Provocatively dressed 8 yr olds in Contest

LittleLambofJesus

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Don't know if this is the right board to post this on, so if the Mods want to move it, that is ok with me...

The TV and Internet have come a long wayz from the ole "Ozzie and Harriet shows I grew up with.
I just this on the news today and I must say, if this is what children are progessing to be like, then I can see even more cases of child sexual abuse and trafficking happening. As a parent, I would never let my kids perform in anything like this.
Any thoughts from others on this?

Little girls' provocative dance routine to 'Single Ladies' sparks fears of growing up too fast
 

lawtonfogle

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I had the displeasure of seeing this video over a week ago. While the actual costume/dance were surprising, the real big kick was that this was in the US and people at the contest didn't seem to see an issue with it. I was wondering when it would wind up on CF (I thought about posting it, but the you tube video of the dance was so bad I didn't want to risk a temporary ban over it).

As to a comment from the article
""If a pedophile approaches a child and says, can you do that dance for me, and can you do it rubbing up against me, that child is less able to distinguish that this is wrong," Dennis says."

Um, if your child doesn't realize to not do any dance rubbing up against a stranger, then I think you failed your job as a parent. Don't try to blame a dance, no matter how bad, for that one.

So now for the question I have been thinking about in my head. Would allowing a child to dance like that for a large audience (and to be recorded and passed around to every pedophile interested in girls out there) constitute actual child abuse or just a very bad decision? Are the children being harmed in a way we want to set a precedence to define as abuse?
 
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yasic

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You claim that this is worse in modern days? Perhaps you would like to state what period of time has less sexualized children in the western world? I mean, 1855 was the year that Brition found the issue of child prostitution so bad that they ended up passing laws against it (so obviously it existed before hand), and during the same year, numerous articles can be found in the States addressing the very issue from a local standpoint. In the 1700's, many places had the socially accepted age of consent set to around 13. Going further back to greek and biblical times, marriage was commonplace at 10-12 for women, Penelope (Odysseus's wife being one example from the culture) , and numerous records show that these young girls gave birth to societies that did not even question such events.

Just what time fame is so much better than our own?
 
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lawtonfogle

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You claim that this is worse in modern days? Perhaps you would like to state what period of time has less sexualized children in the western world? I mean, 1855 was the year that Brition found the issue of child prostitution so bad that they ended up passing laws against it (so obviously it existed before hand), and during the same year, numerous articles can be found in the States addressing the very issue from a local standpoint. In the 1700's, many places had the socially accepted age of consent set to around 13. Going further back to greek and biblical times, marriage was commonplace at 10-12 for women, Penelope (Odysseus's wife being one example from the culture) , and numerous records show that these young girls gave birth to societies that did not even question such events.

Just what time fame is so much better than our own?

The History of Child Abuse
An interesting read, though not for the weak at stomach (I had to take more than one long break while reading it).
 
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silence_dogood

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Don't know if this is the right board to post this on, so if the Mods want to move it, that is ok with me...

The TV and Internet have come a long wayz from the ole "Ozzie and Harriet shows I grew up with.
I just this on the news today and I must say, if this is what children are progessing to be like, then I can see even more cases of child sexual abuse and trafficking happening. As a parent, I would never let my kids perform in anything like this.
Any thoughts from others on this?

Little girls' provocative dance routine to 'Single Ladies' sparks fears of growing up too fast

Saw it. It was disgusting. I'd say that the parents ought to be ashamed, but it's pretty clear that they have no shame.

I just find it stunning that the parents have no clue that the seeds they're sowing with this kind of behavior are going to come back to haunt them when these little girls are fourteen and fifteen and sixteen.

Makes me appreciate my wife and daughters all the more.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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I saw the preformance,
Was pretty impressed with the dancing considering the age.
The costumes, while somewhat fitting considering the source, where to small though.
Granted that on the beach kids wear less then that but its apples and oranges.

