Neutering God for Women's Rights

[Strong in Him]

I know what's its like to be proud to impart the word of God and see people have a 100% u-turn from their old ways.

I'm not proud; I'm honoured.
This is all from him, and if anyone listening to a sermon grows in faith or changes their ideas/behaviour as a result, it is because GOD has spoken to them. He can, of course, accomplish all this, and far more, without me. I feel privileged that he wants to use me and would consider using me to fulfil his purposes.
I know many other women who would say the same. That is why it is insulting to read these threads and see people shouting about feminine ego, and wanting our own rights and our own way.

That doesn't refer to you; just reflecting on some of the things I have read in the past.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

I won't lie that God never said, "Do not teach?" but I won't be here to condemn perhaps, trying to save you too. I know how God has dealt with us before and He's not the type to say one thing then decide "Nope that isn't the way to Go." He's a little bit stringent than people make him to look like, he's a little bit hard than we would love to think him not to be and he has no other standards other than the ones he's passed from one century to the next. I would rather condemn myself and escape his wrath, that's all

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Don't worry we have a church that is more than 1000 years old and has no idea what's leading it but believe me when I say, "They KNow GOD is ahead of them."

 

[Linet Kihonge]

I should stop sharing my Bible because everyone seems to have more than 10 versions of it

 

[Strong in Him]

That is 'not' how God 'works'.

If these words are referring to my testimony that he has called me to preach the Gospel, then yes it is.
If I was the only person in the whole world who was saying that you've misunderstood 1 Timothy 2:12, if all the male clergy and theologians agreed with you and gave me Scriptural evidence that women can't preach, if I ignored all that and said that I am allowed to be a preacher, if I went off and trained by myself, appointed myself to preach, despite male opposition - then you might have a point.

Look around you; there are thousands of female evangelists, missionaries, Ministers and lay preachers. These are Christian women, not egotistical feminists. They are doing what they do , not only because God has called, blessed and anointed them, but because men have agreed that they are called, train them and recognise their ministries.

What you have proposed is 'contrary' to scripture. God doesn't 'stop' people from 'doing' what is contrary to His will.

"People", maybe.
But I believe that if a Christian, one of his children; someone who has been born again by his Spirit, who loves him and wants to serve him, asks for guidance from their heavenly Father, believing that he will "lead them in paths of righteousness for his name's sake", Psalm 23:4 - then God WILL lead them and is quite capable of showing them the right path; blocking the way if they seek to do anything which will bring dishonour to his name. The Lord has honoured his name above all things, Psalm 138:2; he would not allow his children, those who bear that name, to do something which he was against and whch he knew brought shame to that name. I also believe that Christians who love God and want to serve him, would not want this either.

All you have offered is that you place 'your faith' in yourself.

No.
Without God I would not be doing this, nor would I have had the strength to even start. I was ill with M.E when I began preaching. It was only because he gave me the strength to physically stand in church, not to mention the inspiration when I wrote my assignments and sermons, that I was able to do this.

TAsking God to 'stop' you or make you 'fail' if what you choose is against His will is like playing the lottery.

No it wasn't; it was asking for guidance.
It was a man who suggested that God might be calling me to preach the Gospel. I had a male Superintendent, who interviewed me and agreed, and people who assessed my sermons also agreed. I was, and am, in a church which allows women to preach. if, despite all of this and much prayer, it had been God's will for me NOT to preach his word, then I wanted him to give me a clear sign - something that I could not ignore. Failing an assignment, or having congregations reject me, or the preacher's meeting refusing to let me carry on, would have been such a sign.
And asking for a sign is not wrong - Gideon asked for several. Peter saw Jesus walking on the water and said "if that is you, tell me to come to you", Thomas wouldn't believe in the risen lord until he had seen for himself. In each case, the Lord did as they asked, gave a sign and reassured them.

You buy a set of numbers and HOPE that it comes in. This is mere 'chance' and has nothing to do with God.

