Prayer and Free Will

BPPLEE

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Respectfully, it isn't that I am taking things out of context, it is more that you're not understanding my words.

But, ok. Let's take James out of the picture and start looking at other examples of prayer being used as an Effectual tool.

2 Samuel 15:31 NLT - "When someone told David that his adviser Ahithophel was now backing Absalom, David prayed, "O LORD, let Ahithophel give Absalom foolish advice!"

If someone prayed this prayer about you, that you, Studyman, would be confused and give the wrong advice . . . how would you feel about that?

As I noted with another person here, God honored that prayer of Ahithophel.
But Ahithophel didn’t give bad advice and David had a back up plan. He sent an adviser to Absolom who was a double agent.
He gave different advice and Absolom followed that advice and Ahithophel read the writing on the wall and committed suicide.
 
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Oneofhope

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Again, you can't seem to see what James, and David are dealing with.

In James 5, the Church of God is endangered by lawless men.


1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. 3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. 4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. 5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. 6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

But the Church of God praying one for another is protected, because the Prayer of a Righteous man availeth much.


In 2 Sam 15, the Church of God is endangered by Lawless men.

13 And there came a messenger to David, saying, The hearts of the men of Israel are after Absalom. 14 And David said unto all his servants that were with him at Jerusalem, (God's Church) Arise, and let us flee; for we shall not else escape from Absalom: make speed to depart, lest he overtake us suddenly, and bring evil upon us, and smite the city with the edge of the sword.

30 And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up, and had his head covered, and he went barefoot: and all the people that was with him covered every man his head, and they went up, weeping as they went up. 31 And one told David, saying, Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O LORD, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

David wouldn't pray for the demise of those members of God's Church but did pray that the deceivers and Conspirators would not harm God's People.

James, in like manner, also promoted the same Philosophy, that God's Church pray one for another, protecting one another, because the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

David or James wouldn't make that prayer against a man who has "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God. But they would against deceivers who would promote lies about God and conspire against, condemn and kill the Just.

If I am on Absolom's side, or on the side of the "Many" deceivers "Who call Jesus Lord, Lord" but are children of disobedience, I can expect the prayers of a righteous man to be against me.

But if I'm on David's Side, or on the side of the Lord's Christ, the prayers of the righteous will be for me.

I hope you might consider these truths.

The truth is, is that not one of you have managed to actually answer my questions. I find that to be intriguing.

See you in another thread. :)
 
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Oneofhope

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But Ahithophel didn’t give bad advice and David had a back up plan. He sent an adviser to Absolom who was a double agent.
He gave different advice and Absolom followed that advice and Ahithophel read the writing on the wall and committed suicide.

That sounds foreign to me. But here is a Bible verse that gets to the heart of the matter, which is that things were done exactly as God had planned.

2 Samuel 17:14 NIV - "Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom."

Surely, you are going to strip God of His Sovereign Power in how He controls us, are you? :)

Sounds to me like the Lord violated the free will of Ahithophel, not to mention Absolom.

It's pretty difficult to believe a person has total free will if the Lord is constantly involved in our affairs.
 
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BPPLEE

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That sounds foreign to me. But here is a Bible verse that gets to the heart of the matter, which is that things were done exactly as God had planned.

2 Samuel 17:14 NIV - "Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom."

Surely, you are going to strip God of His Sovereign Power in how He controls us, are you? :)

Sounds to me like the Lord violated the free will of Ahithophel, not to mention Absolom.

It's pretty difficult to believe a person has total free will if the Lord is constantly involved in our affairs.
Hushai was working for David. Ahithophel didn’t give bad advice, Absolom just didn’t take his advice. It has nothing to do with Ahithophel’s free will
 
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Oneofhope

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Hushai was working for David. Ahithophel didn’t give bad advice, Absolom just didn’t take his advice. It has nothing to do with Ahithophel’s free will

I find these responses to be just incredible. Let's break this down slowly:

2 Samuel 17:14 NIV - "Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom."

The red, highlighted text above. Did God cause the Advice of Ahithophel to be "bad" with the purpose of bringing disaster upon Absalom? Mind you, that is exactly what happened.

Are you stripping the Lord or His Sovereign Power to control events by controlling the thoughts and actions of people? Careful . . . the Lord takes responsibility for these things all throughout the Bible, particularly the Old Testament.
 
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Oneofhope

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Unless you mean like Balaam who sought to curse Israel and every time he opened his mouth a blessing came out.

