Researchers Analyze 50 Years of Spanking Studies

Nithavela

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They relied in large part on reputation. Once a crack was shown others were more willing to engage them and they were unable to replace their numbers. They also feared corruption by outside influences so they failed to grow by trade or assimilation.

Sparta merely slowed down Persia at Thermopylae. The other famous battle, Marathon, where there was an actual Greek victory over Persia was Athens, not Sparta.

Nothing in Greece even came close to matching Rome. A wise man would ask why. Come to think of it some have already answered that.
The main reason was the difference in tactics. Rome relied on small units that could be moved indibidually and seize the initiative, while the greeks depended on the phalanx, which took ages to set up and could get broken easily. Also, the greeks attacked rome on it's home turf, and rome had reserves. There were of course other factors outside of the battlefield.
 
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Nithavela

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This is where I it gets iffy for me. I have a friend that helps people after they exit cults, or extreme groups...that type of thing.

They speak about the damage done more so from the language and overall environment and control as worse than the beatings - not spankings - they received.

People have different experiences, and what not. We shouldn't be telling them they are WRONG by requesting 'studies'. It minimizes their trauma.

We should respect people that feel spanking or in the above case of casting spells are both legitimate, and can't tell the person who experienced these things which is worse according to some study or other's opinions.

Studies can only go so far, and they don't speak for many people's experiences.
I wouldn't define paganism, wiccah et cetera as a cult. It has little to no hallmarks of a cult, like the isolation of it's members and the fixation on a single leader figure.
 
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Nithavela

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Fifty years? How about thousands of years of history concerning occult practices and the worship of false deities? Witchcraft, communing with spirits, pagan idolatry, spell casting, deification of nature, worship of the horned god, the right hand path, celebrating the sabbats, it is all fruit of the same poisonous tree.

Leading your child down this path:

My-Wiccan-Practice.jpg


Is far more dangerous and potentially destructive than a spanking done in an effort to actually teach right and wrong would ever be.
The path of standing in front of a table with burning candles?
 
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HannahT

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I wouldn't define paganism, wiccah et cetera as a cult. It has little to no hallmarks of a cult, like the isolation of it's members and the fixation on a single leader figure.

I didn't even mention paganism, etc. Nor was I referring to that either. I'm not even sure how that came up honestly.
 
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keith99

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No you extracted one line from my post and made a straw man blanket statement out of it. My post distinguished between abuse/ assault and spanking at the beginning. I then said government interference was not warranted in the case of the latter. As my later posts reinforce it is my view that breaking up families is more of a problem for society than are parental choices about how to discipline their children.

NO I replied to a completely over the top statement you made. My point was valid, your whole post reeks of the idea that parents know best and are somehow experts and that those without children are ignorant at best.

The truth is that all it takes to be a parent is the inability to control sexual impulses and to not take adequate provisions to prevent pregnancy. Especially among those under 25 or so becoming a parent is a sign of immaturity while remaining childless shows at least some measure of intelligence.

Parents magically know best is BS.
 
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Cearbhall

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NO I replied to a completely over the top statement you made. My point was valid, your whole post reeks of the idea that parents know best and are somehow experts and that those without children are ignorant at best.

The truth is that all it takes to be a parent is the inability to control sexual impulses and to not take adequate provisions to prevent pregnancy. Especially among those under 25 or so becoming a parent is a sign of immaturity while remaining childless shows at least some measure of intelligence.

Parents magically know best is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
A thousand Likes. :thumbsup:

If all it took were experience, we wouldn't need a foster care system, or mandatory reporters, or parenting classes, or so many other things.
 
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zephyrWiccan

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This is where I it gets iffy for me. I have a friend that helps people after they exit cults, or extreme groups...that type of thing.

They speak about the damage done more so from the language and overall environment and control as worse than the beatings - not spankings - they received.

People have different experiences, and what not. We shouldn't be telling them they are WRONG by requesting 'studies'. It minimizes their trauma.

We should respect people that feel spanking or in the above case of casting spells are both legitimate, and can't tell the person who experienced these things which is worse according to some study or other's opinions.

Studies can only go so far, and they don't speak for many people's experiences.
Wicca is not a cult. Or an "extreme group".

Now, there may well be some small cult out there that uses some Wiccan teachings. I've never heard of it but they may exist. But then so do cults that use some Christian teachings, like the Faith Healing cults, etc., and that doesn't make Christianity a cult.