?? I wasn't trusting in fate or HOPING that I would either fail or scrape through. I prayed and asked for guidance and was trusting HIM. Some people, in the Bible, did the same thing (see above). And actually, the standard method of guidance in Scripture WAS to draw lots and trust that God guided the result. Don't you believe that he can do the same today?

I suppose you believe that Benny Hindi is a faithful followers of God? Yet he is still out there 'playing his game'. Why hasn't God 'stopped him' from pretending to be an Evangelist?

No idea who Benny Hindi is.
If you mean Benny Hinn; he IS an evangelist and has no doubt helped many find the Lord and grow in their faith. Some of the things he says may not be correct - if he teaches the prosperity Gospel, and he will have to answer for those things before God. But that doesn't mean that what he is doing - preaching - is wrong, and that no word of his is, or has ever been, correct.

Not a single example that you have offered alters the words of Paul concerning the 'place' of women in the 'church'.

If you believe that the Bible should be taken literally; Paul told women to be silent. Yet he allowed them to be deacons, prophets, teachers and prayer leaders and instructed them HOW to prophesy and pray. You tell me how a woman can be silent in church and yet prophesy. So if you take those words of his literally, then he contradicted himself. He also contradicted Jesus' example, because Christ allowed women to speak for him and spread his word.

Everything you have offered is contrary to the words of Paul. And what is even worse than being contrary is your continued insistence that Paul's words don't mean what he said. That we 'must' pretend that they were influenced by the 'culture' more than being 'inspired by God'.

No.
What I have said, if you have read my posts, is that Paul's words WERE inspired by God - the right words, and right solution for the problems that were in that church at that time. That does not mean that they apply to us today, in different churches and a different culture.
There are many things like this in Scripture. Do you obey ALL of the Jewish law? If not, why not? The law is still in the Bible; Christians did not say "The law is not for us because Jesus fulfilled it and set us free, so let's not include the books of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy". If you don't obey all of the law, then that means that there are some things in Scripture which you do not obey or believe are for you or apply to you. Which also means that you cannot condemn me for having a similar opinion.

Paul's words weren't cryptic or mysterious or vague. They were offered perfectly clearly.

If they are "perfectly clear", why are we - and theologians - spending so much time discussing them?
They may be "perfectly clear" to you; they are not to me - hence all my questions. What IS perfectly clear to me is that I am called to preach the Gospel.

As is the case when 'anyone' doesn't 'like' what the scriptures offer, they will lean towards any 'tactic' to try and 'alter or change them'.

Which is a judgement.
Either you cannot understand the fact that you may be wrong in your literal interpretation of Scripture, or you flatly refuse to believe it. So therefore everyone who does not accept Scripture exactly as you do is trying to change it.

As I said before, if you believe that exegesis is a dirty word, and that we shouldn't read things in context, find out what the language means, who Paul was writing to, or whatever; if you believe that we have to read the Bible literally and that every single word applies to us today as well - then that's what you believe. You may find that difficult, in practice and you will find many people who will tell you that you are wrong; but you have every right to that belief.
What you have no right to do is to imply that this is the only valid belief/point of view and that anyone who doesn't hold it is trying to change the word of God to make it more attractive or make it fit with what they believe.

The fact that you hold a belief which is NOT Scriptural and when challenged about it say that it was "revealed to you by the Holy Spirit", means that you don't even practice what you criticise in others.

To deliver a message of God does not make someone a 'leader'. Just a messenger. For a prostitute to deceive her own people in hiding spies does not make her a LEADER. Nor is a prophetess a "LEADER" regardless of your misaligned interpretations.

I'm well aware of that.
But Paul's words, which you seem to want to apply literally, state that a woman should be silent. Prophesying is not being silent. And taking God's word to other people is basically what a sermon is all about.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

 

[Strong in Him]

No, what you have perceived as a 'calling of God' may well be nothing other than your 'own lusts'.

