Non-Christian in Christian Community?

[Spiritual Seeker]

Hey everybody. I posted these questions in the new members forum and Gail suggested that I post them here for better responses.

I'm an spiritual agnostic who has gone to church in the past. I really enjoyed spending time with Christians and being a part of that community. But I'm no longer a Christian (or a member of any one religion) and haven't been to church in over 2 years.

Would it be acceptable to go to church and be apart of the community without believing everything that is taught? Or would I be under too much pressure to convert? Does it depend on the church? Would Christians even want to be friends with someone who has no intent to become a Christian?

-the Spiritual Seeker

 

[Sketcher]

Realistically, it depends on the church. But do go with an open mind.

Exploring Christianity though, would be a better sub-forum to ask the question in.

 

[Saucy]

Church is a great way to grow in a community. After all...a church is a very important part of a successful community. Usually I invite family and friends to church picnics and functions. I'm not sure if there would be any pressure for you to convert or not. But if you go on Sunday mornings, the whole point is to hear a sermon and reflect on God while worshipping Him through music.

My concern would be getting involved in church activities while not tithing to the church. Not everyone tithes, true, but if you're not a member of that church, you don't give to it in any way, but yet you go only to take advantage of the free services, that's kind of wrong. Though churches do have outreach programs.

The whole point of outreach is to reach non-believers in the name of Christ and try to convert them. so really if you just want to go for the free hotdogs, that's the wrong reason to attend any church function.

 

[Zebra1552]

Hey everybody. I posted these questions in the new members forum and Gail suggested that I post them here for better responses.

I'm an spiritual agnostic who has gone to church in the past. I really enjoyed spending time with Christians and being a part of that community. But I'm no longer a Christian (or a member of any one religion) and haven't been to church in over 2 years.

Would it be acceptable to go to church and be apart of the community without believing everything that is taught? Or would I be under too much pressure to convert? Does it depend on the church? Would Christians even want to be friends with someone who has no intent to become a Christian?

-the Spiritual Seeker

Don't put yourself forward as a Christian, and I doubt there'll be problems.

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

Thanks for the responses so far. To Sketcher and Jaws: I knew it would probably depend on the church. But thank you for your input.

To Saucy: I believe in all paths to God so I don't mind sermons. I listen to learn more about others and about myself. Learning what other people think about God and spirituality is something I enjoy; it helps me grow.

If I went to church, I would tithe (whether it would be exactly 10% of my income, I don't know; I donate to many different organizations). I have no desire to get free things without giving something in return. I don't want to use anyone or take unfair advantage of someone's hospitality.

If I did happen to convert for whatever reason, then that's fine. I just don't want to be pressured to make a decision about something so important.

 

[Chris_G]

Hey everybody. I posted these questions in the new members forum and Gail suggested that I post them here for better responses.

I'm an spiritual agnostic who has gone to church in the past. I really enjoyed spending time with Christians and being a part of that community. But I'm no longer a Christian (or a member of any one religion) and haven't been to church in over 2 years.

Would it be acceptable to go to church and be apart of the community without believing everything that is taught? Or would I be under too much pressure to convert? Does it depend on the church? Would Christians even want to be friends with someone who has no intent to become a Christian?

-the Spiritual Seeker

There's always the chance that you might end up converting if the Holy Spirit starts working on you by being around the Christian faith. You never know, that's very possible. But, Christianity is not a joke or something to just "hang around" with. The worse part of hell is for those who had the most knowledge of the Gospel and refused to believe in it. You will be held accountable for how much information you recieved of the Gospel, by being around Christians, going to a Christian church, hearing the Word of God, or worse yet, professing the faith, then walking away from it and calling yourself an agnostic.

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

Thank you for your honesty, Chris. I understand that you believe I will be judged and possibly go to hell for my lack of faith. I appreciate what must be your concern for others like myself.

I don't consider religion or spirituality to be a joke or something to mess around with. I want to learn as much as I can to understand others as much as possible. We are all brothers and sisters in this world whether through God or by simply being human. It is so important to me to able to see through another's eyes and walk in someone else's shoes so that I may understand my own beliefs.

