Provocatively dressed 8 yr olds in Contest

[Washington]

Pedophiles had a field day with this one.

Really! Do you know a lot of pedophiles? Or maybe your read their true-confession article somewhere? Or . . . . just how did you come by this knowledge?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Curiously, teen pregnancies are higher in the red states; atheists and agnostics have the smallest divorce rates, and they're significantly higher among conservative christians; teens who take virginity pledges are more likely to engage in anal and oral sex; teens who've had abstinence only education have as many STD's as teens who haven't; the conservative, christian states consume more inappropriate content than the other states, Ohio being the biggest consumer.

It doesn't appear that teaching christian morality has the effect christians like to tell themselves.

Peter

Many Christians can be summed up in this way.

Take a Baptist with you fishing and he'll drink all your beer.
Take two Baptist with you fishing and you'll have all the beer to yourself.

Now, some will claim that we have many 'not True Christians', others wills say that in predominantly Christian areas, the guys who just want to watch inappropriate content in private are going to likely claim to be Christian to avoid the trouble and hellfire and brimstone preaching, so they can do what they originally wanted to do.

I find many Christians and non-Christians are the same when it comes to morals and actually applying them to ones life, they in general have too much apathy to the issue. The difference is when role is called (at least in predominantly Christians areas), one group clams 'Christian' while the other either goes along are just remains quite to avoid trouble.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Pedophiles had a field day with this one.

Really! Do you know a lot of pedophiles? Or maybe your read their true-confession article somewhere? Or . . . . just how did you come by this knowledge?

Don't recall speaking to you.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I imagine some pedophiles did have a field day with the video...amongst countless other ways.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Really! Do you know a lot of pedophiles? Or maybe your read their true-confession article somewhere? Or . . . . just how did you come by this knowledge?

You know, with a little bit of searching, you can actually find threads on forums where pedophiles are given their comments on this, and while some of the comments are what you expect, some are quite surprising, especially those who are actually against this. Seems moral pedophiles do exist, you just rarely ever find someone who is willingly to be open about both, even with the anonymity of the internet.

 

[Washington]

Don't recall speaking to you.

Me either. Hey, ain't we smart to not remember something not worth remembering. To us.

You know, with a little bit of searching, you can actually find threads on forums where pedophiles are given their comments on this, and while some of the comments are what you expect, some are quite surprising, especially those who are actually against this. Seems moral pedophiles do exist, you just rarely ever find someone who is willingly to be open about both, even with the anonymity of the internet.

No doubt shocking news to brinny. Hope she's sitting down as she reads it.

 

[brinny]

Me either. Hey, ain't we smart to not remember something not worth remembering. To us.


No doubt shocking news to brinny. Hope she's sitting down as she reads it.

bored, are ya?

 

[lawtonfogle]

No doubt shocking news to brinny. Hope she's sitting down as she reads it.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there (granted I think I detect the same hint in my own writing)? But Brinny is quite right. It doesn't take a scientific study for me to know men are lusting after the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated, and pretty reasonable induction allows us to arrive at the same conclusion here.

 

[craigerNY]

Creepy doesn't even begin to describe that video. My goodness..... At any rate I don't watch TV at all so I never even knew about "Little Miss Perfect" and "Toddlers and Tiaras" so I had to look it up. I'm speechless.

 

[Billnew]

You claim that this is worse in modern days? Perhaps you would like to state what period of time has less sexualized children in the western world? I mean, 1855 was the year that Brition found the issue of child prostitution so bad that they ended up passing laws against it (so obviously it existed before hand), and during the same year, numerous articles can be found in the States addressing the very issue from a local standpoint. In the 1700's, many places had the socially accepted age of consent set to around 13. Going further back to greek and biblical times, marriage was commonplace at 10-12 for women, Penelope (Odysseus's wife being one example from the culture) , and numerous records show that these young girls gave birth to societies that did not even question such events.

