Nuclear deal with Iran - good or bad?

Dave RP

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It seems a deal has been struck with Iran to allow them to continue developing nuclear power and to release some sanctions. Is this a good or bad thing, personally I think that it is a good thing and will hopefully show other countries around the world that cooperation with the rest of the world will bring positive results.
 

Oafman

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Excellent news.

Now we wait to see if the hard-line warmongering religious extremists will accept the deal. But enough about Congress. Hopefully the Iranians will also stick to it.
 
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Dave RP

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Excellent news.

Now we wait to see if the hard-line warmongering religious extremists will accept the deal. But enough about Congress. Hopefully the Iranians will also stick to it.

And Israel may accept an internationally agreed deal as well, for a change!
 
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KWCrazy

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Why would you want to give a nation of Islamic extremists pledged to the elimination of Israel a nuclear weapon? That's beyond stupidity. Either this president is complete idiot, or his hatred of the west know no limitations. If Iraq gets a nuclear bomb they will use it to destroy Israel. They've said as much repeatedly.

Here's the fallout (literally). Israel is a nuclear power. They're not going to sit idly by while madmen achieve nuclear capability. Israel will HAVE TO make a pre-emptive strike to prevent annihilation. With Iran's centrifuges deep underground that means some kind of nuclear weapon. This STUPIDITY on the part of the fool on the hill will make a bloody war in the Middle East an absolute certainty. Iran doesn't need nuclear energy. The price of gasoline in Iran is only 0.3 Euro's per liter which is 70% lower than the average world price of gasoline.

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good deal.
 
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Oafman

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And Israel may accept an internationally agreed deal as well, for a change!
They definitely won't accept this deal, but they don't get a say. Israel are against any negotiation with Iran.

Why would you want to give a nation of Islamic extremists pledged to the elimination of Israel a nuclear weapon? That's beyond stupidity. Either this president is complete idiot, or his hatred of the west know no limitations. If Iraq gets a nuclear bomb they will use it to destroy Israel. They've said as much repeatedly.

Here's the fallout (literally). Israel is a nuclear power. They're not going to sit idly by while madmen achieve nuclear capability. Israel will HAVE TO make a pre-emptive strike to prevent annihilation. With Iran's centrifuges deep underground that means some kind of nuclear weapon. This STUPIDITY on the part of the fool on the hill will make a bloody war in the Middle East an absolute certainty. Iran doesn't need nuclear energy. The price of gasoline in Iran is only 0.3 Euro's per liter which is 70% lower than the average world price of gasoline.

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good deal.
If you believe that the status quo prevents Iran from getting the bomb then you're being very naive. Even airstrikes would only delay their program by 3-5 years. The destruction of the enrichment facilities, and the disposal of material already enriched, combined with the IAEA's ability to monitor progress of this, is our best hope of preventing them from developing a functioning warhead.
 
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Dave RP

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Why would you want to give a nation of Islamic extremists pledged to the elimination of Israel a nuclear weapon? That's beyond stupidity. Either this president is complete idiot, or his hatred of the west know no limitations. If Iraq gets a nuclear bomb they will use it to destroy Israel. They've said as much repeatedly.

Here's the fallout (literally). Israel is a nuclear power. They're not going to sit idly by while madmen achieve nuclear capability. Israel will HAVE TO make a pre-emptive strike to prevent annihilation. With Iran's centrifuges deep underground that means some kind of nuclear weapon. This STUPIDITY on the part of the fool on the hill will make a bloody war in the Middle East an absolute certainty. Iran doesn't need nuclear energy. The price of gasoline in Iran is only 0.3 Euro's per liter which is 70% lower than the average world price of gasoline.

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good deal.

The deal is supposed to prevent them getting a nuclear weapon.

Israel is a nuclear power, illegally and against all treaties. Israel invaded and annexed adjoining countries land (illegally) and continues to build an apartheid state (illegally) on that land. Israel ignores UN resolutions repeatedly and now you're saying Israel will murder millions of innocent Iranians just because they disagree with an internationally agreed deal.

Then you're telling us it's Iran we should fear........
 
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KWCrazy

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They definitely won't accept this deal, but they don't get a say. Israel are against any negotiation with Iran.
That's because the leader of Israel isn't a moron. Unfortunately, the leader of the US is.
If you believe that the status quo prevents Iran from getting the bomb then you're being very naive.
No, but sanctions have crippled their economy. Increasing the sanctions would do even more. NOBODY should do ANY business with Iran while their stated goal is the destruction of Israel.
Even airstrikes would only delay their program by 3-5 years.
If you limited them to military targets, probably. Of course, if I were Israel I would offer peace and when that failed, i would take out Tehran. You can't live in peace and harmony with rattlesnakes. Sorry to burst your bubble. When an enemy has pledged to kill you, you only live if you kill him first. That's the real world. Some evil is too profound to be dealt with civilly.
The destruction of the enrichment facilities, and the disposal of material already enriched, combined with the IAEA's ability to monitor progress of this, is our best hope of preventing them from developing a functioning warhead.
That worked well for Iraq, didn't it? The only thing that worked with Iraq is the personal greed of the scientists who took the money and faked the research.
 