Spanking is demonstrably and proveably harmful as seen by this study/meta-analysis of studies over 50 years.

No such thing can be said about Wiccanism.
 
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Sistrin

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So you don't have anything to support your claim. Gotcha.

You really are formulaic. As clearly stated, I have thousands of years of history on my side. Wicca is nothing new, it is an aspect of the occult which has been in practice for millennium simply given new name. Those here who imply superiority because they oppose spanking in any form, ask yourself if you believe this practice is potentially harmful to children:

DruidBoy_1500.jpg


This image is from a website dedicated to encouraging parents to involve their children in spell casting rituals and ceremonies, to include the Samhain Ancestor Rite. None of which, I am sure, could ever lead to anything bad.

Wicca is satanism lite:

9383231.jpg


But hey, lets not worry about the pure corruption of children, lets all be upset that somewhere someone might actually love their children enough to try and instill moral and behavioral value.
 
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Nithavela

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I didn't even mention paganism, etc. Nor was I referring to that either. I'm not even sure how that came up honestly.
Sistrin responded to a poster who identifies as a pagan. It was an ad hominem, ala' "well, beating your child might be bad, but your religion is worse". So you basically responded to a post decrying paganism and wiccah with "well, cults can be iffy".

Do you see the connection?
 
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HannahT

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Wicca is not a cult. Or an "extreme group".

Now, there may well be some small cult out there that uses some Wiccan teachings. I've never heard of it but they may exist. But then so do cults that use some Christian teachings, like the Faith Healing cults, etc., and that doesn't make Christianity a cult.

Spanking is demonstrably and proveably harmful as seen by this study/meta-analysis of studies over 50 years.

No such thing can be said about Wiccanism.

I never said anything about Wiccanism. Sigh. Show me where I EVER mentioned it? lol!
 
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zephyrWiccan

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You really are formulaic. As clearly stated, I have thousands of years of history on my side. Wicca is nothing new, it is an aspect of the occult which has been in practice for millennium simply given new name. Those here who imply superiority because they oppose spanking in any form, ask yourself if you believe this practice is potentially harmful to children:

DruidBoy_1500.jpg


This image is from a website dedicated to encouraging parents to involve their children in spell casting rituals and ceremonies, to include the Samhain Ancestor Rite. None of which, I am sure, could ever lead to anything bad.

Wicca is satanism lite.
So, again, you have nothing to support your claims. Gotcha.
 
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Nithavela

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You really are formulaic. As clearly stated, I have thousands of years of history on my side. Wicca is nothing new, it is an aspect of the occult which has been in practice for millennium simply given new name. Those here who imply superiority because they oppose spanking in any form, ask yourself if you believe this practice is potentially harmful to children:

DruidBoy_1500.jpg


This image is from a website dedicated to encouraging parents to involve their children in spell casting rituals and ceremonies, to include the Samhain Ancestor Rite. None of which, I am sure, could ever lead to anything bad.

Wicca is satanism lite.
Wow, no we've gone to children sitting on rocks in bath robes. To what depths can we sink further?
 
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zephyrWiccan

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I never said anything about Wiccanism. Sigh. Show me where I EVER mentioned it? lol!
You responded to Sinstrin (and then a poster who asked him to back up his claims with studies), who had responded to me and said that teaching my kids my religion was worse than spanking. And in said response to him, you rather clearly compared my religion -the topic of the post you responded to - to cults, etc..
 
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Nithavela

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Well, while we are on the subject of damaging children by making them take part in strange religious rituals...


Can I get a hallelujah?!
 
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HannahT

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You responded to Sinstrin (and then a poster who asked him to back up his claims with studies), who had responded to me and said that teaching my kids my religion was worse than spanking. And in said response to him, you rather clearly compared my religion -the topic of the post you responded to - to cults, etc..

I don't know about the back and forth you are talking about. Yet, if you could please cut and paste where I mentioned ANYTHING about your religion in this thread I would appreciate it. I'm being honest here, because I have NO idea what you are talking about.

I spoke about a friend that helps people exit cults, and that's all I said. I never mentioned any group at all. So, I don't see how I 'clearly' compared your religion to anything.

My point was - even anyone bothered to read it - was: Studies can only go so far, and they don't speak for many people's experiences.