 

[L2becomeCL]

Would it be acceptable to go to church and be apart of the community without believing everything that is taught? Or would I be under too much pressure to convert? Does it depend on the church? Would Christians even want to be friends with someone who has no intent to become a Christian?

-the Spiritual Seeker

Hi.

I have walked in your shoes and it totally is about the church your in. In my experience the more modern churches are alot more accepting of non christians. Alot more broken and lost people in the more modern churches. BUT, that is just my experience having been a "visitor" at both. Someone may argue Im wrong. Hence the "my experience". But as a strong minded agnostic I expected people to not want to know me at all and seriously bible bash me. But It wasnt like that at all. They were so accepting and not at all bible bashing. They were strong on "this is a postmodern world and churches should be adopting a "come as you are" culture"

I read this book once and the first sentence said "What does a buddhist, heroin addict, gay activist, 20 year old single mum, muslim and atheist all have in common? They are the future church of Jesus Christ.

Your walk is between you and God and I believe God will direct your steps to the church he wants you to be in. Gods ways are not our ways and we can only see a part of the bigger picture he is painting. The fact your on this forum says something of Gods master plan.

When I went along to a church God had directed me to all of 6 years ago now. I loved the worship, community and the sermons (which I felt were all tailor made for me) But was totally adamant I was not going to become a Christian. I held strong to that. It didnt take long for Jesus to change my heart though.

I will leave you with this. Simply because I just opened this Christian book I havent read in a few years and on the front cover it had this:
"Our outlook determines our outcome".

God Bless

 

[bsd31]

I don't see how there would be an issue. But I'm not sure what you mean by "pressure to convert". In other words I don't have any idea what you would call pressure.

Would having people always asking to pray for you be pressure?

Would having them laying their hands on your and invoking the name of Jesus Christ in all of their prayers be pressure?

Would it be pressure if they were constantly asking you to go out for brunch after a service and then doing nothing except talking about Jesus?

Would you feel pressure if a few times a week different people from the church were asking if you were ready to give you heart to the Lord?

I could probably think up about 100 more examples of things you might consider pressure.

There's not a believer out there who doesn't have an intention to convert you. We're not all "in your face" but it's always on our mind and is our motivation in everything we do.

And I'll leave you with this to consider. Your intent is absolutely meaningless. None of us intended to become Christians (or to return to the faith). We were all content wallowing in our sins, and our filth. If God intends you to become a Christian. You will. Doesn't matter if you're in a church or not.

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

Thanks for the responses, L2becomeCL and bsd31. I enjoy hearing all the different sides and opinions on this matter.

I think a "modern" church would be somewhere I'd feel comfortable. Unfortunately, I live in an extremely conservative area and I'm not sure I could find something like that here.

I love that quote about our outlook/outcome. I can be a very "half-empty" type of person sometimes. All that does is add stress. Being positive does wonders.

bsd31, thank you for being frank with me. For me, pressure would be your fourth question. I don't mind their asking; I know that those asking are only asking because they care about me. But if I ever feel the need to commit my life to Jesus, I will approach someone. I think that our individual choices should be respected.

Praying for me and talking about Jesus doesn't bother me. I wouldn't go to a church and not expect those things to happen. Why would I go to learn at a Christian church if I didn't want to hear about Jesus?

Wallowing in sin and filth, that doesn't sound very content to me. I realize that you think I'm wallowing and I respect your right to believe that. But I believe intent is very meaningful. Unless you are a traditional Calvinist (and if you are, please forgive me), those who make the choice of believing in Jesus Christ do so with intent, or purpose.

 

[Coralie]

Hey Seeker. Just popping in to invite you to any Orthodox church in your area. You are never under pressure to convert in Orthodoxy -- indeed, you would not be permitted to until you've spent a lot of time with a priest with the express purpose of asking questions. You are absolutely free to attend services and enjoy fellowship afterwards (or whenever!). We don't pay tithes, people just give whenever and however they want to. We also don't have 'altar calls' and we don't have an in-your-face style of witnessing. Our style is, build a church, hold services, be available for people and have a loving presence in the community, and let God do the rest.