Nope.
I never wanted to preach. I firmly believed I was being called to a pastoral ministry in the Church of England - visiting people, hospital visiting and so on - and reminded the Lord about this more than once.
He gave me, but to my surprise, a preaching ministry in the Methodist Church.

God isn't going to 'call someone' to oppose His instructions.

And as he is clearly calling women to be preachers, this tells me that he obviously has no problem with it; such a call is not contrary to his word.
But some people are convinced that their interpretation of Scripture is the only valid one, so it is easier to blame and condemn all women preachers than admit that they could be mistaken.

And our 'minds' are capable of fabricating pretty much anything we 'lust after'.

I don't "lust after" it; never have done.
If God told me tomorrow, "I don't want you to preach ever again" - fine; no problem. No more sermon writing. No more opening these forums to read posts which say "you are following your own desires", "you are being disobedient", "you are a feminist and in sin, and God only allows you to continue in sin because we are in end times." How would I ever survive without my regular doses of abuse?

Some people insist that they've been abducted by aliens and can pass 'lie detector tests'. Others insist that they have 'seen' Bigfoot. Some of them have passed 'lie detector tests' too. That means that their 'mental fabrication' is such that they have convinced themselves that their 'fantasy' is 'reality'. Not 'uncommon'.

You are comparing serving God to fantasy?? Seriously?

The 'great commission' as you offer, was not offered to women.

The Great Commission is words that Jesus spoke to his disciples. At the time, of course that was only the 11. But we are all his disciples.
I thought you believed that the words in Scripture apply to all of us at all times? That is one of the things you keep insisting about 1 Timothy 2:12 - that because that's how it was then, that is how it has to be now. Yet now you are saying that the words that Jesus spoke in Matthew 28:20 were only for the 11 disciples that were with him. If that was the case, how come we're here? The 11 disciples/apostles died centuries ago. How has the church been able to even continue, nevr mind to grow, without people obeying these words of Jesus and witnessing for him?

When Paul was speaking to the apostles, none were women. You certainly have taken much liberty in what you 'read'.

The word "apostle" means "sent", or "one who is sent".
This is the word that is used when God sent Jesus into the world, and on other occasions when people were sent out to proclaim the Good News. If women are sent by the church or by God, they are also apostles.
Yes, it is used mainly of the 12 disciples whom Jesus chose, but that is not only what it refers to. On one occasion the word is used of all believers.

It's almost as if you basically ignore what is offered and replace it with your own words without any basis other than your own desires.

Considering you state that "Eve resented being made for Adam, wanted to BE him and Satan knew and used this"; an idea which is NOT Scriptural, therefore has to be your own - this is a bit of a cheek. A double standard, in fact.

The Bible was not written 'by women/to women'. It was written by men TO men.

I was all set to get outraged and offended by this. But it's so ludicrous, it's not worth it.
Where did you get this idea? What Scripture do you have for it? If you can't produce one, then it's obviously one of your own ideas, with no basis other than your own desires.

What little was directed at women makes it clear that those 'tiny parts' were directed 'at women'. The rest was written 'to men'. You have fabricated the 'idea' that it was directed 'to women' in complete disregard for the very 'manner' in which it is written.

The Bible is for everyone. God so loved the world that he wanted all people - men and women because we are all sinners - to be saved and come to know him. God made women in his image, women have sinned, women need a Saviour and can be saved.
The Bible, and the Gospel, are for, and addressed to, women. There is nothing anywhere in Scripture which says that the words, laws, commands, promises and Gospel of God are ONLY for those of the male gender. Yes, I know that men were circumcised as a sign of the covenant that God made with Abraham; that doesn't mean, or prove, that women were excluded. Like I said, look at how many women were allowed, and called, to proclaim God's words to others.

Jesus obviously believed this - he healed and forgave women and allowed them to hear and proclaim his word. The early church believed this also; Paul had many female co workers whom he praised because of their hard work for the Gospel. He wrote letters to the church, which clearly included women.


To be continued.

 

[Strong in Him]

Continued.

