Salvation Army and Baptism

lawndartboy

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Was anyone water baptized on the day of Pentecost?

I am glad you asked, yes they were!

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off —for all whom the Lord our God will call.” With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
 
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lawndartboy

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Baptism and being a Christian go hand in hand, it is only since a few hundred years after the protestant reformation that anyone thought any differently based on rationalist principles of reductionism rather than faith that was handed down through the church. Even Luther and Calvin, the fathers of protestantism, would not have accepted the idea of baptism being an optional practice based on personal conviction.
 
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greatdivide46

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  1. Where in the passage from acts does it specify water baptism?
  2. Could the baptism mentioned not refer to baptism by the holy spirit?

It doesn't have to specify water baptism since baptism by definition is water baptism. The only time it's not is when the passages specify some other type of baptism (i.e., baptism with the Holy Spirit). If there is no qualifier then baptism means baptism in water.


The baptism in this passage could not be refering to baptism by the Holy Spirit because it was administered by men.
 
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lawndartboy

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It doesn't have to specify water baptism since baptism by definition is water baptism. The only time it's not is when the passages specify some other type of baptism (i.e., baptism with the Holy Spirit). If there is no qualifier then baptism means baptism in water.


The baptism in this passage could not be refering to baptism by the Holy Spirit because it was administered by men.

Does 'Baptism' mean immersion only?
If in doubt
 
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Pamelav

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Must still be recooperating from the weekend. ; P

I wanted to comment on what someone said about the preachers not being good. Our preacher preaches good relative messages form the bible into today. Also, we have had two women preach int he last 8 months and they were even better! I have a luthern, ucc, and aog church attendance to compare that too, and have found them up at the top in giving a good sermon!
 
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Amisk

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I have been told by a retired officer that William Booth did believe in baptism, but his son who led the Army later was the one who decided that baptism was not needed. Yet Jesus didn't agree for he declared: Mark 16:15 KJV that one was to be baptized.

The truth is if you are baptized without having confessed your sin, you merely go into the water a dry sinner and come up a wet one. Still Jesus made baptism manatory according to Peter's quotation to John Mark.
 
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Amisk

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No I do not, sorry.

However the Salvation Army has two forms of church membership.

Salvationists wear uniform and adhere to the doctrines of the Salvation Army and also abstain from tobacco and Alchohol.

Adherent members do not wear uniform and are permited to Smoke and consume alchohol.

It might be a small number of Salvationists that are baptised. Where as many adherents are often baptized having been members of other churches.


Where is it expressed in SA doctrine that adherents are permitted to use alcohol or tobacco.

It would seem to me that it would be a foolish thing for the army to accept the use of alcohol among its ranks since the SA deals with alcoholics more than any other denomination.

It is common knowledge that a man or woman who has given up alcohol and then takes even one glass begins the fight with the bottle all over again. The same is true of most smokers and drug users as well.

I know that like most Evangelical denominations the Army is leaning more and more to liberalism, but I hardly see them accept alcohol when a good percentage of those they have helped in the past are prime canidates for re-starting down skid-row again with just one weak moment and one drink.
 
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TrueSBHLove2012

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Okay. First I ask, who is to administer Baptism? From my limited knowledge only certain God called individuals could. Did Jesus himself ever baptise? Seeing as how the answer is no, this is where the grand debate started. If we are to be like Jesus, then our teachings must be in form with Him. Since he never baptised, why should someone claiming to follow him have to do it? Yes the argument can be made "Well Jesus was baptised by John." But if you look carefully when offered the chance to batpise another Jesus did not, because he knew he must follow the prophecies. So. We say repent and be baptized by the Holy Spirit, be washed not by droplets of water, but by the blood of the Risen Lamb. Just my two cents on that one.

As for the post above me. And adherent is someone who understands the Salvation Army Doctrines, wants to live by the Doctrines, but still want to partake in alcohol and tobacco. What church turns someone away from being a member and being a part because they smoke or drink? That would be wrong.

So the Army came up with a solution, for those who still want to do that, and not follow the Articles of War (which is what any Sr. Soldier must sign in order to be a member, which states not using harmful drugs, intoxicating drink, or tobacco) they have a different name.

Yes, the Army helps the destitute, those who struggle with addictions (more narcotis, just to inform you). That does not mean that allowing someone who smokes from time to time, or likes to enjoy a beer is unwelcome.

And this whole uniform thing. Yes, Army folk do need to lighten up. If you are not an essential part of the days meeting (IE, preaching, reading scripture, Songster, Bandsmen) you are not required nor do you have too.
 
