Norway Begins Adoption Process for 5 Children Seized From Christian Parents

[The Cadet]

Wren you are right, it's not nbc.com
there are actually clerks who got jailed because they refused to marry gay people
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/03/kentucky-clerk-contempt-of-court-marriage-licenses

Except that she wasn't jailed for refusing to marry gay people, she was jailed for refusing to:
a) Do her job
b) Leave her job

If she had done either of those things after a court had explicitly ordered her to do so, she wouldn't be in jail. If you actually read the story, rather than just taking only the details that appeal to you, you might know this. You might also know that Kim Davis is a laughingstock worldwide, and the politicians that stood up to stump for her doubly so. She tried to use her religious beliefs as an excuse to deny freedoms to others and avoid doing her job. That's not okay, and the court agreed - she was ordered to do her job. When she continued to refuse, she was charged with contempt of court and placed in jail.

 

[vasile]

I read them using google translate. It's not about this family but about the CPS system. It doesn't analyse in depth the problems but only pointing there are problems that the government ignore...
A few days ago I said to TheNorwegian that media in Norway don't cover very much the CPS problem...
Some friends from Norway told me there was on TV a 60-70 seconds report about this situation recently.. After almost two months of international protests...

There are many Romanian people living and working in Norway. I know many of them already left the country, many of them plan to leave it soon...
They have no problem with the authorities, many of them don't beat their children but are afraid.
If somebody calls CPS for any reason, real or not, they can loose their children at least for a few months.
This is first of all why I condemn Barnevernet. You cannot seize children based on somebody's impression without a prior investigation. I lived in a communist country and this was the method of the cruel Communist Secret Police.
TheNorwegian asked me also what is my expertise on Norway.
I only can tell you that Norwegian people are most of them wonderful people (I've been in Norway in 1994) but the CPS system must be changed.

Politicians and media fail in child care
https://translate.google.ro/transla...er-i-barnevernssaker/o/5-76-240608&edit-text=

When the state funds a newspaper I doubt they will really stand against the state system
http://journalisten.no/2014/11/711-millioner-i-statsstotte

It's in Norwegian but Just see the Statistic Table from the article



Korsets Seier, Pentecostal weekly newspaper, is among the five weeklies, which still gets support. The newspaper got last year 2 million kroner...
Again, I doubt they will really stand against the state system. They also receive money from the state for every registered member.
https://translate.google.ro/transla...-idag-mister-pressestøtten-1.80571&edit-text=

 

[TheNorwegian]

There are many Romanian people living and working in Norway. I know many of them already left the country, many of them plan to leave it soon...
They have no problem with the authorities, many of them don't beat their children but are afraid.

This is one of the reasons why this whole "Barnevernet is evil" lie is so dangerous. Immigrants start to fear the Government, not because of a real danger, but because of false rumours being spread. The result is that if CPS contacts them they are likely to slam the door in their face, rather that talk to them calmly. Such behaviour will hurt the communication between parents and CPS. The Bodnariu case is an extreme version of this: Rather than talking calmly to the CPS to hear their concerns, they go full out war on CPS - using what is obviously lies (claiming persecution of Christians) to get sympathy form people who knows next to nothing about Norway

I recently talked to a pastor of an immigrant church in Oslo, and he sees this is a major problem: Some people in his congregation have an irrational fear of the Government, and now he wonders how he can teach his congregations to make helpful response to CPS if they come to them. People who spread conspiracy theories and lies can make life very hard for people they do not know - in this case the 99% of immigrant families in Norway who are law-abiding.

In general, Norwegian like people from Romania. As you say, most of them are honest, hard-working, and law-abiding. However, when people in Romania choose to support one of the couples who admittedly breaks the law - and intend to continue to do so - it has a negative effect on the view of all Romanians. Some Norwegians begin to see Romanians as "those who insist to beat their children". So, the real victims (in addition to the Bodnariu children) in this case are the "good" Romanian families

When the state funds a newspaper I doubt they will really stand against the state system

Coming form an ex-Communist country I understand your suspicion. Howerever, this is no different from BBC in the UK, which is widely regarded as one of the most reliable TV-stations in the world. In fact BBC relies solely on Government grants

This particular newspaper (Dagen) has proven it's willingness to stand up against the state system on many occasions. You should research "Dagen" and "Mohammad cartoons" for the most famous example of this. But there are plenty of other cases were they went for the throat of the Government.

