Norway Begins Adoption Process for 5 Children Seized From Christian Parents

[Cimorene]

Child psychologists wanted me on ritalin and numerous other drugs back when I was a kid. They were wrong.

Child psychologists thought there was something wrong with my brother because he would rock when he was sitting. They told my mom to have him institutionalized. They were wrong.

If you put your faith in child psychologists, you're putting your faith in textbooks that don't take children's individuality into consideration.

Not to be rude, but that's an illogical argument to me. In every profession there is someone who gets it wrong, but that doesn't mean the entire profession should be discredited. Pediatricians have misdiagnosed kids before, but on the whole they're far better trained in medicine than parents. My best friend saw child psychiatrists who both wanted her to be put on medicine. Her mom decided to ignore that and change her diet instead. I think her mom considered her individuality too much instead of actually finding out about the condition and how her behavior was totally common for it. She cut out gluten, red dye, sugar, corn syrup. It didn't help at all. It made her miserable, and did not nothing to resolve the problem. What did help profoundly was taking the medicine that was recommended. It's not this either / or where parents either blindly follow the experts' advice and peer reviewed studies about everything or they act on their own observations and instincts.

 

[ken777]

Not to be rude, but that's an illogical argument to me. In every profession there is someone who gets it wrong, but that doesn't mean the entire profession should be discredited. Pediatricians have misdiagnosed kids before, but on the whole they're far better trained in medicine than parents. My best friend saw child psychiatrists who both wanted her to be put on medicine. Her mom decided to ignore that and change her diet instead. I think her mom considered her individuality too much instead of actually finding out about the condition and how her behavior was totally common for it. She cut out gluten, red dye, sugar, corn syrup. It didn't help at all. It made her miserable, and did not nothing to resolve the problem. What did help profoundly was taking the medicine that was recommended. It's not this either / or where parents either blindly follow the experts' advice and peer reviewed studies about everything or they act on their own observations and instincts.

One of the problems is that doctors are well trained in medical treatments but seem to know little about behaviour modification techniques, or perhaps it is that exploring these techniques with parents takes up too much of their time. Psychiatrists too tend to prefer a medical response. Child psychologists are the best option in my opinion.

 

[jargew]

This story is completely bogus and the parents are lying (obviously, in my opinion). Has anyone been to Norway? It's a very advanced country and between 1-5% of the population attend evangelical Christian churches. To think children would be taken from parents in Norway for being "Christian" is utterly nonsensical.
Speaking about this situation, a local authority said :

"The Norwegian authorities will only take custody of a minor against his will when “there is severe negligence, like violence and abuse, or when the child´s health is in danger because the parents cannot take good care of him”, Andersen continued."

See more: http://evangelicalfocus.com/europe/...bout_child_protection_in_Norway_embassy_spain

 

[Armoured]

I've never found that. I've always found that spanking with a rational discussion after the fact STOPS the behavior that caused the need for the spanking. I have never been frustrated or angry when I was spanking my children.

Good for you. Is that true for many others, do you think?

 

[Armoured]

Arguments based on extremes are dishonest.

Saved for future reference.

 

[ken777]

Saved for future reference.

let's not get personal.

 

[Black Dog]

The only flaw is in your use of an extreme example to try to make a point.
Parents who care about their children train & discipline them and this can include corporal punishment which I have stated previously should be mild, infrequent and not applied in anger. Physical abuse (at least in my country) is defined by law and distinguished from parental physical discipline by specific criteria.

Good, you've added "should be mild, infrequent, and not applied in anger" to your definition of "good spanking". That's an improvement to be sure.

And as society has gone from the ancient "kill your unruly son", to "spare the rod, spoil the child" to your more enlightened definition, surely society will eventually move to "physically abusing a child is wrong", and will look back at spanking as a barbaric practice from the past.

 

[Black Dog]

Arguments based on extremes are dishonest.

Congratulations on your "Eureka!" moment!

That "dishonest extreme" you speak of is exactly what the bible advocates: Deuteronomy 21: 18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.

Now you can see why so many atheists say what converted them was actually reading the bible. Once someone realizes the truth, how can they use a book that, according to you, advocates "extremes" to the point of "dishonesty" as a moral guide without lying to themselves?

 

[Cimorene]

One of the problems is that doctors are well trained in medical treatments but seem to know little about behaviour modification techniques, or perhaps it is that exploring these techniques with parents takes up too much of their time. Psychiatrists too tend to prefer a medical response. Child psychologists are the best option in my opinion.

My friend's condition is medical & psychological so I think that's why she saw a psychiatrist. The medicine has helped a ton. She does therapy too.

 

[Butterfly99]

Congratulations on your "Eureka!" moment!

That "dishonest extreme" you speak of is exactly what the bible advocates: Deuteronomy 21: 18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.

Now you can see why so many atheists say what converted them was actually reading the bible. Once someone realizes the truth, how can they use a book that, according to you, advocates "extremes" to the point of "dishonesty" as a moral guide without lying to themselves?

Yeah my mom has friends who studied religion in college & then became atheist. That was mainly in undergrad I think. I think deeper study of Scripture can be challenging & unsettling. She got her Th.D from Duke Divinity School & it took like five yrs all together (broken up though cause she got her masters & then she went back for her doctorate), & that was after going to college. She definitely spent a long time studying Scripture & she's still a Christian. I think exegesis is so important. Cause lots of times ppl are against the Bible cause of a really simple, kinda crude reading of it. I mean lots are reading the Bible in English & taking it word for word literal w/out context & stuff. That can definitely lead to problems. Not saying that's what you did when you became atheist at all, & no offense intended. I'm saying I see Christians do that all the time here & tbh it shocks me & I think if I weren't a Christian it would do damage for real. So yeah Duke way back in the 1990s when she'd started it had already been against corporal punishment & then the Methodist church passed the resolution. Scripture also makes it clear we're supposed to obey laws so even if those parents disagree on that they should have obeyed the laws of Norway.
http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/discipline-children-without-corporal-punishment

 

[keith99]

Congratulations on your "Eureka!" moment!

