Rapture controversy

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Revealing Times]

The wheat and tares prophecy is for the end of the world time - not the great tribulation end.
So shall it be - at the end of the world

Same as the sheep/wise virgins/inherit eternal life

but the wicked/tares/chaff/goats/foolish virgins -go to the lake of fire

The dead of the wicked will also be raised and get cast into the lake of fire.

No kidding.........that was not my point. The Raptue happens PRE TRIB. The WHEAT Jesus was speaking about are ONLY JEWS, not any Gentiles, the TARES are only people who are WICKED.

The Wheat and the Tares grow together until the END........Not the Church who is Raptured. AND....Even if the Rapture was close to the end as you guys try and say, that would mean the WHEAT and the TARES did NOT GROW TOGETHER until the end.

The POINT IS, the Wheat is ISRAEL ONLY...........Not the Church.

 

[tranquil]

In Galatians chapter 3 the Apostle Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made.
This reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai covenant.

Gal 3:15　 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.　


Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.　


Gal 3:17　 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.　


Gal 3:18　 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.　


Gal 3:19　 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.　


Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.　


We find two separate sets of commandments in the verse above.


Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

　

1Jn 3:22　 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.　

1Jn 3:23　 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.　

1Jn 3:24　 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

　

Abraham had an unconditional covenant. Moses had a conditional covenant. 2 different covenants

Or maybe you are just trolling.

 

[BABerean2]

Brilliant, Diane! They were not ready. Is it even remotely possible that a posttribber or a prewrather would be ready when Jesus comes pretrib? Will they be "watching" for Jesus, or for something else?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant of Christ, all of the arguing over the timing of Christ's return disappears. Nobody will come to salvation outside of becoming a part of the Olive Tree, during a future time period. The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. When two trees are grafted together neither tree is replaced.

Those who ignore the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 will continue to be in error.

Christ said in Matthew 26:28 that He would fulfill this covenant in His Blood. It is found in effect at Hebrews 8:6-13 and in verse 13 we find that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete". It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. It is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20. The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah. On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel" and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised to Jeremiah.

If you look in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, you will find that the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28. Some have created a time machine by changing a covenant confirmed by Christ into a treaty broken by an antichrist not mentioned by the angel Gabriel, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel. It also ignores any time that the Gospel was taken to Daniel's people during the first century, even though Christ clearly commanded that the Gospel was to be taken "first" to the Israelites. It was not taken to the Gentiles until after Stephen reviewed the whole history of Israel and was then stoned to death.

God ripped the temple veil in half on the day of Calvary. If God ripped the veil, who is going to repair it? Yet some claim God is going to deal with the modern nation of Israel under the now "obsolete" Old Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) during a future time period of 7 years when they will go back to keeping the Sinai covenant. They claim the Age of Grace ends even though the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

They ignore those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11. A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant. The 144,000 are described as "firstfruits" of the Lamb. Paul uses the same term to describe Christians in Romans 16:5. Paul also compares Christians to "virgins" in 2 Corinthians 11:2.

The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. Paul says that the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ. Paul provides no other path of salvation outside of the Olive Tree. Some have changed the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26. In verse 27 they have taken the New Covenant fulfilled at Calvary for all races of people and have converted it into a covenant to be fulfilled in the future.

In Matthew chapter 21 Christ reveals that the Son is the "heir" to the land, instead of those who rejected Him as the "chief cornerstone". He said the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him and it would be given to another bringing forth fruit. In 1 Peter 2:4-10 we find out who that nation is who accepted the "chief cornerstone".

You will almost never hear a sermon on the New Covenant in a some churches, because the New Covenant destroys their doctrine.

If we want modern Jews to be saved we need to share the Gospel with them, now. The "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 prove that the baby born in a manger was and is the New Covenant Messiah promised in the Old Testament.

Based on Matthew 3:9 and 1 Timothy 1:4, genealogy is not a factor in the New Covenant. The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew chapter 1. It begins with Abraham and ends in Christ.

