the public schools with known causes which are not being addressed, and I don't see how a voucher system will fix them. Indeed, of they are not addressed, they may even follow kids into voucher schools.

Schools were failing long before this issue came to the forefront. This thread is about the public, not wanting this in their schools. Yet it is attitudes of supporters of this activism as public employees, pretending they are that public. That is the product of a cultural problem based on an attitude. Not at all good for children, Not good for society as a whole, to look up to, nor to be influenced by to emulate, as a superior morality above everyone else. This is the Source of problem in my opinion

 

[ralliann]

The trouble is, if you ignore the real problems with the public schools there is no guarantee that at least some of them will not be unwittingly replicated in voucher schools.

Move to another school. If all schools offering a basic education are Public no need for a voucher. Just have Schools that do not add on these social agendas, and things will work themselves out. It would be what education used to be in the first place. Social problems can be dealt with through another system.....like it should.