No, what you are 'suppose' to DO is follow as instructed.

I am.

In other words, I am in complete agreement with you here: God is 'not' going to 'call you' to disobey His commands.

But what you either don't understand, or are absolutely refusing to consider, is that because God IS and DOES call women to preach, clearly he cannot have commanded that we do not do so.
Like I said - easier to dismiss the testimonies of thousands of Christian women that admit that you might be wrong.

So what you may 'perceive' as God's call may well be 'something else'. Especially if 'your calling' is contrary to His will.

It isn't.

See, 'you' keep 'saying' that you've been 'called by God'. But to me, those words mean 'nothing' if they do not conform to the instructions we have been offered in scripture. No reason to place my trust in 'you' compared to scripture.

Well that's ok because it doesn't matter to me whether you believe and accept what I say. God does and the church does.

So perhaps you should 're examine' what you keep referring to as 'your calling'.

Really? You think that in the 3 years before I began training and the 3 years it took me to train, that I never did this? That I never said to God, "am I on the right path; is this truly from you?" I've already told you that I asked God to give me a clear sign by deliberately letting me fail at something - yet you dismissed that as like playing the lottery and was nothing to do with him.

I've said this before, but will do so again. Supposing I did change my views; supposing I went to my (male) Minister and (male) Superintendent and said "I can no longer preach the Gospel. I have suddenly decided, after 13 years, that women should not preach". I can guarantee that their response would be "well if you want to resign, we can't stop you. But you're wrong, and your belief won't change the official position of the church; we will still allow women preachers, and also women Ministers too." They would probably give the theological reasons for this decision and show me what the Bible says about the Ministry of women; but if I was adamant, they would respect my decision. If I was being consistent, I should then refuse to be in a church which allows women to preach. That would mean leaving my church and church family. Where do I go then? My church is a Methodist/URC partnership, so obviously both denominations are happy with women being preachers. Anglicans also allow this, as do the Salvation Army. I don't know whether Baptists do or not.
The only church that I know of which does not allow women to preach is the Catholic church, and there are other things about Catholic teaching which I cannot accept. So why would I go there?

And another thing, even if I resigned tomorrow, I have been preaching the Gospel for 13 years. What do I say to people - "ignore everything I've ever said because women are not allowed to preach. Ignore the Gospel becuase it came to you from a woman"? That's not possible and it's not going to happen.

Maybe you have been deceived just as Eve was.

Maybe you have?

Your 'desire' to BE a 'church leader' has led to what you have mistakenly believed to be 'a calling from God'.

I'm not a church leader, I lead worship and preach the Gospel; something which was not my desire or own idea.

Every day I read stories of those that have killed their children or even strangers and when asked 'why'? Their answer is that God told them to 'do it'.

Yes, and what's the result? They get locked up in prison or psychiatric hospital because they have broken the law; it seems that even unbelievers can recognise that God would not command the killing of an innocent child.

What happens when people, including women, preach the Gospel? God blesses them, honours his word and can change lives - completely the opposite result.

Yet it is 'possible'. But the 'way' it's possible is if one believes that Satan is God. If Satan is one's God, then he most certainly could 'call on that person' to murder. Or do anything opposed to God's will in 'truth'. So when that person says, "God told me to do it". They aren't really 'lying'. They are just confused as to that which they have chosen to believe God is.

And such people will be unbelievers; those who don't KNOW the Good Shepherd and KNOW that they are one of his sheep. They will not spend time with God, listen to him, worship him or bow the knee and confess that he is Saviour and Lord.
Are you saying that God will allow his children, people who belong to him and are filled with his Spirit, to be mislead in a similar way/ Are you comparing the life giving, life changing words of God to unlawful acts of destruction?

What I am offering is that what you 'say' is in contradiction to scripture. Scripture actually contradicts what you offer.

What I say is contrary to your understanding of 1 verse of Scripture.
Yet you, yourself, are happy to teach an unScriptural fact - namely that Eve did not appreciate being made for Adam but wanted to BE him, and this is why she was tempted. That's not Scriptural - yet apparently it's ok for you to teach it as though it were.

