Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage

[BCP1928]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in pre-Christian Greece I don't believe people married their own sex.

There very likely would have been no reason to. One would have to learn how the government handled things like survivorship, hospital visitation rights, inheritance, joint ownership of property, and other things like that for which gays want to marry now. Were they even issues then?

 

[RileyG]

If you're familiar with greek history, that kind of activity was pretty normalized for a huge part of it, so it's surprising it's just now being legally recognized there.

It'd be sort of like if there were a hypothetical headline saying "Italy becomes first <XYZ type of> nation to legalize making your own wine at home"...such a headline would understandably lead someone to thinking "wait, with how prevalent wine is in the Italian food culture, that wasn't legal there already???"

That’s because Greece became a Christian nation 2000 years ago and considered homosexuality sinful. It’s no surprise they didn’t legalize earlier.

 

[RileyG]

Homosexuality in Ancient Greece often involved pederasty, did it not? So I wouldn't think that would be a very good argument to make if you are in favor of homosexuality in the modern day.

Yes. Men with younger boys.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in pre-Christian Greece I don't believe people married their own sex.

Married? Not sure...

I was just commenting that I found it kind of surprising that a country that had a long history of normalizing homosexual interactions (so much so, that it was often a focal point of their artwork) would've been one of the later developed countries to legalize same sex marriage.


It'd be sorta like if you heard (hypothetically) that San Francisco legalized recreational LSD after Toledo Ohio... many would think "hmmm...if Toledo already had it legalized, I would've assumed San Fran had it 10 years ago"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That’s because Greece became a Christian nation 2000 years ago and considered homosexuality sinful. It’s no surprise they didn’t legalize earlier.

There were a lot of countries that would apply to though...

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are several other European countries that have official state religions that fall under the Christianity umbrella.

For instance,
Spain (which legalized SSM 20 years ago)
Scotland (legalized in 2014)
--and about a half dozen Central/South American countries that all recognize Catholicism as their official state religion.


So, it's still surprising that Greece would be legalizing it after some of those countries, I would've expected Greece to be "early adopters" of SSM rights.

 

[RileyG]

There were a lot of countries that would apply to though...

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are several other European countries that have official state religions that fall under the Christianity umbrella.

For instance,
Spain (which legalized SSM 20 years ago)
Scotland (legalized in 2014)
--and about a half dozen Central/South American countries that all recognize Catholicism as their official state religion.


So, it's still surprising that Greece would be legalizing it after some of those countries, I would've expected Greece to be "early adopters" of SSM rights.

I think a larger number of Greek people are actually practicing orthodox Christian’s though.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think a larger number of Greek people are actually practicing orthodox Christian’s though.

I mean, maybe the Orthodox aspect is the differentiating factor?

There's only a small handful of countries that have it heavily incorporated.

Interestingly enough, the headline itself may be a tad misleading.

By saying "they were the first orthodox christian country to grant such rights"...

If the "Eastern" part was implied, then there's a reason why they're the first, it's because they're the only one lol

(countries like Georgia, Cyprus, and Bulgaria have some levels recognition for it, but don't have it as an official state religion like Greece)

If they meant that Greece was the first one that simply has any Orthodox church (including offshoots) established as the official state religious entity, then the headline would be factually inaccurate

Orthodox Church of Finland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Orthodox Church of Finland or Finnish Orthodox Church (Finnish: Suomen ortodoksinen kirkko, lit. 'Finnish Orthodox Church';[2] Swedish: Ortodoxa kyrkan i Finland, lit. 'Orthodox Church in Finland'[3]) is an autonomous Eastern Orthodox archdiocese of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. The church has a legal position as a national church in the country, along with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.[4]


(Finland legalized it in 2017) -- and technically, Finland actually has that official recognition split between Finnish Orthodox and The Finnish Lutheran Church.

 

[RileyG]

I mean, maybe the Orthodox aspect is the differentiating factor?

There's only a small handful of countries that have it heavily incorporated.

Interestingly enough, the headline itself may be a tad misleading.

By saying "they were the first orthodox christian country to grant such rights"...

If the "Eastern" part was implied, then there's a reason why they're the first, it's because they're the only one lol
View attachment 343949
(countries like Georgia, Cyprus, and Bulgaria have some levels recognition for it, but don't have it as an official state religion like Greece)

If they meant that Greece was the first one that simply has any Orthodox church (including offshoots) established as the official state religious entity, then the headline would be factually inaccurate

Orthodox Church of Finland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Orthodox Church of Finland or Finnish Orthodox Church (Finnish: Suomen ortodoksinen kirkko, lit. 'Finnish Orthodox Church';[2] Swedish: Ortodoxa kyrkan i Finland, lit. 'Orthodox Church in Finland'[3]) is an autonomous Eastern Orthodox archdiocese of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. The church has a legal position as a national church in the country, along with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.[4]


(Finland legalized it in 2017) -- and technically, Finland actually has that official recognition split between Finnish Orthodox and The Finnish Lutheran Church.

Well….Finland is not an orthodox majority country. I think Greece was the first major orthodox majority that legalized it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thomas Becket was the Archbishop of Canterbury in the late 1100s when Henry II instituted the Constitutions of Clarendon, a series of laws aimed at reducing the power of the Church in England. The main point of contention with the Church was the fact that clergy who committed a crime were subject only to the authority of the ecclesiastical courts, which generally imposed much less severe sentences for crimes (for example, they generally punished murder with defrocking - removal from the priesthood - rather than death or maiming, as the royal court did, as the spilling of blood by the ecclesiastical court was prohibited). The Constitutions decreed that, should a clergyman be defrocked, he was no longer under the protection of the Church and could thus be tried in the royal court.

We'll score that one for the state recovering power grabbed by the church. (I find it odd to support a king, but ...)

Thomas Becket opposed these laws and was exiled over his opposition. He was eventually allowed to return after Henry negotiated the removal of the contentious clauses with the pope, but was assassinated after he excommunicated three bishops for crowning the heir apparent (and thus usurping the crowning authority of Canterbury). He was the "turbulent priest" that Henry II famously wanted rid of, which was interpreted as a royal decree (though is probably not exactly the wording he used - that line was invented in the 1700s).

Thanks, I'm not english, so I don't know their history that well.