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Salvation Army and Baptism

Discussion in 'Cyber Corps - Salvation Army' started by lawndartboy, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. lawndartboy

    lawndartboy Newbie

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    I have a quick question, why dont the salvation army baptize christians?
    Mark 16:16 (King James Version)


    16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Not only is this practice contrary to scripture but also to even the most basic understanding of orthodoxy (right worship/practice) in christian history, some thoughts?
     
  2. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee CF Ambassadors CF Ambassador

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    I was going to start a thread asking if Salvationists baptise people nowadays, but since this thread was already here I will read along instead. Thanks :)

    PS: I don't want any negativity attached to my question. All I want to know is "Does the Salvation Army baptise its members?"
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2011
  3. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    sAalvationists belive that sacramentals became uneccesary the moment jesus died on the cross.

    The most a sacrament can be is a symbol
    Meaningful symbols can very easily become meaningless rituals
    Sacraments can't change the heart and life of a person - that can only happen through faith in Jesus Christ
    Jesus did not intend to create any sacramental ceremonies and there is little or nothing in the Bible to support sacraments
    Sacraments have proved divisive in Christian history
    Sacraments are an element of Christianity that may obstruct the conversion of those who have abandoned more formal churches

    The Army has its own ceremony for becoming a member of the church (a Soldier) - the equivalent of baptism or confirmation - but the army ceremony does not involve water and is not sacramental.
    The Army does not ban Salvationists from getting baptised in another church if they wish to do so.
     
  4. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee CF Ambassadors CF Ambassador

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    Is baptism discouraged?
     
  5. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    No.

    This is why I like the Salvation Army. I have felt uncomfortable at other churches, with silly rituals and hang ups over different things.
     
  6. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee CF Ambassadors CF Ambassador

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    Do you have any information on what proportion of Salvationists are baptised?
     
  7. HisHomeMaker

    HisHomeMaker Reading the Bible in 2011. Join me!

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    Some people hold the rituals of worship dear and don't think they are silly at all.
     
  8. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    Silly was probally not the right word to have used.

    I just don't see them as a neccesary part of my walk with Christ in the Christian Faith.
     
  9. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    No I do not, sorry.

    However the Salvation Army has two forms of church membership.

    Salvationists wear uniform and adhere to the doctrines of the Salvation Army and also abstain from tobacco and Alchohol.

    Adherent members do not wear uniform and are permited to Smoke and consume alchohol.

    It might be a small number of Salvationists that are baptised. Where as many adherents are often baptized having been members of other churches.
     
  10. HisHomeMaker

    HisHomeMaker Reading the Bible in 2011. Join me!

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    :thumbsup: Thank you.

    I am Anglican, but I have a lot of respect and admiration for the Salvation Army in my community. I may try attending some services to learn more. I will be volunteering for a service project with them.
     
  11. SteveNZ

    SteveNZ Adventurer for my King

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    I have shared similar elsewhere.

    I was brought up Salvation Army. I do not attend now simply because we shifted home to a part of town there was no Sallies. So found a Godfearing local church.

    I have been baptised.
    And for myself it was an important social symbol/statement to show my commitment.

    I think the Sallies should baptise folk who wish to do so. The symbol is important and scriptural. In my understanding it is not a requirement to be 'saved' (we are baptised with the Holy Spirit) but socially an important statement.

    I can see that a Sally going into uniform is effectively making a similar social statement BUT the symbol identified in the bible and understood by society is to myself the better option.
     
  12. Jeffersonian

    Jeffersonian Soli Deo Gloria

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    this sounds like ''rituals'' to me. i don't really get why you have to call baptism a ritual and then refer to at as if is something that doesn't matter anymore but i think your church takes pretty serious the uniform. a little contradiction?

    enlight me please.:)
     
  13. Christian Warrior

    Christian Warrior Warrior

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    yea, we do take the uniform way too seriously, I like to show up on sundays in my workout clothes just to make a statement and everyone always makes a big deal "Where is your soldier uniform" lol, I tell them I didnt feel like ironing it and tell them that the uniform doesnt make me a soldier for christ.
     
  14. Amisk

    Amisk Senior Member

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    While Mark records Christ's teaching with the verses: "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16: 15-16

    If converts have to be baptized inorder to be saved, then not too many believers are born again, since most churches push "only believe". The word baptism in our age is only heard by the Charismatic in relationship to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, a doctrine that has replaced importance of Salvation, Baptism, and Holy living.

    The question quickly arises if Baptism by water bears equal importance with repentance then what happens to the thief on the cross, and the man or woman who has a death bed experience? Do we join the Catholic Church on baptizing the dead?

    To my knowledge Baptism is only given this importance in regard to salvation here in Mark.