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KWCrazy

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The deal is supposed to prevent them getting a nuclear weapon.
Sorry if you believe that. It doesn't.
Israel is a nuclear power, illegally and against all treaties. Israel invaded and annexed adjoining countries land (illegally)
Sorry, but that's not true. They kept territory taken in war from when they were attacked without cause or warning by their neighbors. It's called the spoils of war. How do you think we got Texas?
and continues to build an apartheid state (illegally) on that land.
Completely false. In Israel, Arabs have full voting rights and more freedom then they would have in any Arab nation.
Israel ignores UN resolutions repeatedly and now you're saying Israel will murder millions of innocent Iranians just because they disagree with an internationally agreed deal.
The UN is a joke. That's like having all of your enemies vote that you should jump off a building but you ignore their resolution. Spectacular lack of understanding there.
 
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grasping the after wind

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he destruction of the enrichment facilities, and the disposal of material already enriched, combined with the IAEA's ability to monitor progress of this, is our best hope of preventing them from developing a functioning warhead.

Is there any evidence that any of that will happen?
 
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Dave RP

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That's because the leader of Israel isn't a moron. Unfortunately, the leader of the US is.

No, but sanctions have crippled their economy. Increasing the sanctions would do even more. NOBODY should do ANY business with Iran while their stated goal is the destruction of Israel.

If you limited them to military targets, probably. Of course, if I were Israel I would offer peace and when that failed, i would take out Tehran. You can't live in peace and harmony with rattlesnakes. Sorry to burst your bubble. When an enemy has pledged to kill you, you only live if you kill him first. That's the real world. Some evil is too profound to be dealt with civilly.

"Take out Tehran" - Murder millions of innocent people, nice guy aren't you.


That worked well for Iraq, didn't it? The only thing that worked with Iraq is the personal greed of the scientists who took the money and faked the research.

I think you'll find that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, and has been plunged into catastrophe by western interference, fancy a repeat do you?
 
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Armoured

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It seems a deal has been struck with Iran to allow them to continue developing nuclear power and to release some sanctions. Is this a good or bad thing, personally I think that it is a good thing and will hopefully show other countries around the world that cooperation with the rest of the world will bring positive results.
But... but... Benghazi! Muslims! Israel!
 
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Armoured

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Who needs negotiated agreements when you have the mightiest military in history? LET'S HAVE A WAR! There's some mighty fine money to be made!
I read an article recently that suggested that, to a certain personality, any peaceful diplomatic agreement is less desirable than a post surrender treaty. Engaging in any sort of diplomacy is inherently weak and underhanded, while war is strong and righteous. It's a worrying thought that many people apparently believe this.
 
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RDKirk

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Who needs negotiated agreements when you have the mightiest military in history? LET'S HAVE A WAR! There's some mighty fine money to be made!
It has become pretty clear to me that there are some factions in the US who are pushing hard for war with Iran. You have the same people who argue for ground troops in Iraq--who will inevitably create a situation that Iran will have to respond to. Those same people are arguing for attacking Iran directly or at least putting them into the same position as the US put Japan in 1938, goading them into attacking the US.
 
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Dave RP

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Sorry if you believe that. It doesn't.

Sorry, but that's not true. They kept territory taken in war from when they were attacked without cause or warning by their neighbors. It's called the spoils of war. How do you think we got Texas?

So that makes it Ok does it? The fact that they continue to build JEWISH settlements in the occupied territories is a form of apartheid.


Completely false. In Israel, Arabs have full voting rights and more freedom then they would have in any Arab nation.

In 1948, the Jewish minority formally declared the existence of Israel in the Palestine Mandate. During the war of 1948, the vast majority of Palestinians living in Palestine were either expelled or forced to leave temporarily in order to avoid the war. After the war, most Palestinians were not allowed, under Israeli law, to return to their homeland, thus becoming refugees in neighboring Arab countries.

