Oklahoma: AP American History Banned For Not Teaching American Exceptionalism

[Audacious]

Oklahoma bill would make AP U.S. History history - CNN.com

For some reason the same bill requires students to read three speeches of Reagan, as if American history has a whole lot to do with presidential speeches and not historical events.

Part of moving forward as a country is to recognize mistakes so that we can refrain from making them again; this means that recognizing the bad, along with the good, is an extremely important part of US history. But this bill seems to want to focus more on the structure of government and president's speeches, rather than on actual events that occur within history, because actual history isn't pro-American enough.

A "pro-American" bias in any history class is a bad thing; we need to be teaching people facts about the history of their country, without regard to whether or not these things are good or bad. Students should be able to decide about America's history, and whether or not we're a good or a bad country, for themselves, without having patriotism force-fed to them. We're talking about people that are almost adults, here, not ten year olds.

 

[Red Fox]

I fully agree with you. I guess there are some people out there who don't want to make America look bad by telling the truth about its real history.

 

[Nithavela]

Hooray for manifest destiny.

 

[AirPo]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7863315/#post66964921

 

[Btodd]

Ugh. Not all of us are right-wing lunatics here in Oklahoma, but it's still a vast majority.


Btodd, embarrassed

 

[Oafman]

Guys, you are a wonderful bunch of people with a wonderful country (and a particularly wonderful constitution), but you really need to get over this idea of American Exceptionalism, because it's silly.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Guys, you are a wonderful bunch of people with a wonderful country (and a particularly wonderful constitution), but you really need to get over this idea of American Exceptionalism, because it's silly.

If it's such a silly idea, what alternative terminology would you use to describe the United States over the past 100 years.

- US defeated both Nazi Germany, after the collapse of Europe, and Japan.
- US defeated the Soviet Union, thus freeing Eastern Europe.
- US had the moral authority and power to become the world's policeman.
- US remains the world's economic engine

 

[Cearbhall]

Hooray for manifest destiny.

I read this whole story the other day. Lots of White Man's Burden. I also can't believe that they take issue with the course talking about the internment camps. Yeesh. Many of those victims are still alive!

If it's such a silly idea, what alternative terminology would you use to describe the United States over the past 100 years.

- US defeated both Nazi Germany, after the collapse of Europe, and Japan.

By wiping out entire cities of innocent people, which is another event that Oklahoma doesn't want high schoolers talking about. Notice that no other country has actually been crazy enough to use their atomic bombs.

 

[jazzflower92]

I read this whole story the other day. Lots of White Man's Burden. I also can't believe that they take issue with the course talking about the internment camps. Yeesh. Many of those victims are still alive!

By wiping out entire cities of innocent people, which is another event that Oklahoma doesn't want high schoolers talking about. Notice that no other country has actually been crazy enough to use their atomic bombs.

It was the lesser of the two evils decision. Besides Japan has a bit of trouble admitting their atrocities during the war.

 

[CQmethodist]

If it's such a silly idea, what alternative terminology would you use to describe the United States over the past 100 years.

- US defeated both Nazi Germany, after the collapse of Europe, and Japan.

This is incredibly asinine. The US hardly defeated Nazi Germany alone. The British and the Soviets never collapsed. In fact, the Soviets took more casualties from, and did more damage to, the Nazis than did American forces. Only the French collapsed, but after what they had gone through in World War I, it's hard to blame them.

- US defeated the Soviet Union, thus freeing Eastern Europe.

Please describe how the US "defeated" the Soviet Union. What did the US do that led directly to the USSR's collapse? The USSR was never going to survive. It was a despotic regime built upon a false premise.

- US had the moral authority and power to become the world's policeman.

You realize that's not a good thing, right?

- US remains the world's economic engine

Yet almost nothing is made here.

America is awesome. We don't have to over-inflate our accomplishments or run down other nations in order to make ourselves feel superior. We have a great deal to be proud of.

So does the United Kingdom. And France. And Germany. And Japan. And China.

