Rapture controversy

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Brilliant, Diane! They were not ready. Is it even remotely possible that a posttribber or a prewrather would be ready when Jesus comes pretrib? Will they be "watching" for Jesus, or for something else?

That is a good question. It seems to me that a lot of Christians are focused on the antichrist appearing rather than the appearing of Lord Jesus.

 

[Grafted In]

I just noticed that it depends on the bible version.
Some say none....some say a little but not enough.

 

[diane.]

I have to take issue with what you are implying that doctrine does not matter.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So Jesus says that there will be other doctrines other than the true doctrine. Satan is behind all false doctrine, so if you do not have all the true doctrine then you are following false doctrine presented by satan. It is very important that we follow the true doctrines of Jesus. The doctrines of pre, mid, pre-wrath, or post trib can not all be true doctrine three of the four you listed have to be false doctrine.

Remember we can not serve two masters either the doctrine of Jesus or the doctrine of the father of lies you must choose which of the four is the true doctrine.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (when this was written the only scriptures were what we call the old testament)

Doctrine matters

Hello Original Happy Camper
I think if you were to read the original post, you would not have misinterpreted the second post. What you think I may have implied is incorrect.

 

[diane.]

I believe the meaning of that parable is that the 5 who went with Jesus to the wedding had the indwelling of The Holy Spirit.
The 5 left behind did not.

What you say regarding the oil representing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a teaching well circulated. Unfortunately, it's an incorrect interpretation. We must keep everything in context. Mat. 25 is a very powerful chapter. Each one of the parables reveal 'separation' for various reasons.

The parable of the 10 virgins is no different. Notice that the foolish virgins said to the wise virgins, "Our lamps are going out". In other words, they were dimly lit. If what you understand from this parable is true, and the oil represents the Holy Spirit, did not the 5 foolish virgins have the Holy Spirit, since they did have some amount of oil in their lamps? But where does it say in scripture that if you don't have enough of the Holy Spirit that you won't be included in the blessing of the wedding banquet? Of course, it does not. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, is the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Take notice of verse 10: But while they were on their way to buy oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were READY went in to the wedding banquet and the door was shut. Verse 11: Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' They were not ready and the bridegroom did not wait... thus the reason for them being noted as 'foolish'. They did not rightly discern the times or the coming of the bridegroom. They were not ready. Notice verse 12: But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' Verse 13 tells us everything we need to know. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." Realize that this parable is talking about separation, not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

It's all about 'readiness'.

diane.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello Original Happy Camper
I think if you were to read the original post, you would not have misinterpreted the second post. What you think I may have implied is incorrect.

Okay accept my apology

 

[Grafted In]

What you say regarding the oil representing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a teaching well circulated. Unfortunately, it's an incorrect interpretation. We must keep everything in context. Mat. 25 is a very powerful chapter. Each one of the parables reveal 'separation' for various reasons.

The parable of the 10 virgins is no different. Notice that the foolish virgins said to the wise virgins, "Our lamps are going out". In other words, they were dimly lit. If what you understand from this parable is true, and the oil represents the Holy Spirit, did not the 5 foolish virgins have the Holy Spirit, since they did have some amount of oil in their lamps? But where does it say in scripture that if you don't have enough of the Holy Spirit that you won't be included in the blessing of the wedding banquet? Of course, it does not. The infilling of the Holy Spirit, is the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Take notice of verse 10: But while they were on their way to buy oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were READY went in to the wedding banquet and the door was shut. Verse 11: Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' They were not ready and the bridegroom did not wait... thus the reason for them being noted as 'foolish'. They did not rightly discern the times or the coming of the bridegroom. They were not ready. Notice verse 12: But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' Verse 13 tells us everything we need to know. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." Realize that this parable is talking about separation, not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

It's all about 'readiness'.

diane.

As I have already pointed out it depends on the bible version you read.

Also, I am very interested in OT types and shadows, or if you prefer, rehearsals.
How was Moses spared the Pharoah's command that all male Jewish babies be thrown in the river to drown? He was placed in an "ark" and was held above the water so that he would not drown.

Noah obeyed God's command that he build an ark. He told Noah that He was going to destroy all of mankind...except for Noah and his wife, there 3 sons and their wives.
The job God gave to Nosh made no sense and it took him what, 100 years to build it.
But when the rains came God shut them up in the ark and they were untouched by God's wrath. They rose above the destruction as all other human beings were killed.

