Discussion NAR when did it go wrong, what faults can you list?

AGTG

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I saw that show live via God TV (remember that now long gone channel) I was feeling some kind of spiritual high every night from April till July when I finally saw through the whole sham. Todd Bentley couldn't prove to ABC nightline that at least 15 people had been healed of anything. He gave them three people and all they could say was that they felt better.

In hindsight I could see them with no fruit ... so where did the tingles come from? Where did the counterfeit anointing come from?

.

This is an excellent question because there are supernatural manifestations that can come forth and deceive people. After learning how this works, I made a video exposing what's been going on. It's witchcraft which goes forth through submission and authority. When you submit to any ministry that is operating in hypocrisy (ala 1 Tim. 4:1-2) you will come under the seducing spirits at work in it and the willful witchcraft prayers of the insincere ministers. Check out a video I made on this very thing using footage of ministries at work. It lays it all out how this stuff happens:

 
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ToBeLoved

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And you are concerned with a literal obedience to Moses' law and with church dominion in government?
I sure would. If you think about it people could be stoned like the adulterer that Jesus saved from being stoned. Now if Jesus does not want us under law.

The law was for the Israelite's God didn't put the whole world under the law. It was for religious reasons and to give them a base for values.

If all people were under the law, that would force all people to be under God's law. Do you realize how many people would hate God because of that?
 
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ToBeLoved

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And you are concerned with a literal obedience to Moses' law and with church dominion in government?
You are not? Forcing people to love God and worship Him?

God Himself doesn't want that. He gives us free-choice, so is it Godly to force people?
 
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I saw that show live via God TV (remember that now long gone channel) I was feeling some kind of spiritual high every night from April till July when I finally saw through the whole sham. Todd Bentley couldn't prove to ABC nightline that at least 15 people had been healed of anything. He gave them three people and all they could say was that they felt better.

In hindsight I could see them with no fruit ... so where did the tingles come from? Where did the counterfeit anointing come from?

From my own desire for this to be a major move of God on the earth?

I am a better person now ... thank you Todd for the mistakes you made and I made will keep me out of the reaches of other devil's disciples sent to mis-represent our Lord Jesus.

We all should realize that surely these lessons learned are for the chosen ... NAR is a trap for the unsaved.
If we judge them we sin ... there is only one judge and one law maker leaves discern and learn.
When he started his show on GodTV I was told by someone about this "new and greatest thing from God", so I finally replaced my dead satellite box and sat down to look at what was happening. It did not take me all that long to lose interest where my wife continued on for about four hours, but after maybe an hour I figured that this chap was nothing special and I had seen his type of ministry before - where the hype seems to outweigh any discernible substance.

I was certainly intrigued by his tattoos as I presumed that his previous life (before he was saved) must have been pretty rough and tumble but I was definitely shocked to find out that he went crazy with his tatoos while he was a professing Christian.
 
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ToBeLoved

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When he started his show on GodTV I was told by someone about this "new and greatest thing from God", so I finally replaced my dead satellite box and sat down to look at what was happening. It did not take me all that long to lose interest where my wife continued on for about four hours, but after maybe an hour I figured that this chap was nothing special and I had seen his type of ministry before - where the hype seems to outweigh any discernible substance.

I was certainly intrigued by his tattoos as I presumed that his previous life (before he was saved) must have been pretty rough and tumble but I was definitely shocked to find out that he went crazy with his tatoos while he was a professing Christian.
My personal opinion, which may be way off is that Bentley was chosen because he would reach a certain audience that maybe the others could not reach. I don't know that for a fact, but that is what I think
 
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StanJ

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That was a well thought out post but I would have to add in at least one qualification, in that the Father still speaks to the Church and to his children today through prayer and through the Holy Spirit in prophecy. This does not mean that anything can be added to or taken away from the Scriptures which is something that the various NARzie celebrities have a habit of doing.
Indeed the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in effect today, contrary to what many who are called cessationists tried to teach.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Indeed the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in effect today, contrary to what many who are called cessationists tried to teach.
They are. But I think that we can see that some of these extreme manifestations are not the Holy Spirit. We do not have a God of confusion.
 
