No more feelings

[JustHisKid]

I do, but I choose not to share it with you.

Nor am I in the least bit interested.

 

[HannahT]

Marriages fail because of both parties, not just one. I'm not sure your comment to me was necessary as you misread it. I was not telling her that he heart was hard if she didn't submit more, but that it is already hard, clearly, and has been for some time.

I read what you said, and I stand by what I said. It's spiritual pixie dust.

People are always looking for the two parties at fault deal to make it look better, but I don't buy that. No one is perfect of course, and enabling his bad behavior maybe in some people's eyes as 'fault'...I tend to see that a certain culture's wanting to stick to their theory of both parties at fault deal. It's unhealthy dynamic - not fault to me. Incompatibility on a healthy level is another term.

Marriages fail because one or both parties fail to step up, and do what is needed. Sometimes people are capable of working on it, and other times they aren't. I don't look at being capable or incapable as fault. It just is. If people want to believe that when you have one party trying...and that is all it takes to make a marriage? They are welcome to that opinion. I think its nonsense. It must be the cooperation of both, because one party isn't capable - nor should they be - handling both loads at once.

Frankly, it sounds like people need to look at her mental health state which seems to be suffering under the pressure. Sadly, it doesn't sound like he is capable of that. That could crush her, and should be top priority over looking for fault in both parties. The pressure of the unhealthy dynamic shouldn't be called a hard heart either, especially with the known cogitations that tend to go with it.

 

[Catherineanne]

Nor am I in the least bit interested.

How kind. Thank you.

 

[JustHisKid]

I read what you said, and I stand by what I said. It's spiritual pixie dust.

Actually, my advice comes straight from Scripture. Call it spiritual pixie dust if you wish.

People are always looking for the two parties at fault deal to make it look better, but I don't buy that.

They are? More like in a marriage, both people contribute to its success or failure.

 

[JustHisKid]

How kind. Thank you.

You reap what you sow.

 

[HannahT]

Actually, my advice comes straight from Scripture. Call it spiritual pixie dust if you wish..

Thank you...I will. Scripture says more on the subject than those aspects, and they are to be taken as a whole. It also speaks about entitled individuals, and how to deal with them. Do we ignore that advice coming straight from scripture? No, and I think you know that too. We must use discernment.

They are? More like in a marriage, both people contribute to its success or failure.

You comment doesn't make any sense when you take what was said out of context.

 

[Catherineanne]

You reap what you sow.

I am sorry that you were abused. I am even more sorry you believe that you were even partly responsible for that abuse.

In case nobody ever said it before, you were not responsible. Those who are abused are never to blame; the person who is to blame is the person who cannot control their anger or their violence. Healthy adults do not resort to abuse when times are difficult; they sit down and talk problems through, and they support one another. Abuse victims do not reap what they sow; they do not deserve everything they get, and they are not abused because they have not submitted enough to their spouse. All of these are lies told by abusers to stop the victim from packing their bags and leaving.

In a marriage both parties share responsibility. When abuse occurs it is no longer a marriage in any meaningful sense of the term; it is something else entirely, and unless both parties are abusing one another the responsibilty for the abuse is NOT shared.

You are clearly still suffering from the effects of what happened to you, which is why I am giving you space and trying to understand. I don't expect you to appreciate this, but perhaps in time you will.

You were not to blame. The OP is not to blame. I was not to blame.

The abusers must take responsibility for their own actions. It is not ours.

 

[JustHisKid]

Thank you...I will. Scripture says more on the subject than those aspects, and they are to be taken as a whole.

What else does Scripture say about wives and husbands?

It also speaks about entitled individuals, and how to deal with them.

Can you post that passage?

 

[Catherineanne]

Abusers do not always escalate. Sometimes they repent and are saved.

And then they all live happily ever after?

Unlikely.

Unless they are stopped, abusers will escalate.

 

[JustHisKid]

I am sorry that you were abused. I am even more sorry you believe that you were even partly responsible for that abuse.

In case nobody ever said it before, you were not responsible. Those who are abused are never to blame; the person who is to blame is the person who cannot control their anger or their violence. Healthy adults do not resort to abuse when times are difficult; they sit down and talk problems through, and they support one another. Abuse victims do not reap what they sow; they do not deserve everything they get, and they are not abused because they have not submitted enough to their spouse. All of these are lies told by abusers to stop the victim from packing their bags and leaving.

In a marriage both parties share responsibility. When abuse occurs it is no longer a marriage in any meaningful sense of the term; it is something else entirely, and unless both parties are abusing one another the responsibilty for the abuse is NOT shared.

You are clearly still suffering from the effects of what happened to you, which is why I am giving you space and trying to understand. I don't expect you to appreciate this, but perhaps in time you will.

You were not to blame. The OP is not to blame. I was not to blame.

The abusers must take responsibility for their own actions. It is not ours.

Wow, that hit me right between the eyes. Nobody ever told me that and it's been twelve years since the divorce and I think you are right, I am still suffering. How do you let go of it? It cut me so deep I don't think I will recover.