Perhaps you don't see the connection of these 2 portions of Scriture, and I may very well may wrong, but I don't think so.

Besides, who will be the bride if Christ? The true church, those from every corner of the globe who have within themselves The Holy Spirit.

Revelation 21:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Grafted In]

When I made mention of the 'timing' of the Rapture, I did not have in mind, what I consider to be ridiculous disputes over actual calendar dates, but rather the timing of the event itself, meaning pre, mid, pre-wrath, or post trib positions. There is great hostility, one against the other, with regard to one's personal view or doctrinal stand on the matter.

I'm sorry that the point of my comment may have been missed by a few - Readiness is of the utmost importance! Why were 5 of the 10 virgins excluded from the wedding banquet, if not for the fact that they were not ready? Take notice: the bridegroom did not wait for them either.

diane.[/QUOT]

But what is being prepared? Is it not the indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

 

[Grafted In]

But what is being prepared? Is it not the indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

 

[diane.]

Okay accept my apology

Thank you.

If by chance you are interested in my view on false teachers, though not pertaining to the subject of the rapture, I invite you to view my 4-minute video on False Teachers and Preachers of Lies.

diane.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Thank you.

If by chance you are interested in my view on false teachers, though not pertaining to the subject of the rapture, I invite you to view my 4-minute video on False Teachers and Preachers of Lies.

diane.

I watched it and agree with you that the Robert Shuller message, which all mega church preachers studied under is of Satan as is the Rapture doctrine they teach.

 

[diane.]

But what is being prepared? Is it not the indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

On the presumption that what you mean by the 'indwelling of the Holy Spirit' is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, then I find the above statement a bit concerning. If being prepared equates to the 'indwelling of the Spirit', then there will be a great many born-again, bible-believing Christians, who love and follow Jesus Christ that are going to be left out, because, by your definition, they are not prepared. I know a great many born-again, Spirit-filled Christians who do not live their lives in a manner that is worthy of God. Conversely, I know equally as many Christians who love the Lord, are born-again and live in a manner worthy of God, but are not baptized with the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that they are not ready (prepared) because they are not baptized in the Holy Spirit?

 

[diane.]

Brilliant, Diane! They were not ready. Is it even remotely possible that a posttribber or a prewrather would be ready when Jesus comes pretrib? Will they be "watching" for Jesus, or for something else?

"Is it even remotely possible that a posttribber or a prewrather would be ready when Jesus comes pretrib?"

Though I'm sure you are just musing, I'd like to make an attempt at answering the question. It is a good question. Yes, I think it is possible for one to be 'ready', regardless of any misguided doctrinal positions on the Rapture. If one is born-again by the Spirit of God and saved by the blood of Jesus - conducting their lives in a manner worthy of God; living in faithfulness and loyalty to Jesus Christ and walking in love according to the commandment of our Lord, I believe that this is the definition of being 'ready'.

Keep looking up for our redemption draweth nigh.
diane.

 

[2X4]

Thank you.

If by chance you are interested in my view on false teachers, though not pertaining to the subject of the rapture, I invite you to view my 4-minute video on False Teachers and Preachers of Lies.

diane.

I was warned for showing my videos about the Beast and Antichrist. So expect to be disciplined by these moderators who don't tolerate any evangelizing or proselytizing.

 

[2X4]

That is a good question. It seems to me that a lot of Christians are focused on the antichrist appearing rather than the appearing of Lord Jesus.

Neither the antichrist or Christ will be seen because they're invisible. The bodies that the antichrist or Christ use will act and say words differently but it's very difficult for an unspiritual man to identify which is which.

 

[Psalm3704]

Someone had compared 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as the same verse as Matthew 24:31.

I just want to clear this up for those that aren't aware of Matthew 24:31 since it has been used many time to falsely promote a rapture.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, people are caught up.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.​

In Matthew 24:31, the elects are gathered from heaven. They're gathered from heaven, not earth! This is not the rapture.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Many people have used this verse to promote their own theology of the rapture but if one put some thought into this and carefully examine the text and ask themselves, "how did the elects get to heaven before the end of the tribulation?"