You have certainly come to different conclusions than 'anyone else' I have ever listened to that has read the 'same Bible'.

Well you can't have listened to many people then. Lots of people say that women are allowed to preach the Gospel; commentators and theologians who have commented on 1 Timothy 2:12 and come to this conclusion.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Just because I million men said, "Women have been called to shepherd the FLOCK" doesn't mean it isn't written "I DO NOT PERMIT A WOMAN TO TEACH." There are too many religions and too many false teachings to fall prey for. The GOLDEN Ticket is desire, "Guard your Heart," so the epistles said and here is my beloved in the LORD saying, "I have been called," haven't you heard, many will claim, Lord, Lord didn't we cast out demons in your name, didn't we prophesy in your name and I shall tell them, get away from me you evil doers. Or haven't you read, about Saul's disobedience who Sacrificed the fattest rams and he was told, "submission is better than offering the fat of rams." My friend I would rather take heed to God's inscriptions and escape the fires of Hades than to sacrifice everything I have in my life to do something "I have been called to do," yet there's nothing in his Word that commanded this.

I will be cold when I say this, "If it were during the times of Moses, the judgment would have been a lot worse," so think about this CHALLENGE!

 

[Strong in Him]

Just because I million men said, "Women have been called to shepherd the FLOCK" doesn't mean it isn't written "I DO NOT PERMIT A WOMAN TO TEACH."

Just because Paul said "I do not permit a woman to teach" does not mean that God has commanded that women hundreds of years later, living in different cultures, cannot preach. That is the whole point.
Just because Paul said "it is a disgrace for men to have long hair", does not mean that men who have long hair today (and we don't know how long "long" is; below the ears? shoulder length?) have offended God.
Just because Paul said that women should not wear gold in church, does not mean that we all have to change our wedding rings for silver ones or that there was anything wrong with those wedding ceremonies where gold rings were exchanged.
Just because Jesus said "if your right hand causes you to sin; cut it off", does not mean we go around mutilating ourselves and each other.

There are too many religions and too many false teachings to fall prey for.

Agreed. but this is not another religion. In fact it is not even part of the Gospel and necessary for salvation. Sorry but you are going to meet female Ministers in heaven.

The GOLDEN Ticket is desire,

Read my previous posts; this was not my desire nor will.

haven't you heard, many will claim, Lord, Lord didn't we cast out demons in your name, didn't we prophesy in your name and I shall tell them, get away from me you evil doers.

Jesus said not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my heavenly Father.
God's will for us is that we come to Jesus, believe in him, are saved and receive eternal life, John 6:40. I have done that. God's will is also for Jesus to lose none of those who have been saved - do you think Jesus will do his Father's will?

Or haven't you read, about Saul's disobedience who Sacrificed the fattest rams and he was told, "submission is better than offering the fat of rams."

Saul was told not to go into battle until Samuel appeared to offer a sacrifice. He disobeyed, and offered the sacrifice - ie did the work of a priest, himself. He was not called to be a priest and was doing something that was not his calling. My whole stance is that preaching the Gospel IS my calling - and I am submitting to the God who has called me.

My friend I would rather take heed to God's inscriptions and escape the fires of Hades than to sacrifice everything I have in my life to do something "I have been called to do," yet there's nothing in his Word that commanded this.

Jesus commanded his disciples to preach the Good News and tell others about him; just as the woman at the well did when she went back to her town to tell people she had found the Messiah. They believed because of her testimony. Aren't we his disciples too, or are you saying that it is a sin for women to tell others about Jesus?

I will be cold when I say this, "If it were during the times of Moses, the judgment would have been a lot worse,"

Judgement?
Jesus died for my sins, was made sin for me, 2 Corinthians 5:21, took the punishment that should have been mine, and you think I'm going to be condemned because I tell other people about him?