Salvation is about faith in the coming Messiah in the Old Testament and it is about faith in the Messiah in the New Testament. This is confirmed by Hebrews chapter 11.

Christ will return only one time to gather all those who have placed their faith in Him.

.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Revealing Times]

The wheat and the tares harvest comes when it is time for no more wicked
people to be born.

Yea, you do not get the thrust of what Jesus meant it seems. The Wheat can only be Israel. The Tares are the Wicked people on Earth.

 

[Sammy-San]

I have no interest in them.

Every time someone thinks they can nail down a particular date or timeline, it always ends up wrong. He will take us up when HIS time is right. So stay ready and focus on building the kingdom.

Do you think this article is heresy? No Rapture Before the End Times: Why It’s Not a Bummer

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think this article is heresy?

It is certainly off-the-wall to call Jesus a liar.

But he did have a point - much that we take as concrete truth is our opinion and interpretation of what HE said. (and I fear the author did the same thing)

 

[Sammy-San]

It is certainly off-the-wall to call Jesus a liar.

But he did have a point - much that we take as concrete truth is our opinion and interpretation of what HE said. (and I fear the author did the same thing)

Would you say the essence of it is false?

 

[Dave-W]

Would you say the essence of it is false?

I read only as far as where he called the Lord a liar.

If that is the essence, then yes.

 

[Major1]

No kidding.........that was not my point. The Raptue happens PRE TRIB. The WHEAT Jesus was speaking about are ONLY JEWS, not any Gentiles, the TARES are only people who are WICKED.

The Wheat and the Tares grow together until the END........Not the Church who is Raptured. AND....Even if the Rapture was close to the end as you guys try and say, that would mean the WHEAT and the TARES did NOT GROW TOGETHER until the end.

The POINT IS, the Wheat is ISRAEL ONLY...........Not the Church.

Good stuff!

 

[Major1]

I can tell everyone when the Lord will return. Are you ready?

When He gets good and ready.

There is much controversy over the timing of the Second Coming, the timing of the Rapture, whether or not there will be a "Rapture" as such and so forth.

I prefer to keep it simple.

The Lord will return. "When" is not my problem.

The Lord will claim His own. The details of that is not my problem.

My only task, directed by God through Jesus, is to be at my appointed place of duty and doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Just like spiritual gifts, duties are sort of all similar yet very personal and specific. All Christian's duties include honoring God in all aspects of life and telling the good news of Jesus' salvation. You're on your own for the rest.

I Love that!!!

 

[Major1]

Brilliant, Diane! They were not ready. Is it even remotely possible that a posttribber or a prewrather would be ready when Jesus comes pretrib? Will they be "watching" for Jesus, or for something else?

Titus 2:13......
"looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ".

 

[Sammy-San]

I read only as far as where he called the Lord a liar.

If that is the essence, then yes.

What is your view on that site? False teacher? A lot of it is true, some if it is very suspect. Cultivating Submission: Why God Wants You to Hate His Moral Code

 

[Dave-W]

What is your view on that site? False teacher?

A misguided teacher. While he has some good points, he goes off the deep end with some of his statements. He fails to differentiate between how God originally made us and what the fall did to us. Ultimately he seems to end up in at least kind of in the right place but goes thru a lot of garbage to get there.

I would stay away lest you start taking the garbage as the truth.

 

[Sammy-San]

A misguided teacher. While he has some good points, he goes off the deep end with some of his statements. He fails to differentiate between how God originally made us and what the fall did to us. Ultimately he seems to end up in at least kind of in the right place but goes thru a lot of garbage to get there.

I would stay away lest you start taking the garbage as the truth.

Do you think its fair to label somebody a false teacher? Billy Graham made some errors, but much of what he says is truth.

 

[Major1]

At the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign, He sends out His angels to gather those who are alive and remain. 1 Thessalonians 5:17, Matthew 24:31
They are gathered to where He is; in Jerusalem.
So the 'post-trib' doctrine is the nearest to the truth, as long as it is understood that this gathering is not to heaven as people imagine, but to join our King in His earthly reign, as Revelation 5:9-10 says.