Say, I wrote an article on Day 133 of the timeline, chronological study plan, and it deals with the Holy Mind control of the Lord. If you'd be interested, I would like to know where and why you might disagree. I'm making myself wide open for criticism!!! :D But that is good. If you do decide to comment, please speak freely. I not going to rave at you like so many here do. Thanks in advance!

Day 137 of the Timeline, Chronological Reading/Listening Plan

2 Samuel 16-18

Select the attachment in your email to open the dramatized NLT translation audio file.​

Ideas to Consider:

** Finally, we arrive at the story of David being verbally and physically assaulted by Shimei, which is perhaps the most incredible story of Godly character that points forward to Jesus, the very “Son of David.” What is striking about this story is that David claims that God ordered Shimei to speak and act as he did. Also, David shows us the character of Jesus as found in the New Testament. This story not only points to the Power and control of God but also gives us a preview of the future Messiah’s humble behavior.

When Shimei began to assault David with accusations of murdering the previous king Saul and unlawfully taking the Throne, he was lying.

First Samuel 31 4-5 . . . N.K.J.V. – “Then Saul said to his armorbearer, "Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised men come and thrust me through and abuse me." But his armorbearer would not, for he was greatly afraid. Therefore, Saul took a sword and fell on it. And when his armorbearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword, and died with him.”

As we can see above, king Saul intentionally took his own life by falling upon his sword. Lying and deception: This is one of the great tests that we, as True Christians, must face and endure . . how will we conduct ourselves under false accusations? How will we conduct ourselves when our enemies come at us with their worldly forms of mental illness?

John 16 33 . . . N.K.J.V. - "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

As mentioned, David believed that the Lord caused Shimei to speak and act as he did. And why would David [not] believe this? We have repeatedly read that God had been directly involved throughout his life. We have consistently shown how God causes events, instigates people to speak as directed, and triggers people to act and behave according to His Will. As David continues to learn and grow in his Spiritual Wisdom, it is becoming abundantly clear (to him) that God truly is in control.

Second Samuel 16 9-11 . . . N.L.T. - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king?" Abishai son of Zeruiah demanded. "Let me go over and cut off his head!" "No!" the king said. "Who asked your opinion, you sons of Zeruiah! If the LORD has told him to curse me, who are you to stop him?" Then David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "My own son is trying to kill me. Doesn't this relative of Saul have even more reason to do so? Leave him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to do it.”

As we continue in David’s remarkable story, he reveals that there is a Holy Purpose for Shimei’s abuse, and is as follows:

Second Samuel 16 12 . . . N.L.T. – “And perhaps the LORD will see that I am being wronged and will bless me because of these curses today."

It would be wise for us all to heed this incredible story and example of David, for he is learning to act according to the ways of his future “Son,” Jesus. In comparing the example of David above to Christ below, they are nearly identical in principle.

First Peter 2 21-23 . . . E.S.V. – “For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.”

If anything has become evident in this admirable story, it is that the Lord has a Plan, and it is being fulfilled . . . and no one is capable of stopping it. Therefore, it would make sense if we were beginning to feel a sense of relief over the travesties that were taking place in our lives. When we are assaulted, be it physically or verbally, we can view David and Jesus as our examples to follow. We are learning that if we can endure hardship without turning away from God, a tremendous and Eternal reward will await.

** Day 137 is stunning in that we find two additional and undeniable pieces of evidence where the Lord controls the minds and words of Ahithophel and Hushai. They are as follows:

Second Samuel 16 20-23 . . . N.L.T. – “Then Absalom turned to Ahithophel and asked him, "What should I do next?" Ahithophel told him, "Go and sleep with your father's concubines, for he has left them here to look after the palace. Then all Israel will know that you have insulted your father beyond hope of reconciliation, and they will throw their support to you." So they set up a tent on the palace roof where everyone could see it, and Absalom went in and had sex with his father's concubines. Absalom followed Ahithophel's advice, just as David had done. For every word Ahithophel spoke seemed as wise as though it had come directly from the mouth of God.”

The writer is correct, as these words from Ahithophel WERE the Words and ideas from God, for they are the fulfillment of God's punishment to David for committing adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband, Urijah. God clearly told David that one from his own family would be intimate with his concubines in plain view of Israel. This is from Day 133, 2 Sam 12:11.

Second Samuel 12 11 . . . N.L.T. - "This is what the LORD says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view.”

The second instance of mind control from the Lord comes from Second Samuel 17 14:

N.I.V. – “Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.”