Korsets Seier, Pentecostal weekly newspaper, is among the five weeklies, which still gets support. The newspaper got last year 2 million kroner...
Again, I doubt they will really stand against the state system. They also receive money from the state for every registered member.

The article I referred to was not a journalistic peace, but an official statement from the Pentecostal Denomination. Do you seriously think that Korset Seier would alter an official statement?

 

[vasile]

Immigrants start to fear the Government, not because of a real danger, but because of false rumours being spread.

common, do you expect me to believe that?
There are so many cases. Are they all based on false rumors?
we have a thing now called internet.

about the "christian indoctrination" so-called lie let me tell you what we know from the source, Bodnariu family.
You are free to call them liars if you like.

The first document they received from CPS regarding this case contained the acusation of "Radical Christianity" and "physical abuse". The school principal had previously some disputes with Bodnariu family related to Christian teachings and the songs the girl were singing at school.
Finally, Barnevernet didn't use the accusation of "radical Christianity" anymore but this happened only after the parents made public this accusation. So the parents changed the information again and made it public that now there is only the "physical abuse" accusation.

Maybe we were wrong believing Bodnariu
Maybe you were wrong calling them "false rumours being spread"
We will see!

 

[TheNorwegian]

about the "christian indoctrination" so-called lie let me tell you what we know from the source, Bodnariu family.
You are free to call them liars if you like.

The first document they received from CPS regarding this case contained the acusation of "Radical Christianity" and "physical abuse". The school principal had previously some disputes with Bodnariu family related to Christian teachings and the songs the girl were singing at school.
Finally, Barnevernet didn't use the accusation of "radical Christianity" anymore but this happened only after the parents made public this accusation. So the parents changed the information again and made it public that now there is only the "physical abuse" accusation.

Maybe we were wrong believing Bodnariu
Maybe you were wrong calling them "false rumours being spread"
We will see!

The false rumours I refer to is that "radical Christianity" has anything to do with losing custody. I am a Christian parent myself and I know many other Norwegian Christian parents (immigrants and ethnic Norwegians). We all teach our children about God, but none of us have lost custody. I think I know more than most people on this forum about raising children in Norway, teaching them to love God. You are of course free to trust google and conspiracy theories more than me

 

[TheNorwegian]

She told me this morning that she'd thought about joining here just to put in her own thoughts as a Norwegian Christian, but decided against it because there would be little use. I think she's right. It's like that meme of someone telling his wife he can't come to bed because he's doing something very important - arguing with someone who is wrong on the internet. Lol. I don't think that many rational people are going to buy into conspiracy theories and think the Norwegian government persecutes Christians. Those who do cannot be reasoned with so there's no point trying. Though this thread has been interesting to read, so there's that.

You are probably right, I am wasting my time. You are a clever young lady

Some people will believe in conspiracy theories no matter what you tell them. I do not think I can convince them, but there are maybe some others who will read my comments and not buy into the lies. At least this was my hope, but I may be wrong

 

[vasile]

In three weeks this case will hopefully be discussed in European Parliament
I hope you won't say the Parliament believe in conspiracy too

 

[TheNorwegian]

In three weeks this case will hopefully be discussed in European Parliament
I hope you won't say the Parliament believe in conspiracy too

That remains to be seen. Often the politicians are more concerned with what those that elected them feel than they are about truth. Even more so, since Norway is not part of the EU - so it does not really matter much what they say. It will only be for the viewers and have no political meaning. Whatever the EU parliament decide will not affect the laws in Norway (Thank God!)

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

All I know is that where I live, Child Protective Services doesn't need any proof to take children from good families, based on a literal whim of a physician, or on some other perceived 'expert' in society (usually someone who works in a government institution).

It's real people. It's happening. The government can and will take your kids away, and the burden of proof and need to fight back will fall to the parent to get the kid back. (seen it in action and even testified in court in a similar case).

It's even worse when it is a sick child and the parents do not believe in pharmaceutical cancer treatment. Then the dying child will be taken away and forced into whatever treatment the government says is best.

 

[The Cadet]

It's even worse when it is a sick child and the parents do not believe in pharmaceutical cancer treatment. Then the dying child will be taken away and forced into whatever treatment the government says is best.

Yes, because god forbid a child not die of a treatable illness because of their parents' stupidity. I'm sorry, is this supposed to invoke concern? You're talking about life-threatening medical neglect here.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yes, because god forbid a child not die of a treatable illness because of their parents' stupidity. I'm sorry, is this supposed to invoke concern? You're talking about life-threatening medical neglect here.