The Palestinians now living in Israel represent the remaining members of the Arab community of Palestine which was devastated by the mass exodus of the population during and after the war of 1948. In that year, about 170,000 Palestinians became citizens of Israel, most of them living in rural areas. Today, the Arab Palestinian citizens of Israel comprise about 20% of the total population, approximately 1 million citizens.

yes they are technically equal but this "equality" has been restricted. Although the Arab Palestinians were formally granted equal rights as Israeli citizens, between 1948 and 1966, they were subject to strict military control, and most of their lands were confiscated and "nationalized" by the state. Furthermore, under military rule, they were subject to harsh restrictions of basic rights, such as the freedom of movement between villages and cities. This movement was allowed only with a special permit from the military governor.

sign.jpg
The Arab minority in Israel has never been recognized by the State of Israel as a national minority. The national, ethnic, and linguistic character of the Arab community has been consistently ignored and has often resulted in discrimination by the Israeli Government. In general, Israel has recognized and treated its Arab citizens as members of religious minorities and this is how they are often described in internal official documents: Minorities. In addition, in the context of the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict, the Arab minority has been treated as a hostile element; the Arab Palestinians have been suspected of being "a fifth column" and often described as a "Trojan Horse" in the Jewish State. As a result, a deep division and inequality in almost all fields remains between the Arab minority and the Jewish majority in Israel.


The UN is a joke. That's like having all of your enemies vote that you should jump off a building but you ignore their resolution. Spectacular lack of understanding there.

The UN may be a joke but it is the only world wide nationally recognised organisation representing the whole world.
 
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They kept territory taken in war from when they were attacked without cause or warning by their neighbors. It's called the spoils of war. How do you think we got Texas?

Actually the US got Texas because on October 13, 1845, a large majority of voters in the Republic oif Texas approved a US offer of annexation. We later fought a war with Mexico not to annex Texas (we had already done that) but because the southern border of Texas had never been absolutely determined.
 
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RDKirk

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Why would you want to give a nation of Islamic extremists pledged to the elimination of Israel a nuclear weapon? That's beyond stupidity.

The problem with that viewpoint is the idea that anything is "given" to Iran. Iran is going to develop a nuclear weapon, just like the USSR did, just like Pakistan did, just like India did, just like Israel did.

The reason Iran will develop a nuclear weapon is because the US has made a clear its intention of invading Iran just as the US invaded Iraq...and on pretenses just as false if necessary. The US has also made it clear that the US government will not honor any agreement anyway. The US has made its position as Iran's absolutely implacable enemy perfectly clear. It would be beyond stupidity for Iran not to develop nuclear weapons.

"Never frighten a smaller man; he will shoot you." -- Robert A. Heinlein
 
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Armoured

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Actually the US got Texas because on October 13, 1845, a large majority of voters in the Republic oif Texas approved a US offer of annexation. We later fought a war with Mexico not to annex Texas (we had already done that) but because the southern border of Texas had never been absolutely determined.
You think factual historical accuracy is a big motivator here?
 
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Oafman

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That's because the leader of Israel isn't a moron. Unfortunately, the leader of the US is.

This is not a deal between Obama and Iran. It is a deal between the US, the UK, France, China, Russia, the EU and Iran. All of those countries agree that this is the best way of preventing an Iranian bomb.


No, but sanctions have crippled their economy. Increasing the sanctions would do even more. NOBODY should do ANY business with Iran while their stated goal is the destruction of Israel.
Whatever the previous bluster from Tehran, you need to get out of your head the idea that they would develop a bomb, point it at Tel Aviv and press the red button. North Korea has not yet nuked Seoul and they are even more crazy than the Iranians.

If you limited them to military targets, probably. Of course, if I were Israel I would offer peace and when that failed, i would take out Tehran. You can't live in peace and harmony with rattlesnakes. Sorry to burst your bubble. When an enemy has pledged to kill you, you only live if you kill him first. That's the real world. Some evil is too profound to be dealt with civilly.

You would "take out Tehran"? You're starting to sound like the General from Dr Strangelove.


That worked well for Iraq, didn't it? The only thing that worked with Iraq is the personal greed of the scientists who took the money and faked the research.
The warmongers were wrong about Iraq. You could be forgiven for thinking that error might make them reconsider their stance on Iran, but obviously it has not...
 
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2015/07/14/excerpts-iran-nuclear-deal/

Did I miss the inspections to verify Iran's compliance? I see a lot of checking and verifying but I see nothing about inspections to verify everything Iran shows on paper is real in fact.

Count down to Iran's first nuclear weapon is also the count down to the first nuke that terrorists will get. Iran will keep the first, "just in case". But the second will be delivered to one of it's private militaries to be used on it's primary targets. Not sure if it would be Israel, England or USA. Probably stay across the pond, less likely to be noticed. Unless of course they send it to our southern border, then you could almost drive a GLCM Tel across the border there.
 
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