 

[HannahT]

What else does Scripture say about wives and husbands?

The bible is full of passages that address human behavior that goes way beyond just wives and husbands. You know that as well as I do. Your response is rather confusing personally. Are we only to look to HOW we are to behave within a marriage ONLY by using scripture addressing husbands and wives that only? You know we can't do that!

Can you post that passage?

Have you read Proverbs at all? The bible may not use the word 'entitled', but it sure does describe the behavior that fulfills the definition of the word. You have passages in James about the power of the tongue, and the damage that is causes. It addresses selfish behavior, selfish ambition, etc. You don't need for me to post all of them, because you know them as well as I do.

I'm not Catholic, but I did appreciate what the Pope said recently about separation. At times its morally necessary, but sadly to many today are SO freaked out by the action because it may not 'end' the way they want it too they are leery to even suggest it. Their fears over a possible 'divorce' override all discernment and common sense.

"It is true, on the other hand, that there are cases in which separation is inevitable. Sometimes it can become even morally necessary, precisely when it means saving the weaker spouse, or children, from more serious injuries caused by the arrogance and violence, and exploitation, from bitterness, alienation and indifference.

If she decides to stay, and they can't fix the present issues? We can't suggest that her circumstance will magically change over respecting and submitting to him. It won't. Be up front and honest - you must learn to live with it. You must learn not to depend on him, or expect anything from him. You must rely solely on yourself, and your faith in God. Find ways with a help of a counselor that will NOT impact your mental health, and have them teach you how to detach enough to stay sane. She is already struggling in that area, and my heart goes out to her. She is scared if I were guessing, and I can't blame her there.

 

[JustHisKid]

The bible is full of passages that address human behavior that goes way beyond just wives and husbands. You know that as well as I do. Your response is rather confusing personally. Are we only to look to HOW we are to behave within a marriage ONLY by using scripture addressing husbands and wives that only? You know we can't do that!

We're discussing wives and husbands specifically.

Have you read Proverbs at all? The bible may not use the word 'entitled', but it sure does describe the behavior that fulfills the definition of the word. You have passages in James about the power of the tongue, and the damage that is causes. It addresses selfish behavior, selfish ambition, etc. You don't need for me to post all of them, because you know them as well as I do.

And how does this relate to the biblical instruction for a wife?

I'm not Catholic, but I did appreciate what the Pope said recently about separation. At times its morally necessary, but sadly to many today are SO freaked out by the action because it may not 'end' the way they want it too they are leery to even suggest it. Their fears over a possible 'divorce' override all discernment and common sense.

I'm not Catholic either and nothing the pope says impressed me.

If she decides to stay, and they can't fix the present issues? We can't suggest that her circumstance will magically change over respecting and submitting to him. It won't. Be up front and honest - you must learn to live with it. You must learn not to depend on him, or expect anything from him. You must rely solely on yourself, and your faith in God. Find ways with a help of a counselor that will NOT impact your mental health, and have them teach you how to detach enough to stay sane. She is already struggling in that area, and my heart goes out to her. She is scared if I were guessing, and I can't blame her there.

I don't blame her for being scared and confused or anything else for that matter. I was suggesting to her, as I've already repeated, if she wanted to save her marriage, to take biblical advice on how to treat her husband.

 

[HannahT]

We're discussing wives and husbands specifically. And how does this relate to the biblical instruction for a wife?

Wives and Husbands are to take the whole of scripture, and not just parts that describe the spouse attitude towards the other. If you can't understand that - I don't know what to tell you. There are many lessons within the bible on how to deal with people - and that includes your spouse. How we are to deal with ugly behavior, and when its wise to avoid someone until something changes. You even have scripture on how to approach a fellow believer, and what to do when they reject Christian counsel with their sin.

The bible does not say - these scriptures are NOT for the martial relationship...and don't apply. There is no such footnote, and so it all relates to instructions to us as Christians.

You are to narrow in your prospective towards marriage if you only look to a handful of scripture, and pretend the rest don't count. All of the bible can relate in one way or another to wifes, husbands, single, widowed, etc.

I'm not Catholic either and nothing the pope says impressed me.

I don't blame her for being scared and confused or anything else for that matter. I was suggesting to her, as I've already repeated, if she wanted to save her marriage, to take biblical advice on how to treat her husband.

That's to bad about the Pope. I find he is very a tenderhearted man, and don't have to agree with everything he says. He does make himself very approachable, and he will be very Christ like to you even when you do disagree. I find his humility very refreshing.

It's sad to me when people feel that the marriage is 'saved' when you truly have no relationship at all. The children tend to be harmed in the process, and its due to no fault of their own. Sadly, to many people don't stop and think about the damage done to them. Pretending the marriage is saved is always best. I'll never be able to wrap my head and heart about that prospective. Jesus had some pretty stern words about the treatment of children.