The story can be challenging to follow, but if we recall, Hushai’s suggestion to Absalom was poor advice, while Ahithophel's suggestion was proper. However, the Lord didn’t want Absalom to follow the better advice of Ahithophel, so God caused Absalom to make the wrong choice, which, as the Lord deemed, would result in his death, and the Throne would continue through David and passed forward to Solomon (the future king in the genealogy of Christ). Hence, the Lord “frustrated” the advice of Ahithophel with the purpose of removing Absalom as the thorn in David’s side.

The theme of God’s Power and Mysterious Plan is always emphasized. These ideas are the absolute backbone of Scripture; we must recognize and do our best to understand them.
 
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BPPLEE

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I find these responses to be just incredible. Let's break this down slowly:

2 Samuel 17:14 NIV - "Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom."

The red, highlighted text above. Did God cause the Advice of Ahithophel to be "bad" with the purpose of bringing disaster upon Absalom? Mind you, that is exactly what happened.

Are you stripping the Lord or His Sovereign Power to control events by controlling the thoughts and actions of people? Careful . . . the Lord takes responsibility for these things all throughout the Bible, particularly the Old Testament.
“The Lord had determined to frustrate THE GOOD ADVICE of Ahithophel “
The advice was good. If Absolom had listened to him he would have defeated David. The advice was frustrated by having Hushai give other advice that Absolom followed. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ahithophel’s free will.
 
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BPPLEE

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Say, I wrote an article on Day 133 of the timeline, chronological study plan, and it deals with the Holy Mind control of the Lord. If you'd be interested, I would like to know where and why you might disagree. I'm making myself wide open for criticism!!! :D But that is good. If you do decide to comment, please speak freely. I not going to rave at you like so many here do. Thanks in advance!

Day 137 of the Timeline, Chronological Reading/Listening Plan

2 Samuel 16-18

Select the attachment in your email to open the dramatized NLT translation audio file.​

Ideas to Consider:

** Finally, we arrive at the story of David being verbally and physically assaulted by Shimei, which is perhaps the most incredible story of Godly character that points forward to Jesus, the very “Son of David.” What is striking about this story is that David claims that God ordered Shimei to speak and act as he did. Also, David shows us the character of Jesus as found in the New Testament. This story not only points to the Power and control of God but also gives us a preview of the future Messiah’s humble behavior.

When Shimei began to assault David with accusations of murdering the previous king Saul and unlawfully taking the Throne, he was lying.

First Samuel 31 4-5 . . . N.K.J.V. – “Then Saul said to his armorbearer, "Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised men come and thrust me through and abuse me." But his armorbearer would not, for he was greatly afraid. Therefore, Saul took a sword and fell on it. And when his armorbearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword, and died with him.”

As we can see above, king Saul intentionally took his own life by falling upon his sword. Lying and deception: This is one of the great tests that we, as True Christians, must face and endure . . how will we conduct ourselves under false accusations? How will we conduct ourselves when our enemies come at us with their worldly forms of mental illness?

John 16 33 . . . N.K.J.V. - "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

As mentioned, David believed that the Lord caused Shimei to speak and act as he did. And why would David [not] believe this? We have repeatedly read that God had been directly involved throughout his life. We have consistently shown how God causes events, instigates people to speak as directed, and triggers people to act and behave according to His Will. As David continues to learn and grow in his Spiritual Wisdom, it is becoming abundantly clear (to him) that God truly is in control.

Second Samuel 16 9-11 . . . N.L.T. - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king?" Abishai son of Zeruiah demanded. "Let me go over and cut off his head!" "No!" the king said. "Who asked your opinion, you sons of Zeruiah! If the LORD has told him to curse me, who are you to stop him?" Then David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "My own son is trying to kill me. Doesn't this relative of Saul have even more reason to do so? Leave him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to do it.”

As we continue in David’s remarkable story, he reveals that there is a Holy Purpose for Shimei’s abuse, and is as follows:

Second Samuel 16 12 . . . N.L.T. – “And perhaps the LORD will see that I am being wronged and will bless me because of these curses today."

It would be wise for us all to heed this incredible story and example of David, for he is learning to act according to the ways of his future “Son,” Jesus. In comparing the example of David above to Christ below, they are nearly identical in principle.

First Peter 2 21-23 . . . E.S.V. – “For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.”

If anything has become evident in this admirable story, it is that the Lord has a Plan, and it is being fulfilled . . . and no one is capable of stopping it. Therefore, it would make sense if we were beginning to feel a sense of relief over the travesties that were taking place in our lives. When we are assaulted, be it physically or verbally, we can view David and Jesus as our examples to follow. We are learning that if we can endure hardship without turning away from God, a tremendous and Eternal reward will await.