 

[tucker58]

But it is my opinion that there may not 'be any' true 'churches' according to the current definition of 'church'. For every denomination that I have studied was 'created' by 'men', not God, the apostles or Christ.

Imagican , you can not be argued with. You have pasted judgement and your judgement is final .

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Let's look 1 Corinthians 12:28. The Gifts of the Spirit;

1. Apostleship
2. Prophecy
3. Teaching
4. Workers of Miracles
5. Healing
6. Helping
7. Guidance
8. Speaking & Interpretation of tongues

• Apostleship goes to Male,
• Prophecy to Men & Women,
• Teaching goes to male,
• Workers of Miracles (men/women),
• Healing (Men & Women),
• Helping (Men & Women),
• Guidance (Men & Women, possibly Phoebe and female others),
• Speaking & Interpretation of Tongues (Men & Women).

All of them depending on the Scriptures and what I've witnessed in my life.

 

[Strong in Him]

Let's look 1 Corinthians 12:28. The Gifts of the Spirit;

1. Apostleship
2. Prophecy
3. Teaching
4. Workers of Miracles
5. Healing
6. Helping
7. Guidance
8. Speaking & Interpretation of tongues

• Apostleship goes to Male,
• Prophecy to Men & Women,
• Teaching goes to male,
• Workers of Miracles (men/women),
• Healing (Men & Women),
• Helping (Men & Women),
• Guidance (Men & Women, possibly Phoebe and female others),
• Speaking & Interpretation of Tongues (Men & Women).

And where is the Scripture which says that the gifts are restricted and only for men or women?
Phoebe taught Apollos; Apollos was an apostle. Yes, she taught together with her husband but a) she still taught and b) all that shows is that if your husband teaches and preaches, then you can too. Guess what; mine does.

Ephesians 4 says that the Spirit calls some to be Pastors - and does not say that this is for men alone.

All of them depending on the Scriptures and what I've witnessed in my life.

Not exactly because you've only considered the gifts in 1 Corinthians 12. What about those in Romans 12 and Ephesians 4, and why does Scripture never say that these are for men alone?

Also, if you are taking 1 Timothy 2:12 literally, as some have, and believe it needs to be applied literally today, women should not be prophesying because that involves speaking and Paul said they should be silent.
So either he changed his mind, or he contradicted himself or his words were never meant to show that women must be totally silent and not speak. And if you don't apply these words literally, then why apply others?

 

[Strong in Him]

Not exactly because you've only considered the gifts in 1 Corinthians 12. What about those in Romans 12 and Ephesians 4, and why does Scripture never say that these are for men alone?

In essence the Bible 'does' offer that the gifts listed are 'only for men'.

No it doesn't.

Also, if you are taking 1 Timothy 2:12 literally, as some have, and believe it needs to be applied literally today, women should not be prophesying because that involves speaking and Paul said they should be silent.

See how you try to manipulate scripture to 'suit yourself'? NO. It is stated that 'in the 'church' women are to remain silent. Paul says nothing about women remaining 'silent' outside the 'church'. Isn't it 'clear' that use of the term 'church' is in regards to 'the gathering' of the Body?

Obviously I can't be someone who just has a different opinion from you; I am someone who "chooses to ignore" Scripture or "manipulates it" to suit myself.
It obviously suits you to be judgemental.

 

[Strong in Him]

Neither. It is not about Paul, it's about 'you' and your lack of understanding. Paul explains himself quite intricately. It is 'you' that have chosen a contrary 'path' that makes it possible for you to 'misunderstand' Paul's words. No mistake in his words, the misunderstanding lies in 'your desire' to insist upon something 'different'.

How do you suppose that myself and others have come to the understanding that women cannot be 'church leaders' or usurp the authority of the men 'chosen' to fill such positions? Are you honestly going to state that it's because we are 'men'? That it has 'nothing to do' with scripture? Do you believe that it is 'our will' that women cannot truthfully hold such positions? If so, it simply proves that you would rather deceive yourself and accept the 'truth'.