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StanJ

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They are. But I think that we can see that some of these extreme manifestations are not the Holy Spirit. We do not have a God of confusion.
Yes, Paul himself teaches that order also involves not drawing attention to one's self. Laughter in the spirit is one thing but sounding like a pig or a dog or anything else is absolutely ludicrous and it's nothing more than an unchecked spirit. "The spirit of the Prophet is subject to the Prophet"
 
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jiminpa

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That's a fair enough question, and I have a well-reasoned, scriptural response. But first, do not presume I'm a cessationist. I'm not. That being said, the Spiritual gifts are not something that people can switch off and on like the NAR ministries teach. They manifest according to God's will as He deems necessary. That may not be as fun as telling a whole congregation to turn and prophesy over one another, though.

And the real issue is that doing such a thing is like erring like Saul did in the Old Testament when he refused to wait on Father God and instead went running after the Witch of Endor. He was able to get into some supernatural stuff, but his end should be a warning for us to be wiser than he.

Jesus Versus the New Apostolic Reformation
This movement opposes clear scripture on so many points it's astonishing:

Numbers 11:4-6 recounts how the Israelites grumbled and lamented having to eat the manna.

That manna, of course, was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ and the supernatural provision of God! Yet these people wanted something more, something exciting to their taste-buds, something that tickled their flesh. The simple, pure provision of God wasn't enough. Sound familiar?

Colossians 2:18-19 warns against people who indulge in sensuous, mystical experiences that puff up their minds and draw them away from obedience to Jesus.

Most of the notable ministries in this movement (Ihop KC, Fire School of Ministry, Morningstar Ministries, and Bethel, among others) have long histories that clearly show their ministries were, in fact, built upon such people and their experiences.

Mark 12:38-40 warns against leaders who devour widow's estates.

Many of these ministries are known for their aggressive fundraising, including encouraging followers to consider "estate planning" in offering their financial support.

Matthew 21:12-13 shows how ungodly it is to hawk goods in a place that has been dedicated to worship God.

Yet the leaders of this movement push their new books from the very pulpit! Then they encourage everyone to stop at the tables they set up to buy before they leave the building.

Matthew 23:15 is a rebuke to those eager to travel halfway across the world in order to make disciples which are nothing more than clones of themselves.

The ministry leaders in this movement globe-trot continually in order to heap up disciples unto themselves. The frequent flyer miles these people amass yearly would shock most people. Moreover, these people are so bent on making clones of themselves, their disciples literally walk, talk, pray, and act just like them!

This is no exaggeration. After watching countless hours of the Ihop KC prayer room web stream I could easily spot which leaders trained whom when they parade themselves through their prayer sessions.

1 Corinthians 3:16-20 plainly states that anyone who embraces the wisdom of the world is deceived and in opposition to God's wisdom.

Over and over again, you will find examples of this movement utilizing worldly reasoning and plans in the guise of working for the Kingdom of God. An example of this is the worldly pyramid scheme structure of the ministries themselves. Peter Wagner, himself, has clearly stated that he embraces worldly ideas as a means to effect ministry.

Dr. Michael L. Brown also pushes worldly models as a means to serving God. His book "Revolution in the Church" clearly points to the 60's counter-culture movement as a model for Christians to co-opt for ministry.

Acts 8:18-22 shows how wicked it is to even consider using the power of God for monetary gain.

Many of these ministries offer costly conferences or fundraising events which feature the opportunity to have them lay hands on you. Reinhard Bonnke and Daniel Kolenda of Christ for All Nations have literally marketed what they call an "Impartation Breakfast."

1 Timothy 5:22 states Christian leaders should not be hasty in the laying on of hands.

These movements are so far off the mark on this point it is shameful. They stumble into any opportunity to lay hands on others or have others lay hands on them. Bethel church's notorious fire tunnel practice is widespread, and I witnessed and participated in many myself at Fire School of Ministry.

1 Samuel 24:11 says not to "touch" the LORD's anointed.

This movement has pushed this idea to such an extreme that they suggest you can't even question or rebuke someone who is off the rails doctrinally, even though David clearly meant physical harm because in the two times David says it he clearly rebukes Saul for his ungodly, out of bounds behaviors.