And like the UK, and France, and Germany, and Japan, and China, we have a lot of things in our history we should not be proud of, as well.

US History should teach our kids all of that — the good, and the bad.

 

[Cearbhall]

It was the lesser of the two evils decision.

When your enemy kills 10 people, it hardly gives you the right to kill 9.

Besides Japan has a bit of trouble admitting their atrocities during the war.

I don't care what the other kids on the playground did. That's not a justification.

Since this thread isn't about the culmination of WWII, I'll end it there. My point is that events such as the atomic bombs and the internment camps are hugely important moral issues that shape how we respond to conflicts today, which is why APUSH gives high school students the chance to discuss them. Oklahoma wants to ban that dialogue.

 

[CQmethodist]

When your enemy kills 10 people, it hardly gives you the right to kill 9.

I don't care what the other kids on the playground did. That's not a justification.

I believe what the other poster is referring to is that the projected casualties for an invasion and long-term military occupation of Japan would have caused many times the numbers of deaths that the two bombings did among the Japanese population, to say nothing of Allied lives lost. That was the final factor in leading to the authorization of the use of the bomb.

 

[NightHawkeye]

This is incredibly asinine. The US hardly defeated Nazi Germany alone.

Does it sound better to you when I say that the US rescued the rest of the world from domination by the Axis powers in WWII. If the US hadn't given boatloads of military equipment to the Soviets and the US hadn't sent troops to China and the US hadn't directly entered the fighting, the rest of the world would have lived under Axis rule ... probably until this day.

The British and the Soviets never collapsed. In fact, the Soviets took more casualties from, and did more damage to, the Nazis than did American forces.

Neither were they able to win their battles themselves.

Please describe how the US "defeated" the Soviet Union. What did the US do that led directly to the USSR's collapse?

Reagan's economic pressure is well known, but I'll grant you that Gorbachev's "moral" reforms may have been more important.

Everything You Think You Know About the Collapse of the Soviet Union Is Wrong | Foreign Policy

Like virtually all modern revolutions, the latest Russian one was started by a hesitant liberalization "from above" — and its rationale extended well beyond the necessity to correct the economy or make the international environment more benign. The core of Gorbachev’s enterprise was undeniably idealistic: He wanted to build a more moral Soviet Union.

For though economic betterment was their banner, there is little doubt that Gorbachev and his supporters first set out to right moral, rather than economic, wrongs. Most of what they said publicly in the early days of perestroika now seems no more than an expression of their anguish over the spiritual decline and corrosive effects of the Stalinist past. It was the beginning of a desperate search for answers to the big questions with which every great revolution starts: What is a good, dignified life? What constitutes a just social and economic order? What is a decent and legitimate state? What should such a state’s relationship with civil society be?

"A new moral atmosphere is taking shape in the country," Gorbachev told the Central Committee at the January 1987 meeting where he declared glasnost — openness — and democratization to be the foundation of his perestroika, or restructuring, of Soviet society. "A reappraisal of values and their creative rethinking is under way." Later, recalling his feeling that "we couldn’t go on like that any longer, and we had to change life radically, break away from the past malpractices," he called it his "moral position."​

The USSR was never going to survive. It was a despotic regime built upon a false premise.

Agreed. It was built on LIES.

You realize that's not a good thing, right?

Of course. Noting that I'm on record backing Ron Paul.

Yet almost nothing is made here.

LOL ... that's not a good thing, either.

America is awesome. We don't have to over-inflate our accomplishments or run down other nations in order to make ourselves feel superior. We have a great deal to be proud of.

Indeed we do. So, what's the gripe about American exceptionalism?

So does the United Kingdom. And France. And Germany. And Japan. And China.

Noting that they toot their own horns regularly.

And like the UK, and France, and Germany, and Japan, and China, we have a lot of things in our history we should not be proud of, as well.

No argument.

US History should teach our kids all of that — the good, and the bad.

Agreed.

Again, what's the issue with promoting "American exceptionalism"?

 

[Oafman]

If it's such a silly idea, what alternative terminology would you use to describe the United States over the past 100 years.