I cant help but wonder though, if the kids didnt see it as sexual does that make us all perverts for thinking it is?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I find it hilarious that people (like in the article) are outraged by this yet A&E and TLC amongst other networks rake in big dough with shows like "Little Miss Perfect" and "Toddlers and Tiaras".

I find this image far more disturbing than that of the girls dancing.

tt.jpg
 
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moonkitty

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I find it hilarious that people (like in the article) are outraged by this yet A&E and TLC amongst other networks rake in big dough with shows like "Little Miss Perfect" and "Toddlers and Tiaras".

I find this image far more disturbing than that of the girls dancing.

tt.jpg

What is wrong with that child's mouth? It looks as if she has had some sort of blotch plastic surgery. It seriously looks as if someone photo-shoped a 40 year old woman's (and not a very pretty one at that) face on a child's body. UGH!
 
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Washington

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silence_dogood said:
I just find it stunning that the parents have no clue that the seeds they're sowing with this kind of behavior are going to come back to haunt them when these little girls are fourteen and fifteen and sixteen.

JamesAH said:
Hmmm seems morality in this country is becoming extinct way of the dinosaurs.

We can always count on the fundies for knee-jerk exaggerations. Thanks for not disappointing.
 
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lux et lex

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We can always count on the fundies for knee-jerk exaggerations. Thanks for not disappointing.

They can't be REAL fundies if they're saying things about dinosaurs. Remember, the Earth isn't old enough to house dinos. Their bones are a treasure hunt from God. ;)
 
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moonkitty

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We can always count on the fundies for knee-jerk exaggerations. Thanks for not disappointing.


I'm not a fundy, and for the most part I'm a very liberal person. But even I would not let my daughter do some of those dance moves even if she was fully dressed. And I certainly would not let her do them in those outfits.
 
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silence_dogood

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We can always count on the Christians for knee-jerk exaggerations. Thanks for not disappointing.

It's not a knee jerk exaggeration. Believe it or not, what children are taught when they're young does form the basis for their behavior as they get older.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Little Miss Perfect and Toddlers and Tiaras are two of the most horrifying shows I've ever watched. (especially when the creepy announcer sings on the former show) Can you say "vicariously living through your children"?!

Oh yeah, that guy is CREEPY! And the parents...wow. One mom made her girl go on stage even though she was puking constantly. Girl ended up in the hospital and all mom (and the pageant guy) cared about was that she quit on the pageant.

We can always count on the fundies for knee-jerk exaggerations. Thanks for not disappointing.

So you really don't think there's any connection between what these girls were doing and how it will affect their morality later on?

Years ago, this wouldn't be acceptable at all. We did have standards back then. National TV, local TV, wouldn't have played such a provocative performance. Our high school dance team wouldn't have been allowed to do a routine like that, and I went to a somewhat liberal high school.

And we wonder why teen pregnancy rates are up these days.

If more people had "knee jerk" reactions, perhaps our kids wouldn't be so lost.
 
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plindboe

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I just saw it. Thought it was cute and innocent.

Yes, if adult women had those costumes on and danced that way it would be sexy. But when kids do the same thing, it's not.

I find it bizarre that people act as if the kids have now been corrupted for life. I bet they're just normal and innocent kids, with an interest in dancing.

And yes, I agree with PreachersWife2004, those child beauty pageants are infinitely more scary.

Peter :)
 
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silence_dogood

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PreachersWife2004 said:
Years ago, this wouldn't be acceptable at all. We did have standards back then. National TV, local TV, wouldn't have played such a provocative performance. Our high school dance team wouldn't have been allowed to do a routine like that, and I went to a somewhat liberal high school.

I shared this in another thread, but I recently heard an episode of Red Skelton's last radio show before he moved over to television. At the end, when he was giving his farewell speech and saying all of his thank yous, he said how grateful he was to have been invited as a guest into people's homes and stated that he was sorry if anything they had done had caused any offense. The only thing harder to imagine than Red Skelton doing anything to offend on his show is the idea of anyone in Hollywood today not wanting to offend somebody.

The idea among radio shows and in the early days of TV was that you were a guest in someone's home and should act accordingly.