1 Corinthian 13:8 clearly shows that love is way more important to God than operating in any demonstration of power.

These ministries are absolutely obsessed with supernatural power and religious authority, and completely devoid of genuine love. The truest test is how they treat those who question or oppose their ideas.

I really hate to have to state such a thing, but after a number of years participating in various churches connected to this movement, I was faced with one of two conclusions: Either Christianity is a very, very nasty business, or something is very, very wrong with this movement.

Hebrews 9:22 and 11:4 show two things: that without the shedding of blood there can be no atonement for sin, and Abel's sacrifice was based upon faith in God.

Multiple times, I've heard preached that Cain's offering was not acceptable because it wasn't his "first-fruit" offering. In other words, congregants had better give ministries the first cut of their income.

Meanwhile, that scripture is meant to support the foreshadow of Christ's blood sacrifice in Abel's offering! Cain's offering was unacceptable not because it wasn't his first-fruit offering, but because it lacked blood and was not motivated by faith in God.

2 Corinthians 9:7 shows God's heart for those who give: He wants us to give cheerfully, and not under compulsion.

Overwhelmingly, this movement demands 10% from their followers. They compel people using Old Testament scriptures which do not apply to New Covenant believers, but will draw people into legalism and a very deep level of submission.

Matthew 6:5 warns against making a show of prayer in public.

Mike Bickle has built his current ministry on literally making a show of prayer in public with Ihop KC's 24/7 web stream of their prayer room. Moreover, most leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation pride themselves on how "prayerful" they are as a so-called "prophetic" movement.

John 13:10 plainly states that those who believe and follow Jesus are clean in His eyes.

This movement demands Christians to participate in deliverance ministry suggesting they are demon infested and need to be cleansed. Why do they do this? Because it draws people who agree with them to a deep level of submission and a deep deception.

John 13:35 states that Christians will be known by their love for one another.

The prophetic teachings of this movement push a very nasty idea that anyone who has a prophetic calling will be readily abused and rejected by authorities and brethren. How many people within these churches are under the delusion that the abuse they're facing is simply because they are so "prophetic" and God has appointed them to such treatment?

Ephesians 5:1 says to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

This movement believes that means to submit out of reverence for Christ within other men, meanwhile the Old Testament is full of God's warnings to treat people right out of fear (reverence) of Him. You can bet Paul was referencing those scriptures and that any model of submission and authority between people should reflect that fact.

Matthew 16:6 warns people to beware of false teachers and their bad ideas which will change the way you look at God's truth.

This movement encourages people to embrace false teachers by suggesting we should "Eat the meat and spit out the bone."

Jesus used the metaphor of leaven when warning against such teachers because their bad ideas will permeate the rest of their teachings. You cannot eat around the leaven in a slice of bread, you will end up eating the leaven. We should just stay away from such teachers completely.

Matthew 16:39 warns that it's wicked and adulterous to seek after a sign.

This movement, of course, is all about seeking after signs and wonders.

Matthew 7:22 says some interesting things. Jesus said, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

This is very interesting knowing what these ministries are like. First, they prided themselves in their prophetic ministry. Next, it's clear they liked to push deliverance ministry upon people. Finally, Jesus says these people will declare how miraculous and supernatural their ministries were. All of it done in the name of Jesus. Sound familiar?

Jesus' response to such people should make the participants of the New Apostolic Reformation shudder:

"I never knew you. Away from Me, you evildoers!"
I don't have the time to go point to point on that right now. Hopefully, I will in a day or two. For now I will just say that most of what you posted is non-sequeter as far as I can see.
 
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Biblicist

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My personal opinion, which may be way off is that Bentley was chosen because he would reach a certain audience that maybe the others could not reach. I don't know that for a fact, but that is what I think
One of the traps that those of us who stand against NARzie teachings, is that it can be easy to fail to recognise that there are many fine Believers who have succumbed to their teachings. Many may have simply found themselves within a congregation that has slowly adopted NARzie principles and unless they are well grounded in the Word then it can be easy to give way to their teachings.