That "dishonest extreme" you speak of is exactly what the bible advocates: Deuteronomy 21: 18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.

Now you can see why so many atheists say what converted them was actually reading the bible. Once someone realizes the truth, how can they use a book that, according to you, advocates "extremes" to the point of "dishonesty" as a moral guide without lying to themselves?

They may take my Allied Atheist Alliance card for this but there are a few things to realize about these verses. The most obvious is that the parents cannot do this without bearing false witness unless the son is a glutton and drunkard. But more important is that this would be disgraceful for the parents. It is going to a central place and saying we failed, we could not control our child, we are royal screw-ups. This seems to be born out because it seems there are no recorded instances of this occurring.

 

[DaisyDay]

It was just an example to show the difference between the law of the country and God's law! In USA pastors were put in jail because they refused to marry gay people. I think it can happen in Europe too.

You don't know what you're talking about. This did not happen in the USA.

 

[keith99]

It was just an example to show the difference between the law of the country and God's law! In USA pastors were put in jail because they refused to marry gay people. I think it can happen in Europe too.

Source? Certain Christian groups have been claiming this will happen. You are the first person I have seen that claims it has happened.

Last I heard Scripture said not to bear false witness.

 

[vasile]

http://nbc.com.co/christian-pastor-...in-prison-after-refusing-to-marry-gay-couple/

one example, I can give you more if you like

 

[Blue Wren]

http://nbc.com.co/christian-pastor-...in-prison-after-refusing-to-marry-gay-couple/

one example, I can give you more if you like

This is a fake site. Notice how on the right sidebar there are articles about Bill Murray running for President, Obama running for a third term, Obama endorsing Trump, and Dennis Rodman leaving the U.S. to talk with ISIS?

The NBC.com.co is a tip-off, that it's fake. The real NBC is simply NBC.com

You cannot give any true example of a pastor from the United States being imprisoned for refusing to marry a gay couple, as there is not one.

 

[vasile]

Wren you are right, it's not nbc.com
there are actually clerks who got jailed because they refused to marry gay people
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/03/kentucky-clerk-contempt-of-court-marriage-licenses

 

[Armoured]

Wren you are right, it's not nbc.com
there are actually clerks who got jailed because they refused to marry gay people
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/03/kentucky-clerk-contempt-of-court-marriage-licenses

Can you say "shifting the goal posts"?

 

[vasile]

First of all Respect to this man, he has guts for telling the truth like that!

http://www.tb.no/meninger/politikere-og-media-svikter-i-barnevernssaker/o/5-76-240608

Actually the Norwegian Christian daily paper Dagen, did extensive research in this case. Dagen is well known for it's conservative Christian stance. Also, it was the first Norwegian paper to publish the cartoons of Mohammad, so you can't all them cowards. Dagen concluded after weeks of research that the parent's Christian beliefs had nothing to do with the removal of the kids. There is a summary in English here

www.dagen.no/dagensdebatt/samfunn/Editorial/Norway-is-not-the-Soviet-Union-286521

When the state funds a newspaper I doubt they will really stand against the state system
http://journalisten.no/2014/11/711-millioner-i-statsstotte

the Pentecostal movements claim otherwise

Korsets Seier, Pentecostal weekly newspaper, is among the five weeklies, which still gets support. The newspaper got last year 2 million kroner...
Again, I doubt they will really stand against the state system. They also receive money from the state for every registered member.
http://www.vl.no/2.610/norge-idag-mister-pressestøtten-1.80571

Can you say "shifting the goal posts"?

In my basic English vocabulary "clerk" sounds like "priest". My mistake!

 

[Blue Wren]

Wren you are right, it's not nbc.com
there are actually clerks who got jailed because they refused to marry gay people
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/03/kentucky-clerk-contempt-of-court-marriage-licenses

That is not correct. Kim Davis was jailed because she was in contempt of court, not because she refused to marry a gay couple. It was her job to issue marriage licenses. She refused to do so, not just to gay couples, but also to straight couples. Heterosexual couples sued also. This was a woman who was being paid her salary, with taxpayer money, and refusing to perform her job. She could have resigned from her job, if she felt she could not perform it. Very fair compromises were offered to her, such as having other employees issue the license, and she still refused.

This whole line of discussion, is a deviation from the topic. If you want to discuss it, perhaps a new thread is in order. Though there have been half a dozen threads, about that woman already, so I think it's quite tired.

 

[Blue Wren]

First of all Respect to this man, he has guts for telling the truth like that!

http://www.tb.no/meninger/politikere-og-media-svikter-i-barnevernssaker/o/5-76-240608




When the state funds a newspaper I doubt they will really stand against the state system
http://journalisten.no/2014/11/711-millioner-i-statsstotte


Korsets Seier, Pentecostal weekly newspaper, is among the five weeklies, which still gets support. The newspaper got last year 2 million kroner...
Again, I doubt they will really stand against the state system. They also receive money from the state for every registered member.
http://www.vl.no/2.610/norge-idag-mister-pressestøtten-1.80571


In my basic English vocabulary "clerk" sounds like "priest". My mistake!

Are you fluent in Norwegian? I've read the top article. It doesn't say anything about the family in the OP, and it is quite vague, with nothing to substantiate the few specific claims. What do you find so brave about it? Could you summarise the articles you've posted, as most people here are not proficient in Norwegian?