That is totally Biblically incorrect and is only your opinion and nothing more.

In reality, the "post-trib" vies is the worst of all the 2nd Coming/Rapture views.

There are many weaknesses og the post-trib" view.

One weakness is the clear teaching of Scripture that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God in Romans 8:1.
When we talk with those of that view, the actual words written in the Bible seem to somehow get changed or out right ignored or rationalized away.

The post-Tribers will say that God will protect the church during the Tribulation. That is preposterous thinking. It is of course true that while some judgments during the Tribulation specifically target the unsaved, many other judgments, such as the earthquakes, falling stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved equally. Thus, if believers go through the Tribulation, they will experience the wrath of God, which as I just stated above is in contradiction of Romans 8:1.

Posttribulationists also face a difficulty in explaining the absence of the word church in all biblical passages related to the Tribulation. The word CHURCH is the last word seen in Revelation 3:22.
That is it. That word never appears again in the Bible again. Doesn't it strike you as strange that Jesus would speak of the Church so much in the 1 three chapters and then never again?????

Posttribulationists must assume or again CHANGE or rationalize that the word saints in Revelation 4–21 means the church. BUT that is a different Greek word that is used completely.

There is yet another obviouse weakness of the posttribulational view that is shared by the other two theories: namely, the Bible does not give an explicit time line concerning future events. Scripture does not expressly teach one view over another, and that is why we have diversity of opinion concerning the end times and some variety on how the related prophecies should be harmonized.

It seems to me that the Lord has done that so that we all can debate, argue and discuss that in all reality and Biblical truth can not be absolutely determined. It comes down to what we have been taught all of our lives by our parents OR what the Holy Spirit teaches us through an open heart desiring to know the truth of God's Word.

Many here do not agree with me and that is perfectly fine with me. It is my opinion that after a long time of looking at all the options that what fits the best when I place ALL the Scriptures together is that there will be ...................

#1. A Falling away from the Word of God. (2nd Thess. 2:1-4)
#2. The Rapture will remove all born again believers. (1 Thess. 4:15-18).
#3. The A/C will then be revealed. (2nd Thess. 2:8).
#4. A war will break out coming from Russia toward Israel-1st Gog & Magog (Ezekiel 38).
#5. A SEVEN (7) year peace covenant will be arranged between the A/C and Israel.
#6. Armageddon.(Rev. 19:10-21)
#8. The 1000 year rule of Christ begins with Him on the throne of David in Jerusalem.
#9. After 1000 years, the 2nd Gog and Magog war will take place (Rev. 20:7-10).
#10. 2nd Resurrection which is the wicked lost of all the ages.(Rev.20:11).

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think its fair to label somebody a false teacher? Billy Graham made some errors, but much of what he says is truth.

It depends on the errors. When guys like Jim Jones (from the Assembly of God) and Rev Sun Myung Moon (United Methodist) start teaching their kind of wako doctrines that contradict scripture from almost anyone's viewpoint, it is correct to call them false teachers.

I have heard some strange things from Dr Graham, but nothing that would put one's life or salvation in jeopardy.

 

[Sammy-San]

It depends on the errors. When guys like Jim Jones (from the Assembly of God) and Rev Sun Myung Moon (United Methodist) start teaching their kind of wako doctrines that contradict scripture from almost anyone's viewpoint, it is correct to call them false teachers.

I have heard some strange things from Dr Graham, but nothing that would put one's life or salvation in jeopardy.

Even a comment like this?

 

[Major1]

At the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign, He sends out His angels to gather those who are alive and remain. 1 Thessalonians 5:17, Matthew 24:31
They are gathered to where He is; in Jerusalem.
So the 'post-trib' doctrine is the nearest to the truth, as long as it is understood that this gathering is not to heaven as people imagine, but to join our King in His earthly reign, as Revelation 5:9-10 says.

Ooops...double post.