Those that believe as I have outlined over and over believe what they believe because it is what the Bible offers. It is the 'instruction' we have received from God Himself, (if you TRULY believe in the Bible as it exists).

Just about everything written by Paul is offered as the 'Word of God'. Anytime in any of his writings that he offers 'opinion' that he cannot 'say' is the Word of God, he says so. He tells us that he is 'not sure' if his words are direct commandment of God but feels reasonable confident that he IS STILL being led 'by the Spirit' in what he offers. And these instances are quite 'rare' in 'all his writings'. Only a very 'few' instances where he makes it 'clear' that His words are 'not directly inspired'. And even then, it's a matter of 'not being sure'. But he believes that 'everything' he offered was directly inspired through The Holy Spirit.

But in the issues concerning this topic, not 'once' did he offer that he wasn't 'sure' that what he offered were the 'commandments of God'. He actually stated that if anyone considers themselves to be a prophet, (able to rightly divide God's Word), or even Spiritual, that they acknowledge that the words he offered are 'the commandments of God'.

Oh, and as a 'side note': Speaking in tongues is also for 'men only' IN the Church. For if women are to remain 'silent' in the Church, then they obviously cannot speak in 'any tongue' including their own language. So they certainly aren't going to be 'led by the Spirit' to 'do' that which is contrary to God's commandments. For in 'truth', the words of Paul concerning women remaining 'silent' in the Church are offered in the exact same chapter that expounds upon 'speaking in tongues' in the Church. He offers what he offers concerning women remaining 'silent' as a 'conclusion' to his instructions concerning the 'speaking of tongues' IN the Church.

Blessings,

MEC

You and I disagree.
I'm a lay preacher, preaching the gospel and telling others about Jesus. You don't believe that women are allowed to do this. Absolutely fine. But if you can't talk to me without judging and criticising, it's probably best that I don't talk to you.

 

[tucker58]

@ I Magican

I Magican have you ever really read the words of Lord Jesus that are contained in the word of God? John 8:31-32 "If you abide in "My" word, then you are truely disciples of mine; and the truth shall make you free."

I Magican, your claim that the whole Christian Scripture is the word of God and that that word gives you permission to believe as you believe and permission to believe that what you believe is absolutely correct. But Jesus, our Lord and Savior, says to abide in "My" word, then you are truely disciples of Mine. I Magican work your linguistic magic and show us where your words abide in the words of our beloved Lord and Savior our Christ Jesus? Yes I Magican you are a man of God, but are you also a disciple of Lord Jesus? Do you first abide in His words?

 

[Job8]

And, don't we all, or shouldn't we all, want to serve God's purpose for our gender, instead of campaigning for our own worldly gender identity?

Sure, this is how it should be. But a minority of Christian women have been infected with the virus of *evangelical feminism* (an oxymoron at best) so we now have gender neutrality as the ideal situation. Which is pure baloney.

With reference to the title of your thread, there is absolutely no reason to believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are anything but MASCULINE, and spoken of in the masculine gender.

 

[Job8]

If you're saying that 1 Timothy 2:12 proves that women cannot be in leadership; that the words that Paul wrote to that church 2000 years ago are God's command for his church today, then yes, that is your interpretation.

That is not simply this person's private interpretation. It has been the consistent interpret of the majority of Christians (no matter which denomination) since Scripture was written. Therefore any deviation from that interpretation is a deviation from the truth. Scripture was written so that whether a person lived in 50 AD, 500 AD, or 5000 AD, it would be equally applicable.

 

[samir]

The whole idea of women in leadership is such a hot issue, and whenever it comes up it turns into a female-verses-male, equality contest...and it should not be so

I agree. Women are to remain silent in the church. They are to have no authority over a man.

 

[ScottA]

I agree. Women are to remain silent in the church. They are to have no authority over a man.

That is how it is written...and yet we know that gender is more than men and women in God's purpose - that the would be mystery speaks of Christ and the church.