** Day 137 is stunning in that we find two additional and undeniable pieces of evidence where the Lord controls the minds and words of Ahithophel and Hushai. They are as follows:

Second Samuel 16 20-23 . . . N.L.T. – “Then Absalom turned to Ahithophel and asked him, "What should I do next?" Ahithophel told him, "Go and sleep with your father's concubines, for he has left them here to look after the palace. Then all Israel will know that you have insulted your father beyond hope of reconciliation, and they will throw their support to you." So they set up a tent on the palace roof where everyone could see it, and Absalom went in and had sex with his father's concubines. Absalom followed Ahithophel's advice, just as David had done. For every word Ahithophel spoke seemed as wise as though it had come directly from the mouth of God.”

The writer is correct, as these words from Ahithophel WERE the Words and ideas from God, for they are the fulfillment of God's punishment to David for committing adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband, Urijah. God clearly told David that one from his own family would be intimate with his concubines in plain view of Israel. This is from Day 133, 2 Sam 12:11.

Second Samuel 12 11 . . . N.L.T. - "This is what the LORD says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view.”

The second instance of mind control from the Lord comes from Second Samuel 17 14:

N.I.V. – “Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.”

The story can be challenging to follow, but if we recall, Hushai’s suggestion to Absalom was poor advice, while Ahithophel's suggestion was proper. However, the Lord didn’t want Absalom to follow the better advice of Ahithophel, so God caused Absalom to make the wrong choice, which, as the Lord deemed, would result in his death, and the Throne would continue through David and passed forward to Solomon (the future king in the genealogy of Christ). Hence, the Lord “frustrated” the advice of Ahithophel with the purpose of removing Absalom as the thorn in David’s side.

The theme of God’s Power and Mysterious Plan is always emphasized. These ideas are the absolute backbone of Scripture; we must recognize and do our best to understand them.
If anyone’s free will was messed with I would say it was Absolom because he was tricked into following the wrong advice.
 
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BPPLEE

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I find these responses to be just incredible. Let's break this down slowly:

2 Samuel 17:14 NIV - "Absalom and all the men of Israel said, "The advice of Hushai the Arkite is better than that of Ahithophel." For the LORD had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom."

The red, highlighted text above. Did God cause the Advice of Ahithophel to be "bad" with the purpose of bringing disaster upon Absalom? Mind you, that is exactly what happened.

Are you stripping the Lord or His Sovereign Power to control events by controlling the thoughts and actions of people? Careful . . . the Lord takes responsibility for these things all throughout the Bible, particularly the Old Testament.
Unchecked Copy Box
2Sa 15:37 - So Hushai David's friend came into the city, and Absalom came into Jerusalem.

Unchecked Copy Box
2Sa 16:16 - And it came to pass, when Hushai the Archite, David's friend, was come unto Absalom, that Hushai said unto Absalom, God save the king, God save the king.

Hushai was a double agent. He was working for “his friend “ David

2Sa 17:7 - And Hushai said unto Absalom, The counsel that Ahithophel hath given is not good at this time.

Did you know that Ahithophel was Bathsheba’s grandfather and that probably had a lot to do with his turning against David?

 
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Oneofhope

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“The Lord had determined to frustrate THE GOOD ADVICE of Ahithophel “
The advice was good. If Absolom had listened to him he would have defeated David. The advice was frustrated by having Hushai give other advice that Absolom followed. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ahithophel’s free will.
I apologize that I did not convey myself properly. The subjects aren't the center of this idea. The idea is . . . God is capable of causing these situations to be exactly as He desires them to be.

What you said is right, though! And I like to see that you have knowledge of the Old Testament.
 
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Oneofhope

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If anyone’s free will was messed with I would say it was Absolom because he was tricked into following the wrong advice.
Right. That's how Ahithophel's good advice was frustrated. It's an amazing story of Power and Control of the Lord. This kind of thing is rampant throughout the Bible. I could keep throwing example after example to you for weeks, maybe months by the time we got to them all. The Power of God is amazing . . . and I Fear Him Rightly.
 
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Oneofhope

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Unchecked Copy Box
2Sa 15:37 - So Hushai David's friend came into the city, and Absalom came into Jerusalem.

Unchecked Copy Box
2Sa 16:16 - And it came to pass, when Hushai the Archite, David's friend, was come unto Absalom, that Hushai said unto Absalom, God save the king, God save the king.

Hushai was a double agent. He was working for “his friend “ David

2Sa 17:7 - And Hushai said unto Absalom, The counsel that Ahithophel hath given is not good at this time.

Did you know that Ahithophel was Bathsheba’s grandfather and that probably had a lot to do with his turning against David?