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greatdivide46

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Okay. First I ask, who is to administer Baptism? From my limited knowledge only certain God called individuals could. Did Jesus himself ever baptise? Seeing as how the answer is no, this is where the grand debate started. If we are to be like Jesus, then our teachings must be in form with Him. Since he never baptised, why should someone claiming to follow him have to do it? Yes the argument can be made "Well Jesus was baptised by John." But if you look carefully when offered the chance to batpise another Jesus did not, because he knew he must follow the prophecies. So. We say repent and be baptized by the Holy Spirit, be washed not by droplets of water, but by the blood of the Risen Lamb. Just my two cents on that one.
There are a lot of thing that Jesus never did that we are supposed to do. Besides if we are to follow Jesus example of being baptized then someone has to do the baptizing. Baptism cannot be done solo. Even Jesus didn't baptize Himself.
 
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Pamelav

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Where is it expressed in SA doctrine that adherents are permitted to use alcohol or tobacco.

It would seem to me that it would be a foolish thing for the army to accept the use of alcohol among its ranks since the SA deals with alcoholics more than any other denomination.

It is common knowledge that a man or woman who has given up alcohol and then takes even one glass begins the fight with the bottle all over again. The same is true of most smokers and drug users as well.

I know that like most Evangelical denominations the Army is leaning more and more to liberalism, but I hardly see them accept alcohol when a good percentage of those they have helped in the past are prime canidates for re-starting down skid-row again with just one weak moment and one drink.


I don't know where you are getting your ideas from, but first, there is two kinds of 'membership'. You may just show up and you can drink and smoke if you want to, but if you become an official member and get the uniform to wear you take an oath that you will not drink, smoke, whatever else in on there.

Becoming liberal? Well, the last two officers we had are far from liberal and take what the bible says literally.
 
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Pamelav

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And also, since God called them to that position, they must adhere to not baptizing, which, yes, in the Word. Strange thing it is. The current officers (wife) used to go to an assembly of God, but she said God called her to this. Gotta go where He sends you. I strongly believe the SA is an institution planted by God, but why on earth the son had to take out baptism is definitily an odd thing, and even that it didn't get put back in after his departure. Obviously it doesnt nullify ones salvation tho, as someone on there death bed can repent and ask Jesus forgivness and everything often dont get that chance to be baptised.
 
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J

JoshuaCh1v9

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Ok. Adherents.

Adherency is simply recognising The Salvation Army as your church. You are making a commitment to it, both in terms of worship, and in terms of financial support.

However, it carries no restrictions in terms of alcohol or tobacco. The Salvationist only promises to abstain from these things when they sign the Articles of War and become a soldier. The Salvationist who seves as an adherent makes no such commitments. Nor is adherency some kind of second class Salvationism. Most people will know of Salvationists who have never worn a uniform in their lives yet do some of the most vital (an usually unseen) work in the Corps.

I won't talk about Baptism here, as that has been covered already. Except to say that, AFAIK, Salvationists are not prevented from being Baptised elsewhere if they feel that is Gods will for their lives.
 
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Water Walker

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I won't talk about Baptism here, as that has been covered already. Except to say that, AFAIK, Salvationists are not prevented from being Baptised elsewhere if they feel that is Gods will for their lives.

Good day sir ...it seems that the Army is struggling with this baptism and communion more often then not.
Our last General made the Officers that were graduating sign a paper saying they would not baptize or preform communion either. Sadly our officer did being young and not know the scriptures well.
Lately the Army is having issues filling the Officer ranks with newbies...only 7 in the last session? Not enough to take care of those retiring.
I believe it is time to get off the pot and reexamine the scripture in regards to these topics and others.
I put it to you that it may not be happening at the upper ranks but it is in the lower ranks hence the falling off of Officers and memberships.
Don't even get me going about the back tracking on things like Holiness and what is included the the extras that Soldiers sign onto when becoming Soldiers.
 
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JoshuaCh1v9

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Good day sir ...it seems that the Army is struggling with this baptism and communion more often then not.
Our last General made the Officers that were graduating sign a paper saying they would not baptize or preform communion either. Sadly our officer did being young and not know the scriptures well.
Lately the Army is having issues filling the Officer ranks with newbies...only 7 in the last session? Not enough to take care of those retiring.
I believe it is time to get off the pot and reexamine the scripture in regards to these topics and others.
I put it to you that it may not be happening at the upper ranks but it is in the lower ranks hence the falling off of Officers and memberships.
Don't even get me going about the back tracking on things like Holiness and what is included the the extras that Soldiers sign onto when becoming Soldiers.

I agree with you. I believe that there is a growing debate within the rank and file on the issue's of Baptism and Communion. Personally, I would be in favour of the Army re adopting these.

I also think that the Army WILL do this in time, but not any time soon.
 
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Water Walker

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I agree with you. I believe that there is a growing debate within the rank and file on the issue's of Baptism and Communion. Personally, I would be in favour of the Army re adopting these.

I also think that the Army WILL do this in time, but not any time soon.

I am sorry that we don't have people at the top that had a bit of guts and try to change things...the idea of having an Army system was to respond to thing faster I thought...I know here in Canada we have buried ourselves in and upper system of management that at times looks like our officers have to ask to go the bathroom.
 
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