Just what time fame is so much better than our own?

I believe all societies have had problems with sexualized children. Just some cultures force their female children to cover up head to toe, and even then, they still are in danger.

This group look to be a great dance team, but they are doing and dressing as if they are alot older. My daughter's Cheer(elementary) team won a contest that the next best team came in third because the judges said the team did moves that their age group should not be doing. Things that are comon in JR high and High school, but they were offended by elementary children doing it.
It did not seem that big to me, after I rewatched the tape, I figured out which moves they were, nothing out of the ordinary as I said for older kids.

The moves and outfits are not for these young kids. Sadly, this team could probably be famous for their dance routines, but instead somone had to dress them as sex symbols to get attention.

 

[silence_dogood]

Perhaps this is a backlash to the overly strict standards of yesteryear?

How were they "overly strict"?

Not to mention, while people are up in arms about the increase in sexuality, from the older shows I have watched in the past (my father loves to watch many shows that were own when he was growing up), violence was a very acceptable thing to show, even if it was not necessarily morally approved of.

And the difference is that the violence was considered wrong and the bad guys were brought to justice for it.

I'm really confused on if showing a cowboy killing a couple of 'bad guys', even without the gore, is really less harmful than a simulated 'no naughty bits actually showing' sex scene.

Yes, it's far less harmful because the message is sent that they were reaping the consequences of their immoral acts.

 

[silence_dogood]

Perhaps in those who stay morally/ethically immature, but in those who don't, they gain the ability to throw it off, though it can take a great deal of effort to through of deep socialization that something is inherently disgusting.

And this is where it would be beneficial for you to take a child psych class.

 

[silence_dogood]

Curiously, teen pregnancies are higher in the red states; atheists and agnostics have the smallest divorce rates, and they're significantly higher among conservative christians; teens who take virginity pledges are more likely to engage in anal and oral sex; teens who've had abstinence only education have as many STD's as teens who haven't; the conservative, christian states consume more inappropriate content than the other states, Ohio being the biggest consumer.

It doesn't appear that teaching christian morality has the effect christians like to tell themselves.

Peter

You're absolutely right. However, this doesn't mean that the values are wrong, but that the way they're shared is wrong.

The problem with virginity and abstinance movements is that they're either based on pragmatism ("If you have sex, you'll get pregnant and ruin your life") or on moralism ("If you have sex you'll go to Hell"). The kids are never given any kind of moral foundation or understanding of what sex is, why God designed and ordained sex between a man and his wife, or what God's purpose for sex is.

I don't blame the kids a bit. When I was a kid, if someone told me not to do something, it was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

But that's the fault of the parents, not a weakness in God's design for sex.

And as for the divorce, again, it isn't God's institution of marriage that is wrong, but a failure on the part of churches to properly counsel and mentor couples wanting to get married, and a refusal to stand up and say "No, we're not going to marry you" to those who aren't ready or don't meet the qualifications to be married.

 

[silence_dogood]

err . . . okay.

Looks back through all of SD's posts and finds,

Post #1.

Little girls' dance routine
​

Post #18.

Red Skelton's last radio show
Ricky Ricardo
"Sixteen and Pregnant"
Rob Petrie and Laura
British sci-fi show with a homosexual "hero."
RFD
Blue Highway
Porter Wagoner Show
Ben Cartwright
John Wayne
Nancy Drew,
Laura Ingalls Wilder,
Brittany Spears
Hannah Montana.

​

I guess these are what you had in mind.
So now, just what is wrong with them, and in what way are they portrayed as though they're normal and acceptable.

My, aren't you clever. Before I waste any more of my time with you, is this really the best I can expect from you? Or do you want to discuss this like grownups?

 

[lawtonfogle]

How were they "overly strict"?

Can't even show a married couple innocently sleeping in bed?
And it could have been a changing in the pendulum from the sexually repressed Victorian Era, where showing an ankle was scandalous as showing a nipple is now.