Others who may live in smaller town may have discovered that the only church in town that seems to be half alive could be a NARzie congregation, so they may decide that where the other church/s in town are pretty dead that the NARzie one could be a better choice. There’s a NARzie congregation not far from me where I happen to know a few of the people, where in my opinion, they are Believers of good repute and character but for some reason they have been prepared to accept the more recent inroads by NARzism.

There are of course those who I would deem to be type who would fall for every shonky NARzie celebrity who comes into town, where once a particular NARzie celebrity falls, they say, “Oh well, we’ve learnt from their experiences” where they then move on to the next one until he falls, where they continue along this pathway until they reach the grave.
 
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AGTG

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I don't have the time to go point to point on that right now. Hopefully, I will in a day or two. For now I will just say that most of what you posted is non-sequeter as far as I can see.

I know what this movement is like. Being aware of their philosophies, practices, and theology has allowed me to prove their actions oppose scripture on point after point. I'm not expecting you to rebut, I'm hoping your reasonable enough to recognize how scriptures defy this movement clearly.

And if it defies scripture, it defies Jesus, and if it defies Jesus, it's antichrist.
 
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AGTG

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I don't have the time to go point to point on that right now. Hopefully, I will in a day or two. For now I will just say that most of what you posted is non-sequeter as far as I can see.

One of the first things submitting yourself to manipulative, hypocritical ministries who are overrun with seducing spirits will bring is spiritual blindness. They hate it when people use their reasoning skills, it's a threat to their control.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I don't have the time to go point to point on that right now. Hopefully, I will in a day or two. For now I will just say that most of what you posted is non-sequeter as far as I can see.
Well I hope that your reply will be thorough dealing with each point in detail. I will be interested to read it once it is posted.
 
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ToBeLoved

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One of the traps that those of us who stand against NARzie teachings, is that it can be easy to fail to recognise that there are many fine Believers who have succumbed to their teachings. Many may have simply found themselves within a congregation that has slowly adopted NARzie principles and unless they are well grounded in the Word then it can be easy to give way to their teachings.
This is so true Bibs. I'm so glad you added this.
 
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jiminpa

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I know what this movement is like. Being aware of their philosophies, practices, and theology has allowed me to prove their actions oppose scripture on point after point. I'm not expecting you to rebut, I'm hoping your reasonable enough to recognize how scriptures defy this movement clearly.

And if it defies scripture, it defies Jesus, and if it defies Jesus, it's antichrist.
^Nice sounding words, but I have enough respect for the scriptures to apply them in context, and toward things those you are accusing are actually doing and not based on hearsay and gossip.

So when I have a little more time I will specifically address your post, assuming that I actually get the time.

For now I just wanted to make it clear to the forum that I find most of your citations out of context or unfounded. I will try to address it better soon.
 
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jiminpa

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That's a fair enough question, and I have a well-reasoned, scriptural response. But first, do not presume I'm a cessationist. I'm not. That being said, the Spiritual gifts are not something that people can switch off and on like the NAR ministries teach. They manifest according to God's will as He deems necessary. That may not be as fun as telling a whole congregation to turn and prophesy over one another, though.

And the real issue is that doing such a thing is like erring like Saul did in the Old Testament when he refused to wait on Father God and instead went running after the Witch of Endor. He was able to get into some supernatural stuff, but his end should be a warning for us to be wiser than he.

Jesus Versus the New Apostolic Reformation
This movement opposes clear scripture on so many points it's astonishing:

Numbers 11:4-6 recounts how the Israelites grumbled and lamented having to eat the manna.

That manna, of course, was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ and the supernatural provision of God! Yet these people wanted something more, something exciting to their taste-buds, something that tickled their flesh. The simple, pure provision of God wasn't enough. Sound familiar?
So somehow wanting more of what God is offering is like rejecting God's provision?
Colossians 2:18-19 warns against people who indulge in sensuous, mystical experiences that puff up their minds and draw them away from obedience to Jesus.