Many of the ex cult members she dealt with state that their experiences within the cult - control, intimidation, etc was far worse to them then spanking.

How that relates to ANYONE'S religion in this thread is beyond me. It's their experiences and their statements. It has nothing to do with you - or anyone else.
 
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Tallguy88

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Interesting observation. A warrior culture or one of hand workers will teach its children that right and wrong have physical consequences with smacking. Because both cultures are essentially physically active and muscle memory is more important in such cultures. Put your hand in the machine and it will get chewed up. Put your head up over the parapet and you will get it blown off. Smack the child that reaches for the machine or does not behave carefully in a dangerous situation and he will keep his hand/life.

Office workers and lawyers live in a do not touch me culture when benefits and penalties are defined in different terms - money , status etc (but mainly physically abstract). If you are being trained to sit in front of a computer where the greatest risk is falling off your chair then smacking is a distracting irrelevance.
Interesting theory
 
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zephyrWiccan

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I don't know about the back and forth you are talking about. Yet, if you could please cut and paste where I mentioned ANYTHING about your religion in this thread I would appreciate it. I'm being honest here, because I have NO idea what you are talking about.

I spoke about a friend that helps people exit cults, and that's all I said. I never mentioned any group at all. So, I don't see how I 'clearly' compared your religion to anything.

My point was - even anyone bothered to read it - was: Studies can only go so far, and they don't speak for many people's experiences.

Many of the ex cult members she dealt with state that their experiences within the cult - control, intimidation, etc was far worse to them then spanking.

How that relates to ANYONE'S religion in this thread is beyond me. It's their experiences and their statements. It has nothing
to do with you - or anyone else.
If you say you did not intend to compare my religion to these cults, okay, I'll accept that. Maybe be more careful in reading the context behind what you are quoting, and in reading the quote itself more clearly before posting, because the clear imlications of your post was that you were talking about Sinstrin's attack on my religion with your cults statement. And as you can see, it's not just me that got that vibe from your post with its quote of sinstrin's post, others drew the same conclusion of you trying to compare paganism/wiccanism to cults. Especially when you said: "We should respect people that feel spanking or in the above case of casting spells are both legitimate, and can't tell the person who experienced these things which is worse according to some study or other's opinions."

Think more carefully about the implications of your words, I guess it the takeaway for you. I'll take you at your word here that you didn't mean to imply it, even though you did imply it in the way you posted.
 
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Cearbhall

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This image is from a website dedicated to encouraging parents to involve their children in spell casting rituals and ceremonies, to include the Samhain Ancestor Rite. None of which, I am sure, could ever lead to anything bad.
So in cases where it doesn't lead to anything bad, what's the problem? The slippery slope argument is way too weak for me to care.
Well, while we are on the subject of damaging children by making them take part in strange religious rituals...


Can I get a hallelujah?!
One viewing of that video was enough for me. Too sad.
 
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HannahT

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If you say you did not intend to compare my religion to these cults, okay, I'll accept that. Maybe be more careful in reading the context behind what you are quoting, and in reading the quote itself more clearly before posting, because the clear imlications of your post was that you were talking about Sinstrin's attack on my religion with your cults statement. And as you can see, it's not just me that got that vibe from your post with its quote of sinstrin's post, others drew the same conclusion of you trying to compare paganism/wiccanism to cults. Especially when you said: "We should respect people that feel spanking or in the above case of casting spells are both legitimate, and can't tell the person who experienced these things which is worse according to some study or other's opinions."

Think more carefully about the implications of your words, I guess it the takeaway for you. I'll take you at your word here that you didn't mean to imply it, even though you did imply it in the way you posted.

I tied two different quotes, and nothing else - which was a banter between two other posters. I was referencing the quotes only. You see the quotes were the context.

Additional context?

The fact that I brought up my friend that does exit cult stuff - and mentioned what her clients state? THEN went on to mention each individual has their own circumstance and feelings about what is worse? Studies can't define that for them. How we need to respect both points of view, and how studies can't define that for individuals that lived them.

All that is context.

You jumped to conclusions, and made assumptions about me and what I said. The last part of the sentence still rings true - you can't tell a person who experiences things which aspect of their experience is worse. Your not them. I'm not them. Some study isn't them either.
 
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zephyrWiccan

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