It doesn't sound like this man is capable of appreciating the contribution you are asking her to make, and I hope her mental health and her depression doesn't suffer due to it.

 

[JustHisKid]

That's to bad about the Pope. I find he is very a tenderhearted man, and don't have to agree with everything he says. He does make himself very approachable, and he will be very Christ like to you even when you do disagree. I find his humility very refreshing.

I find him to lead a religion that glorifies paganism. I don't care if he's a nice guy.

It's sad to me when people feel that the marriage is 'saved' when you truly have no relationship at all. The children tend to be harmed in the process, and its due to no fault of their own. Sadly, to many people don't stop and think about the damage done to them. Pretending the marriage is saved is always best. I'll never be able to wrap my head and heart about that prospective. Jesus had some pretty stern words about the treatment of children.

It doesn't sound like this man is capable of appreciating the contribution you are asking her to make, and I hope her mental health and her depression doesn't suffer due to it.

Are you seriously suggesting that telling her, if she wants to stay, to submit to her husband as the head and respect him would cause her depression and I would be responsible? I certainly hope that is not what you are implying.

 

[visionary]

Step back. Maybe you need to approach this from another angle. God needs you there to pray for his salvation, to be his helpmate, to love him, care for him. Do this and let God take care of you. Strange as this advice sounds. It works.

While you are having all these conversations with the Lord to be all that He wants you to be, He will be working behind the scenes to bless you and your marriage, take the hardness and unforgiveness out of your heart. The first transformation will be in you and the result will be in those around you.

Pray for the Lord to step into your life and transform you. Transforming your life where you see as He sees things, hears things, and how He wants things to be dealt with. You are the Lord's child, His witness, His disciple, and His example to those around you.

You know what they say..... The only one you can change is you.

In all this, I am not saying that he is innocent. All I am saying is that he is living a life without God, and until that changes nothing will change in him. So start there. Pray for his salvation, by living yours.

 

[HannahT]

Are you seriously suggesting that telling her, if she wants to stay, to submit to her husband as the head and respect him would cause her depression and I would be responsible? I certainly hope that is not what you are implying.

No that wasn't what I saying.

I read what she mentioned about depression, etc. It could continue or worsen if she is not properly prepared mentally to take on her husband that doesn't seem capable of healthy interactions when clearly needed. She has to own she will be on her own, and will have to only depend on herself and God.

If she can not prepare herself for that reality her mental health could very well suffer. I would have her seriously consider a counselor to help her prepare herself for that reality. Depression can be very powerful, and you need help in that area when it gets severe. It's a heartbreaking condition, and in the worse case scenario (may not be in her case, but other's) people have harmed themselves to rid themselves of the pain.

If depression is involved she may need more than just advice on what you are suggesting, because depression does get that bad.

 

[JustHisKid]

I read what she mentioned about depression, etc.

Depression is often caused by dwelling on yourself which is why I told her to focus on him instead of herself, to relieve her depression.

 

[HannahT]

Depression is often caused by dwelling on yourself which is why I told her to focus on him instead of herself, to relieve her depression.

There are different kinds of depression, and she mentioned she landed in a mental health hospital already once. Depression is caused by many factors as you know, and focusing on herself at times may help to a point...but if it is more serious like she described? It may not. She may need more than that.

 

[Catherineanne]

Wow, that hit me right between the eyes. Nobody ever told me that and it's been twelve years since the divorce and I think you are right, I am still suffering. How do you let go of it? It cut me so deep I don't think I will recover.

No, we will not recover. Think of the Lord in eternity; he rose again and ascended into heaven, but the marks of the nails are still in his hands. Similarly, we will bear the marks in this life, and perhaps even the next.

As for recovering, the first step is to accept that you were not to blame. There is nothing you could have said to prevent what happened; you were not too sharp, or too demanding, or too emotional, or too weak, or whatever other lies he told you. You trusted your husband to look after you, and you tried to look after him. But somehow it was never quite enough.

You can move on from it, but you can never be the person you were before. Neither can I.

There are a lot of resources online for abused women, and there are support groups if you can cope with them (I don't think I could).

Meanwhile, find some Post Its, and write on ten of them; 'It was not my fault' and then stick them on every mirror in your home. Every time you look in the mirror, read what it says. After a few years you may start to believe it. But it absolutely certainly 100% was not your fault. You trusted; he betrayed that trust.

 

[Catherineanne]

Depression is often caused by dwelling on yourself which is why I told her to focus on him instead of herself, to relieve her depression.

No, depression is not caused by dwelling on oneself; it is the other way round. Depression forces us to focus on ourselves because we have no energy left for anyone else; it forces us into survival mode.

Depression is a sign from the body to tell us that something has to change. We have to work out what that something is, and then we can try to find a way to achieve it.

If a woman is being abused and decides to stop focussing on that abuse and focus instead on her abuser it gives him permission to carry on doing whatever he likes, and it prevents her from realising quite how bad it is. This is not the best advice in the world, therefore.