Most of the notable ministries in this movement (Ihop KC, Fire School of Ministry, Morningstar Ministries, and Bethel, among others) have long histories that clearly show their ministries were, in fact, built upon such people and their experiences.
Do you have examples of this? It also warns against accepting false criticism for holding fast to the scriptures
Mark 12:38-40 warns against leaders who devour widow's estates.

Many of these ministries are known for their aggressive fundraising, including encouraging followers to consider "estate planning" in offering their financial support.
Again, do you have examples of them demanding the homes of widows and then not providing for those widows? If they do this, then the ones who do it are in jeopardy. If you have a problem with teaching on tithing then you need to take that up with the Author, because Jesus told the pharisees that they should have not only tithed but taken care of widows too.
Matthew 21:12-13
Matthew 23:15 is a rebuke to those eager to travel halfway across the world in order to make disciples which are nothing more than clones of themselves.

The ministry leaders in this movement globe-trot continually in order to heap up disciples unto themselves. The frequent flyer miles these people amass yearly would shock most people. Moreover, these people are so bent on making clones of themselves, their disciples literally walk, talk, pray, and act just like them!

This is no exaggeration. After watching countless hours of the Ihop KC prayer room web stream I could easily spot which leaders trained whom when they parade themselves through their prayer sessions.
You must now establish that they, 1. are sons of Hell, 2. are making disciples of themselves and not Jesus. The problem here is that the NAR people I've seen always put Jesus above themselves.
1 Corinthians 3:16-20 plainly states that anyone who embraces the wisdom of the world is deceived and in opposition to God's wisdom.

Over and over again, you will find examples of this movement utilizing worldly reasoning and plans in the guise of working for the Kingdom of God. An example of this is the worldly pyramid scheme structure of the ministries themselves. Peter Wagner, himself, has clearly stated that he embraces worldly ideas as a means to effect ministry.

Dr. Michael L. Brown also pushes worldly models as a means to serving God. His book "Revolution in the Church" clearly points to the 60's counter-culture movement as a model for Christians to co-opt for ministry.
So you criticize them for submitting to an accountability structure, but if they did not have anyone that they are accountable to then you would call them lone rangers. They can't win in this one against anyone who is fault-finding.
Acts 8:18-22 shows how wicked it is to even consider using the power of God for monetary gain.

Many of these ministries offer costly conferences or fundraising events which feature the opportunity to have them lay hands on you. Reinhard Bonnke and Daniel Kolenda of Christ for All Nations have literally marketed what they call an "Impartation Breakfast."
Again, the worker is worthy of his hire. They can't constantly lose thousands of dollars, and never bring any money in. People want others to work for free and not pay their bills and feed their families. I get that at work when someone says that my company charges too much. What they are really saying is that I am not worthy of my wage and that my children should starve to save the customer $3 a month for something that they don't actually need.
1 Timothy 5:22 states Christian leaders should not be hasty in the laying on of hands.

These movements are so far off the mark on this point it is shameful. They stumble into any opportunity to lay hands on others or have others lay hands on them. Bethel church's notorious fire tunnel practice is widespread, and I witnessed and participated in many myself at Fire School of Ministry.
I've always found most translations to be incredibly vague about what that meant, since Paul, the one who penned the letter under the Holy Spirit's inspiration, laid hands on quite a few people, so I checked multiple translations.
1 Timothy 5:22Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
22 Do not be in a hurry in the laying on of hands [giving the sanction of the church too hastily in reinstating expelled offenders or in ordination in questionable cases], nor share or participate in another man’s sins; keep yourself pure.
So again, the Bible doesn't say what you want it to on the matter.
1 Samuel 24:11 says not to "touch" the LORD's anointed.

This movement has pushed this idea to such an extreme that they suggest you can't even question or rebuke someone who is off the rails doctrinally, even though David clearly meant physical harm because in the two times David says it he clearly rebukes Saul for his ungodly, out of bounds behaviors.
Can you cite times that those in this movement have said that against valid criticisms?
Hebrews 9:22 and 11:4 show two things: that without the shedding of blood there can be no atonement for sin, and Abel's sacrifice was based upon faith in God.

Multiple times, I've heard preached that Cain's offering was not acceptable because it wasn't his "first-fruit" offering. In other words, congregants had better give ministries the first cut of their income.