Don't pretend that America can't take pride in its many achievements without referencing the baggage of

manifest destiny.

which accompanies most peoples' interpretation of American excptionalism.

- US defeated both Nazi Germany, after the collapse of Europe, and Japan.

This could not have been achieved without America, but it also could not have been achieved without Russia or Britain. And please don't fall into the popular trap of thinking that it was only the US which had to sacrifice thousands of its young men to defeat Japan. Actually, that's an example of my problem with American exceptionalism, and the thinking it encourages - selective history

- US defeated the Soviet Union, thus freeing Eastern Europe.

The USSR defeated itself, because it had an unsustainable economic system, and because totalitarianism is flawed. It wasn't the proxy wars which defeated it.

- US had the moral authority and power to become the world's policeman.

Whilst I agree with this to a point (yet another reason to thank the wisdom of your Founding Fathers) much of the world doesn't. And recent events (Guantanamo, torture etc) have chipped away at the validity of this statement

- US remains the world's economic engine

It does, but no longer by such a margin, and less so every day. Anyway, this is not a product of American exceptionalism, as I understand the term.

My problem is with the fatalism that accompanies it; the manifest destiny which persists even today. It's just nationalism, backed up by a few valid examples. When a people believes it is exceptional, it becomes very easy to dehumanise others, and history repeatedly tells us what that results in.

 

[rambot]

Again, what's the issue with promoting "American exceptionalism"?

What's the fear in exposing your children to less exceptional events in your history?

 

[Oafman]

[Does it sound better to you when I say that the US rescued the rest of the world from domination by the Axis powers in WWII. If the US hadn't given boatloads of military equipment to the Soviets and the US hadn't sent troops to China and the US hadn't directly entered the fighting, the rest of the world would have lived under Axis rule ... probably until this day.

Undoubtedly. But if Russia - and its winter - had not fought so fiercely, and if Britain had not held a foothold from which an assault on Europe could be mounted, history would be very different.

]Noting that they toot their own horns regularly.

But they don't typically claim some sort of uniqueness

]Again, what's the issue with promoting "American exceptionalism"?

I'm not sure you are

 

[Cearbhall]

So, what's the gripe about American exceptionalism?

A history class should be as objective as possible, not promote an ethnocentric agenda. This is especially true for AP courses, which are standardized and are at a university level. They're about facilitating discussion, increasing awareness, and improving critical thinking skills.

 

[NightHawkeye]

My problem is with the fatalism that accompanies it; the manifest destiny which persists even today. It's just nationalism, backed up by a few valid examples. When a people believes it is exceptional, it becomes very easy to dehumanise others, and history repeatedly tells us what that results in.

I agree with you about "Manifest destiny".

My interpretation of "American exceptionalism" has mostly to do with the unleashing of individual freedoms so that people can pursue their own dreams as best they are able. Although the US has succumbed in recent years to a more stratified society (aka caste system) which is so prevalent in the rest of the world, it remains true that tremendous social mobility is possible in the United States. The opportunity for personal advancement is why so many people come to the US.

The essence of "American exceptionalism", from my perspective at least, is individuals making decisions in their own best interests which collectively are much more productive than the central planning decisions which are made for citizens throughout most of the rest of the world.

 

[TerranceL]

- US defeated both Nazi Germany, after the collapse of Europe, and Japan.
- US defeated the Soviet Union, thus freeing Eastern Europe.

If only we had no allies and it was just us...........

- US had the moral authority and power to become the world's policeman.

Yeah! It's so great that we get to send our young people off to die for the welfare of other countries... GO US!

- US remains the world's economic engine

The US is a middle class country spending like it's a rich one. At some point the bill will have to be paid and we will be found wanting.

 

[TerranceL]

By wiping out entire cities of innocent people, which is another event that Oklahoma doesn't want high schoolers talking about. Notice that no other country has actually been crazy enough to use their atomic bombs.

I guess you're right it would have been much better if we just invaded by land which would have cost both side considerably more dead and added years to the war.