I hear what you're saying, but this circumstance is happening because of David's sin. God is punishing David, through his own son, who will line up his father's women and apparently shag them from the rooftop of David's palace. These are the predictions of God and they all came True.

You know, people get so caught up in the details, which we then argue incessantly about, but the supreme point of these passages is the Sovereign Power and control over events, including the thoughts and actions of people . . . even animals.
 
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BPPLEE

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Right. That's how Ahithophel's good advice was frustrated. It's an amazing story of Power and Control of the Lord. This kind of thing is rampant throughout the Bible. I could keep throwing example after example to you for weeks, maybe months by the time we got to them all. The Power of God is amazing . . . and I Fear Him Rightly.
Of course God is in control. No one is disputing that
 
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BPPLEE

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I hear what you're saying, but this circumstance is happening because of David's sin. God is punishing David, through his own son, who will line up his father's women and apparently shag them from the rooftop of David's palace. These are the predictions of God and they all came True.

You know, people get so caught up in the details, which we then argue incessantly about, but the supreme point of these passages is the Sovereign Power and control over events, including the thoughts and actions of people . . . even animals.
God had determined what would happen and Nathan had foretold it.
"the narrator is sufficiently subtle (or guileless) to have Bathsheba's grandfather ... instigate the exaction of YHWH's pound of flesh," as Nathan's curse in 2 Samuel 12:11 comes to fruition.[1]
 
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Oneofhope

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God had determined what would happen and Nathan had foretold it.
"the narrator is sufficiently subtle (or guileless) to have Bathsheba's grandfather ... instigate the exaction of YHWH's pound of flesh," as Nathan's curse in 2 Samuel 12:11 comes to fruition.[1]
Sorry, but these things don't sound familiar to me. How about the following example of Effectual Prayer:

Nehemiah 1:11 NLT - 11 O Lord, please hear my prayer! Listen to the prayers of those of us who delight in honoring you. Please grant me success today by making the king favorable to me. Put it into his heart to be kind to me." In those days I was the king's cup-bearer."

The Babylonian kings along with Cyrus of Persia . . . God caused them all to behave as they did. What do you think of that? God controlled everything within the Babylonian exiles, their return . . . all of it points to Christ as the Davidic Covenant is put to the test.

So how do you feel about God controlling the minds of the kings to behave as they did toward Israel, both the good and the bad?
 
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Oneofhope

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Of course God is in control. No one is disputing that
But if people are not under His control through the means of free will (life with no intervention by the Lord), then God, obviously is not Sovereign.

Romans 7:5 NLT - 5 When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death.
Romans 8:9 NLT - 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)
 
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Oneofhope

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A person is never under the control of themselves. We are controlled by our Father, be it the Devil or God.

Self-control is actually Godly behavior. We can't even say that our sense of self-control is of ourselves, for those who are self-controlled are simply reflecting the fact that they are controlled by the Holy Spirit.

It's funny to think about: Even Satanists operate by Godly behavior, for if they aren't self-controlled in their meetings, members would be booted. Cracks me up . . . so blind.
 
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BPPLEE

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Sorry, but these things don't sound familiar to me. How about the following example of Effectual Prayer:

Nehemiah 1:11 NLT - 11 O Lord, please hear my prayer! Listen to the prayers of those of us who delight in honoring you. Please grant me success today by making the king favorable to me. Put it into his heart to be kind to me." In those days I was the king's cup-bearer."

The Babylonian kings along with Cyrus of Persia . . . God caused them all to behave as they did. What do you think of that? God controlled everything within the Babylonian exiles, their return . . . all of it points to Christ as the Davidic Covenant is put to the test.

So how do you feel about God controlling the minds of the kings to behave as they did toward Israel, both the good and the bad?
God is in control. But not mind control. He influenced Cyrus’ spirit.
 
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Oneofhope

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God is in control. But not mind control. He influenced Cyrus’ spirit.

If I were to influence your spirit, how would you feel about that? If I prayed to God that you were a specific way that was more like Christ, would that bother you, considering that prayers are Effectual?
 
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Rose_bud

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Hi there!!! :wave:

What I am saying is . . . for example . . . if you knew that I was praying things for you that you didn't want . . . how would you feel? If my prayers are Effectual, and the Bible is 100% clear on that, would you be concerned about my prayers if you disagreed with them?
:wave: If it was me, I'd say Gods will be done...:prayer: If it was someone else, I wouldn't know how they would feel unless I ask them. If they say no don't pray that way for me. I would say ok I won't pray that way.
 
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