Oh, yeah. But if you care to research it, many scientists and researchers are saying radiation, chemo, and surgery are not the answers for cancer treatment we once thought, and might actually do a LOT more harm.

So, it's like a child being taken and tortured. And the parents, who love the child the most, having to stand helplessly by and do nothing, or comply with this evil agenda.

 

[The Cadet]

Oh, yeah. But if you care to research it, many scientists and researchers are saying radiation, chemo, and surgery are not the answers for cancer treatment we once thought, and might actually do a LOT more harm.

"Many scientists and researchers"... You mean like "Doctor" Mercola? For most types of cancer, chemo, radiation, and surgery are the gold standard. There are other modalities for a handful, but if you pick a cancer, chances are good that your best shot at surviving it involves some combination of the three.

Case in point: Sarah Herschberger. Her prognosis was extremely positive with chemotherapy. This was a type of cancer at a stage where we could definitely beat it. By removing her from Chemo, her parents significantly reduced her odds of survival. She pulled through, which is definitely a good thing, but there was no reason for them to make that decision. They were not medical experts, they were patently wrong, and they put their child at risk.

 

[Cimorene]

I'm taking out my post because it's just not worth trying to debate on something that delusional.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

"Many scientists and researchers"... You mean like "Doctor" Mercola? For most types of cancer, chemo, radiation, and surgery are the gold standard. There are other modalities for a handful, but if you pick a cancer, chances are good that your best shot at surviving it involves some combination of the three.

Case in point: Sarah Herschberger. Her prognosis was extremely positive with chemotherapy. This was a type of cancer at a stage where we could definitely beat it. By removing her from Chemo, her parents significantly reduced her odds of survival. She pulled through, which is definitely a good thing, but there was no reason for them to make that decision. They were not medical experts, they were patently wrong, and they put their child at risk.

Oh, yeah. There are a whole bunch of us naturalists into more traditional healing modalities, and not so much into atheistic allopathic medicine. We aren't crazy or delusional. We are smart.

After all, you are really just putting your life into the hands of big pharma, with big money issues. Does that sound smart?

 

[The Cadet]

Oh, yeah. There are a whole bunch of us naturalists into more traditional healing modalities, and not so much into atheistic allopathic medicine.

We aren't crazy or delusional.

I'm just gonna let this sit here. "Atheistic allopathic medicine". Wow. Hey, call me back when your sugar pills lead to a consistent drop in cancer mortality rates, willya?

 

[keith99]

Oh, yeah. There are a whole bunch of us naturalists into more traditional healing modalities, and not so much into atheistic allopathic medicine. We aren't crazy or delusional. We are smart.

After all, you are really just putting your life into the hands of big pharma, with big money issues. Does that sound smart?

Do you find things?

 

[Black Dog]

They may take my Allied Atheist Alliance card for this but there are a few things to realize about these verses. The most obvious is that the parents cannot do this without bearing false witness unless the son is a glutton and drunkard. But more important is that this would be disgraceful for the parents. It is going to a central place and saying we failed, we could not control our child, we are royal screw-ups. This seems to be born out because it seems there are no recorded instances of this occurring.

First, I promise not to tell! LOL, second, I agree.

But speaking for myself, it is things like this that made me realize that the bible wasn't perfect, or even close to it. Things like this made me realize that the bible should not be used as a moral guide. Things like this that made me realize the God of the bible wasn't perfect or close to it. From what I understand, I'm not alone in this.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Do you find things?

What do you mean peguy?

 

[The Cadet]

After all, you are really just putting your life into the hands of big pharma

Because homeopathic practitioners make no money whatsoever, right?

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2014/03/20/big-pharma-vs-big-placebo/

And the best part is, because they have virtually no research and they're basically selling crap that doesn't work anyways, their R&D costs are almost completely negligible. That's far more profit.

 

[vasile]

"We now have a huge crowd in all social stratification who are afraid of child protection."
Lawyer Christian Wulff Hansen assists clients in cases under the Children Act and the Child Welfare Act.

the original article
http://barnerettsbloggen.no/nar-man-blir-redd-for-de-som-skal-hjelpe/

with Google Translate
https://translate.google.com/transl...-blir-redd-for-de-som-skal-hjelpe/&edit-text=

Just another poor Norwegian lawyer who believes in conspiracies.