Also, always feel free to call an Orthodox priest with questions or concerns about how you can expect to be received in the church. My priest would be delighted to have you, I'm sure.

I am sure there are many other churches that would welcome you too! There will always be one or two that will have a bad attitude, but don't let that put you off, just persevere. The only thing you would never be permitted to participate in is the receiving of Holy Communion, which I'm sure you weren't particularly planning on.

 

[Peripatetic]

I think it's a great idea. As long as you don't make waves and try to stir up debate, you should be welcomed into most churches. If anyone pressures you, just politely say that you are keeping an open mind, but you don't want to make any commitments unless or until you are ready. I have an agnostic friend who really enjoys talking about Christianity with me and some of his other friends, and keeps an open mind. Mutual respect is the key, and I hope you find it in your congregation.

 

[Jonnley]

...those who make the choice of believing in Jesus Christ do so with intent, or purpose.

As you already know Christianity starts with faith in Jesus Christ - Willfully believing that Jesus is the Son of God, the sacrifice - payment to redeem people from the punishment of sin (hell), and therefore receiving Jesus as personal saviour, because from God's viewpoint (according to the teaching of the Bible which we believe as inspired by the holy spirit and we equate as God's words), no one can pay himself a ticket to heaven by doing good works, nor can be justified or considered for heaven in eternity by doing good.

The purpose or rather the benefit that I see that Christians have according to faith are: They do good works for a true existing God that credits their good works in earth. (Note that this crediting only applies to Christians who have believed and received Jesus Christ). Crediting means that there is a reward in heaven in eternity after life here on earth. Every good thing that Christians do have an ETERNAL purpose, as opposed to a moral non christians that live for merely personal principle, legacy (etc.) (which are good and definitely encouraged but which will only last for as long as the earth lasts. Only those done 'in Christ' (those who believe and receive Jesus Christ are considered by God to be in 'Gods body' or 'in christ') will have eternal dividends.

So it all starts with faith. And (according to the teaching based on the Bible) without the right kind of faith it is impossible to please the one true God.

I sincerely hope you will find greater significance in eternal purposes (available only in Christ).

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

Coralie: I searched last night for an Orthodox church in my area and I found one that's about 15 miles away. Next weekend, I think I'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

And no, taking communion isn't part of the plan. I feel that would be disrespectful.

VertigoAge: Thanks for the advice. Like I've said, I just want to learn. I respect Christians (and people of all religions), so I completely agree about the necessisity of mutual respect.

Jonnley: You've given me a lot to think about. Right now, I do good for the "legacy" of this earth and for its people. Also, it feels really good to know you've helped someone. I now see the difference between earthly good and eternal good, as you have explained it. I would like to believe in an afterlife, but I also believe I will never know, if it can ever be known at all, until I die.

I have a question though. You say that God rewards those who do good for eternal purpose. In what way does God reward? Is it the giving of eternal life or something else? If one Christian performs many good works, does that mean they receive a higher reward than the Christian that does few?

 

[E.C.]

Would it be acceptable to go to church and be apart of the community without believing everything that is taught? Or would I be under too much pressure to convert? Does it depend on the church? Would Christians even want to be friends with someone who has no intent to become a Christian?

-the Spiritual Seeker

Certainly, so long as you are honest and polite.

There's a couple at my Orthodox church; the wife has been Orthodox her whole life and her husband used to be Roman Catholic for a long time. They've been married for about twenty years and he was never pressured into becoming Orthodox (maybe teased from time to time, but nothing malicious), but then one day he woke up and decided that he would become Orthodox.

I have a question though. You say that God rewards those who do good for eternal purpose. In what way does God reward? Is it the giving of eternal life or something else? If one Christian performs many good works, does that mean they receive a higher reward than the Christian that does few?

Eternal life sort of thing.

The last question is a bit outside of the realm of human understanding, but from what we know of God it may be fair to say that it is not how many good things one does, but the intent and spirit behind them. After all, Christ Himself praised a woman who gave two cents to the Temple because it was all she had, whereas He did not praise those who gave bags upon bags of gold coins because they gave only a fraction of what they had.