Well, it's possible the elects went to heaven in a Pre-Trib rapture.

It's also possible the elects got there in a Mid-Trib rapture.

And it's even possible the elects got to heaven in a Prewrath rapture.

But if the elects are already in heaven immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), there's no way possible a Post-Trib rapture can exist.












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[2X4]

Someone had compared 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as the same verse as Matthew 24:31.

I just want to clear this up for those that aren't aware of Matthew 24:31 since it has been used many time to falsely promote a rapture.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, people are caught up.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.​

In Matthew 24:31, the elects are gathered from heaven. They're gathered from heaven, not earth! This is not the rapture.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Many people have used this verse to promote their own theology of the rapture but if one put some thought into this and carefully examine the text and ask themselves, "how did the elects get to heaven before the end of the tribulation?"

Well, it's possible the elects went to heaven in a Pre-Trib rapture.

It's also possible the elects got there in a Mid-Trib rapture.

It's even possible the elects got to heaven in a Prewrath rapture.

But if the elects are already in heaven immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), there's no way possible a Post-Trib rapture can exist.
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How can an unspiritual MAN become a spiritual MAN? If you can figure that out on your own without listening to the Voice of God and obeying ALL His commandments, then you have just experienced a miracle.

 

[Psalm3704]

How can an unspiritual MAN become a spiritual MAN? If you can figure that out on your own without listening to the Voice of God and obeying ALL His commandments, then you have just experienced a miracle.

The answer is Jesus and the holy spirit. We can't successfully obey God's commandment to the end on our own without Christ guiding us from within.

That's what Israel has been trying to do on their own.









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[2X4]

The answer is Jesus and the holy spirit. We can't successfully obey God's commandment to the end on our own without Christ guiding us from within.

That's what Israel has been trying to do on their own.
.

Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit that would be sent to God's chosen servants in the future but Jesus died soon afterwards like all flesh does. Only the Holy Spirit of God ( Christ ) remains and that is what I speak to those who have an ear for the Lord. Those who have an ear will hear My Voice and obey ALL of My commandments.

John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48: He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
49: For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50: And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

John 14
23: Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
25: "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
26: But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

1 John 2
27: but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

 

[Psalm3704]

Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit that would be sent to God's chosen servants in the future but Jesus died soon afterwards like all flesh does. Only the Holy Spirit of God ( Christ ) remains and that is what I speak to those who have an ear for the Lord. Those who have an ear will hear My Voice and obey ALL of My commandments.

John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48: He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
49: For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50: And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

John 14
23: Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
25: "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
26: But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

1 John 2
27: but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

The teachings of the holy spirit comes directly from Christ, not the Father. The holy spirit takes from what it hears from Jesus and gives it to us.

John 16:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.​

Whatever Christ knows, we will know through the holy spirit.

If the holy spirit reveals things to us directly from the Father, than we would also know the day and hour of the rapture as God knows.

The reason why God didn't reveal the day and hour to the Son is because if Christ also knew the day and hour, than the holy spirit would also pass that information to us as well as many other secrets that will be reveal later in Revelation 10:7 when God's mysteries will finally be revealed to all His servants and prophets before the 7th trumpet.

We get our information from Jesus, not the Father. Least not yet.










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[2X4]

The teachings of the holy spirit comes directly from Christ, not the Father. The holy spirit takes from what it hears from Jesus and gives it to us.

John 16:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.​

Whatever Christ knows, we will know through the holy spirit.

If the holy spirit reveals things to us directly from the Father, than we would also know the day and hour of the rapture as God knows.

The reason why God didn't reveal the day and hour to the Son is because if Christ also knew the day and hour, than the holy spirit would also pass that information to us as well as many other secrets that will be reveal later in Revelation 10:7 when God's mysteries will finally be revealed to all His servants and prophets before the 7th trumpet.

We get our information from Jesus, not the Father. Least not yet.
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When the Voice of God began speaking into my Mind 37 years ago, it certainly didn't say it was Jesus. It said, "I AM YOUR CREATOR". After that first time, every time the Voice gave me commands to obey, I was forced to obey them. This lasted for 28 1/2 years to get me ready to start testifying to every word the Holy Spirit delivered into my MIND for me to write and eventually speak. Now I can speak those words freely with total confidence because I know who I AM now.