    Old Time Nazarene preachers where often heard to warn that the baptizing of a man who was not truly converted was to lower a dry sinner into the water and bring him up a wet one. They also often mentioned that Baptism was an expression of faith, an outward declaration of an inward work, which is likely the meaning of Mark’s comments here.
     
  15. Searching_for_Christ

    Searching_for_Christ simul justus et peccator

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    I'm confused about where you get the idea that baptism wasn't needed after Christs death...especially when you find baptism in acts, obviously the apostles felt differently. Explenation?
     
  16. paulnoel

    paulnoel Grace and peace be yours in abundance!!!

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    Paul
     
  17. paulnoel

    paulnoel Grace and peace be yours in abundance!!!

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    The military metaphor of the Army has a long history in Christianity which sees the Church engaged in spiritual warfare. It was used in both the Old and the New Testaments of the Bible and many Christian writings and hymns use military imagery.


    The Army uses military features such as uniforms, flags and ranks to identify, inspire and regulate its activities.
    Booth's wife Catherine put it like this:


    "Soldiers of Christ must be abandoned to the war. They must be thoroughly committed to God's side; there can be no neutrals in this warfare.
    When the soldier enlists and takes the Queen's shilling, he ceases to be his own property, becoming the property of his country, going where he is sent, standing at any post to which he is assigned, even if it be at the cannon's mouth. He gives up the ways and comforts of civilians and goes forth with his life in his hand, in obedience to the will of his sovereign.
    If I understand it, that is just what Jesus Christ demands of every one of his soldiers, and nothing less".
    Catherine Booth
    Sacraments

    Unlike other Christian churches the Salvation Army does not recognise any sacraments, such as baptism or communion, as essential.
    The Army does not teach that sacraments are wrong, but it believes that they are unnecessary, and may be unhelpful to some.
    Early Salvationists were concerned that many Christians had become too attached to rituals as outward signs of spiritual grace. The Salvation Army places the emphasis on personal faith and on a spiritual relationship with God which doesn't depend on anything external.
    Modern day Salvationists avoid sacraments for the following reasons:

    • The most a sacrament can be is a symbol
    • Meaningful symbols can very easily become meaningless rituals
    • Sacraments can't change the heart and life of a person - that can only happen through faith in Jesus Christ
    • Jesus did not intend to create any sacramental ceremonies and there is little or nothing in the Bible to support sacraments
    • Sacraments have proved divisive in Christian history
    • Sacraments are an element of Christianity that may obstruct the conversion of those who have abandoned more formal churches

    If You want more info on the history of the Salvation Army Check this out.

    The Salvation Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hope this helps
    Paul
     
  18. Gibson

    Gibson Guest

    I use to go to the Salvation Army but have left a few years ago and now go to an Alliance church. Some of the theories of the Salvation Army I don't believe in anymore...like this one, baptism. I don't understand why they don't want to baptize people the way they do it in the Bible. I've now been baptized a couple years ago at the current church I go to now.

    I was in uniform as well when I was at the Salvation Army and I too found that people would take it way too seriously! I mean, come on people...it's just a uniform. Where in the Bible does it say 'if you don't wear this uniform, your not a Christian?' you don't need to wear a uniform to say that your a Christian. I would wear shorts or something a lot of the time instead of my uniform and would get lectured about it way too much.

    I also didn't like the sermons/preachers...they aren't very good at preaching. I hear their training college isn't even an actual Bible college...where other churches you have to do many years in schooling, training college is only for 2yrs? and whatever they preached on, never really made sense and never related to me...and alot of people agreed with me on that one who went to that church with me but they still go which is nothing wrong with that.

    I did love most of the people though and still keep in touch with them from time to time, especially the people around my age we still hang out. in fact, the other day I went to a sports game with a few of them and I'll visit that church from time to time especially if they're holding concerts and such but I really felt God telling me to leave the Army and now I go to a pretty awesome church, where I don't have to wear a uniform...haha and better teaching!
     
  19. crcoopertx

    crcoopertx Newbie

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    I believe that the baptism spoken of in Mark 16 is baptism in the Holy Spirit which takes place in all believers the moment we are saved. Water baptism is seen more as a public declaration of faith. Not wishing to speak for the SA here but that is what I have been taught and my study of the scripture supports those beliefs. My Corps Officers have encouraged Soldiers to seek a out a church for water baptism if they feel strongly about doing it.
     
  20. lawndartboy

    lawndartboy Newbie

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    Just so you are aware, the early church did not believe this, they believed that baptism was an essential part of a persons salvation and membership to Christs holy church. The new testament and the early patristic wrightings in the 1st and 2nd century show that this was universally accepted as orthodox belief in Christ.
     
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