 

[Jonnley]

I have a question though. You say that God rewards those who do good for eternal purpose. In what way does God reward? Is it the giving of eternal life or something else? If one Christian performs many good works, does that mean they receive a higher reward than the Christian that does few?

God's rewards are in eternity. Enjoyed in eternal life. But eternal life is gained not by doing good works. It is what is assured for those who believe and receive Jesus as God's Son the savior who died to redeem people from the punishment of sin (hell).

Salvation (redemption from the punishment of sin) is only through believing and receiving Jesus Christ. Because no one is righteous enough to redeem himself, God made the way through sending His Son to suffer and pay the penalty of sin for us, and all who believe that truth and receive Jesus as Savior will be saved.

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

...

The purpose or rather the benefit that I see that Christians have according to faith are: They do good works for a true existing God that credits their good works in earth. (Note that this crediting only applies to Christians who have believed and received Jesus Christ). Crediting means that there is a reward in heaven in eternity after life here on earth. Every good thing that Christians do have an ETERNAL purpose, as opposed to a moral non christians that live for merely personal principle, legacy (etc.) (which are good and definitely encouraged but which will only last for as long as the earth lasts. Only those done 'in Christ' (those who believe and receive Jesus Christ are considered by God to be in 'Gods body' or 'in christ') will have eternal dividends.

...

(Emphasis is my own).

Jonnley, I definitely understand the Christian belief that it is only through belief in Jesus Christ that one is saved and given eternal life.

But my question was about this "crediting" and "reward" and "dividends" you mentioned. You'll notice you said that these payments are in eternal life, not that they are eternal life itself.

So if the paying ("credit"/"dividends") is in eternal life, meaning the the reward is not eternal life itself, what is it then? And my previous question, is this reward greater for the Christian (who believes in Jesus Christ) who does many good works for eternal purpose versus the Christian (who also believes in Jesus Christ) who does few good works for eternal purpose?

 

[E.C.]

If the intent behind doing something good is "this is my get out of hell free card" than that is a lot different than "this is what Christ would want me to do".

Its like the difference between a corporation donating $20K to a park and taking all the credit versus an anonymous donor who gave $200K. The matter isn't how much, but what was the intent behind it and what inspired that intent.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

If non-Christians stopped going to church, the church wouldn't really grow. And everyone who is now a Christian, at one time was not one. So there's nothing wrong with going to church if you're not a Christian.

It's a place to learn about who God truly is. If that's what you're going for, then keep going

If you're not interested in learning more about God, then it'd be odd to keep going - like a vegetarian going to an all you can eat steak buffett.

Or if you think that going to church will earn you some brownie points if "it turns out that God really does exist" - then you've got the wrong idea.



If you weren't pressured to convert, I'd think it was a very odd church to go to. "We believe Jesus came to save all people, but we don't want to pressure you into being forgiven and in right standing before God Almighty." I would really question whether a church like that believes at all!

At its core, Christianity is more about finding the forgiveness, mercy and love of God, and less about doing "the right things." Any church worth its salt would want to help you find forgiveness, mercy and love.

 

[Spiritual Seeker]

Thanks, E.C. and sbbqb7n16.

I agree wholeheartedly that intent is very important. I don't like to make a big show of my helping others or donating time/money. I do what I can, and I feel good because I know I made someone else feel good.

I don't want to go to church for a "brownie points" or for a "get out of hell free card." I want to learn more about Christianity and find some new, interesting people. I live in a very homogeneous area where nearly everyone has the same views, values, and beliefs. I want explore how others live their lives, what they believe.

As far as "the right things," that was not my statement for why I want to go to church. I was commenting on something Jonnley said.

Forgive if I'm wrong, but do you (Christians in general) find that many, both Christians and non-Christians alike, go to church, pray, go on missions, etc., simply to receive some perceived benefit? It seems to me that it is a reflex to suggest someone outside of Christianity has ulterior motives for going to church. Is this encountered often, and that's why people bring up such things as "brownie points"?

I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer that this is to be a learning experience for me. I'm seeking to better understand Christians and their belief system. I mean no disrespect. That's not my purpose here.