Now, it's as if they go out of their way to "push the envelope" and be offensive. There was a time when Ricky Ricardo wasn't even allowed to tell people his wife was pregnant. Now, shows like "Sixteen and Pregnant" actually celebrate teen pregnancy. Where once, even married couples were not allowed to be shown in bed together (I guess if anybody asked, Rob Petrie just had sleep apnea that kept Laura awake), people routinely live together before marriage, marriage is mocked, and sexual promiscuity among children goes on without even raising an eyebrow.

In our family, we began slowly blocking out shows and then entire channels until there was only about three or four hours of available TV a week to choose from. Somebody suggested a British sci-fi show which featured a homosexual "hero" who went through time having sex with virtually everything that moved (of course, they neglected to mention the homosexual part or the part about the promiscuity). We watched about ten minutes of it and when my thirteen year old son turned to me and said, "Dad, we shouldn't be watching this", that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

So now we don't have a TV. We watch sports via the internet and we watch RFD and Blue Highway via the internet. Everything else is on DVD.

About the only thing we can't get is the Porter Wagoner Show, but I'm able to get DVDs of those.

I like that my sons have role models like Ben Cartwright and John Wayne instead of the gay guy from Torchwood and any of a hundred little boys pretending to be men on TV. I love that my daughters have Nancy Drew and Laura Ingalls Wilder and not Brittany Spears or Hannah Montana.

I know that means people are going to laugh at us, and I'm OK with that. I'm a big boy. I can handle people laughing at me for abiding by Biblical principles, but what I will not tolerate is having my children exposed to immorality.

And that's why we've made the decision to kick TV out of our home.

And we wonder why teen pregnancy rates are up these days.

If more people had "knee jerk" reactions, perhaps our kids wouldn't be so lost.

People today aren't willing to give up their own youth. People want to stay children forever and to lay down rules (and God forbid introducing morality!) means that they're now the adults they so desperately want to avoid becoming. And for those who are parents, the priority isn't on being a parent, but on showing their children that they're "hip" and "cool" and being their children's friend.
 
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Washington

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moonkitty said:
I'm not a fundy, and for the most part I'm a very liberal person. But even I would not let my daughter do some of those dance moves even if she was fully dressed. And I certainly would not let her do them in those outfits.
My remark had nothing to do with the facts of the matter, only with the conclusions the two made.

silence_dogood said:
It's not a knee jerk exaggeration. Believe it or not, what children are taught when they're young does form the basis for their behavior as they get older.
*Sheesh!* There you go again. When you make unqualified remarks like
"what children are taught when they're young does form the basis for their behavior as they get older."
and
" the seeds they're sowing with this kind of behavior are going to come back to haunt them when these little girls are fourteen and fifteen and sixteen."
it just makes you appear a bit unthinking.

The thrust of both statements is one of unqualified inevitability. The first implying that "the basis for their behavior as they get older" is grounded ONLY in what they are taught, and the second that the "behavior [is absolutely] going to come back to haunt them when these little girls are fourteen and fifteen and sixteen." Nobody knows this to be a fact, yet you state it as one. This is the knee-jerk exaggeration I was speaking of; an unconsidered overstatement.

PreachersWife2004 said:
So you really don't think there's any connection between what these girls were doing and how it will affect their morality later on?
Not necessarily, as silence_dogood would have us believe. Could it? Sure, but it's not writ in stone.

If more people had "knee jerk" reactions, perhaps our kids wouldn't be so lost.
Are you actually serious here, that knee jerk reactions could well be better than considered responses? OUCH!!
 
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silence_dogood

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Washington said:
*Sheesh!* There you go again. When you make unqualified remarks like
"what children are taught when they're young does form the basis for their behavior as they get older."​



You're absolutely right. I did not qualify that because there is no qualification for it.

I'll even say it again: what children are taught today forms the basis for their behavior tomorrow.

Nobody knows this to be a fact

Actually, we do know it to be a fact. Have you ever taken a child psych class?
 
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