And the difference is that the violence was considered wrong and the bad guys were brought to justice for it.

Except when the good guy was showing violence and being awarded for it. But then are you ok with showing premarital sex and then showing people getting punished for it? Are you ok with showing sex between married people who are rewarded for staying faithful to the marriage bed.

Of course by sex, I mean simulated sex done via acting.

Yes, it's far less harmful because the message is sent that they were reaping the consequences of their immoral acts.

Except it was still showing violence, and the good guys often weren't punished when they displayed violence.

 

[lawtonfogle]

And this is where it would be beneficial for you to take a child psych class.

And this would be the point where it would be beneficial to stop making the fallacy of claims to authority.


P.S.
I've taken more than one child psych class.

 

[lawtonfogle]

You're absolutely right. However, this doesn't mean that the values are wrong, but that the way they're shared is wrong.

The problem with virginity and abstinance movements is that they're either based on pragmatism ("If you have sex, you'll get pregnant and ruin your life") or on moralism ("If you have sex you'll go to Hell"). The kids are never given any kind of moral foundation or understanding of what sex is, why God designed and ordained sex between a man and his wife, or what God's purpose for sex is.

I don't blame the kids a bit. When I was a kid, if someone told me not to do something, it was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

But that's the fault of the parents, not a weakness in God's design for sex.

And as for the divorce, again, it isn't God's institution of marriage that is wrong, but a failure on the part of churches to properly counsel and mentor couples wanting to get married, and a refusal to stand up and say "No, we're not going to marry you" to those who aren't ready or don't meet the qualifications to be married.

The problem with sex is that society has perverted marriage. Paul says unless you are given the gift of celibacy (and most are not), you can only go so long before you will be 'consumed by the flames of passion', aka have sex. Yet we push marriage farther back than this time limit is.

Puberty, and the start of sexual desires, starts around the start of the teenage years (and is actually starting sooner ever decade). Marriage is normally acceptable only around 24 or later (and that date seems to be being pushed back as completing college first, especially for those seeking advanced degrees, becomes more important). The Bible points out that not everyone can wait that long. It is much like when a wife refuses to have sex with her husband. The husband is not the only one to blame if he starts lusting after a long period of no sex, at least that is what the Bible says.

Yet society either thinks kids should have sex before marriage, or thinks kids can remain perpetually celibate even without the gift of celibacy. Bother are Biblical incorrect, yet ironically, the latter has become the standard 'Biblical' view. I doubt Satan enjoys anything more than Christians teaching what He wants them to while they believe they are teaching what God says.

 

[silence_dogood]

And this would be the point where it would be beneficial to stop making the fallacy of claims to authority.

Actually, there's a great book called The Fallacy Detective that would help you better understand what an appeal to authority is.

P.S.
I've taken more than one child psych class.

Good. Then you already know that what you're saying is nonsense.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Actually, there's a great book called The Fallacy Detective that would help you better understand what an appeal to authority is.

I already know what it is, and it is what you are indirectly, though implication, doing.

Good. Then you already know that what you're saying is nonsense.

Except it is not.

While a small set of adults do not have the ability to throw off their views they learned in childhood, most get to a point that ethical reasoning does allow changing of views.

Of course, one could be making the claim this does not matter much because ones behavior is determined more by the social setting, something that Dr. Zim(whatchamacallit, the Stanford Prison Study guy) terms the Lucifer effect, but when not influenced by our surroundings (or perhaps, when neutrally influenced is a better way of wording it), one can use reasoning to change things learned in child hood (and this is not counting in the inclusion of false memories).

 

[silence_dogood]

I already know what it is, and it is what you are indirectly, though implication, doing.

And, again, no it is not. An appeal to authority would be something along the lines of "So and so says it's true, so it must be true".

While a small set of adults do not have the ability to throw off their views...

Strawman #1. We're not talking about views.