Meanwhile, that scripture is meant to support the foreshadow of Christ's blood sacrifice in Abel's offering! Cain's offering was unacceptable not because it wasn't his first-fruit offering, but because it lacked blood and was not motivated by faith in God.
Insignificant issue, but they may not have it quite right. You don't either. Hebrews doesn't say that it was lack of blood in the sacrifice that displeased God. That may well be the case, but you haven't established that in scripture. It says later in Hebrews that we can sacrifice with praise.
2 Corinthians 9:7 shows God's heart for those who give: He wants us to give cheerfully, and not under compulsion.

Overwhelmingly, this movement demands 10% from their followers. They compel people using Old Testament scriptures which do not apply to New Covenant believers, but will draw people into legalism and a very deep level of submission.
You are recycling your arguments here, and yet you still don't have a scripture to stand on. The New Testament never ends tithing, anywhere, and Jesus endorses it, so you are attempting to criticize others for being more scriptural than you yourself are willing to be. Sure, we should give our tithes and offering with joy, but Biblically, we should give them.
Mike Bickle has built his current ministry on literally making a show of prayer in public with Ihop KC's 24/7 web stream of their prayer room. Moreover, most leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation pride themselves on how "prayerful" they are as a so-called "prophetic" movement.
So out of context that it actually changes the meaning. Yes, Jesus did say not to pray to be seen, which is different from being seen praying. It is also written that man looks to appearance, but God looks to the heart. Yes, IHOP prays in public, so that those watching can pray in unity. That's awesome. Jesus prayed in public. Did He sin? Do your pastors and teachers not ever pray in public? Is there no prayer in your church services?
This movement demands Christians to participate in deliverance ministry suggesting they are demon infested and need to be cleansed. Why do they do this? Because it draws people who agree with them to a deep level of submission and a deep deception.
Or maybe they are suggesting, that Satan is an intruder and that we are not to give him any footholds.
John 13:35 states that Christians will be known by their love for one another.

The prophetic teachings of this movement push a very nasty idea that anyone who has a prophetic calling will be readily abused and rejected by authorities and brethren. How many people within these churches are under the delusion that the abuse they're facing is simply because they are so "prophetic" and God has appointed them to such treatment?
This very thread demonstrates that they are correct. It is full of condemnations for not following the idols of the day and unsubstantiated accusations of sins, that haven't been shown to exist.
Ephesians 5:1 says to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

This movement believes that means to submit out of reverence for Christ within other men, meanwhile the Old Testament is full of God's warnings to treat people right out of fear (reverence) of Him. You can bet Paul was referencing those scriptures and that any model of submission and authority between people should reflect that fact.
What?
Matthew 16:6 warns people to beware of false teachers and their bad ideas which will change the way you look at God's truth.

This movement encourages people to embrace false teachers by suggesting we should "Eat the meat and spit out the bone."

Jesus used the metaphor of leaven when warning against such teachers because their bad ideas will permeate the rest of their teachings. You cannot eat around the leaven in a slice of bread, you will end up eating the leaven. We should just stay away from such teachers completely.
...and on that note you condemn yourself. You have been shown here to lack perfection in your own teachings. Like the fictitious Star Trek mechanism Nomad you must now renounce yourself for not meeting your own standard of perfection. Nomad destroyed himself for being flawed. I am not even remotely suggesting that, but I am suggesting the next time you want to identify an imperfect teacher that you start a little closer to home.
Matthew 7:22 says some interesting things. Jesus said, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

This is very interesting knowing what these ministries are like. First, they prided themselves in their prophetic ministry. Next, it's clear they liked to push deliverance ministry upon people. Finally, Jesus says these people will declare how miraculous and supernatural their ministries were. All of it done in the name of Jesus. Sound familiar?

Jesus' response to such people should make the participants of the New Apostolic Reformation shudder:

"I never knew you. Away from Me, you evildoers!"
So are you saying that anyone who operates in these gifts is not known by Jesus? If that's not what you are saying then you need to establish, by some other means than the operation of the gifts, that these people do not know God.
 
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lismore

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I searched for NAR on the internet and I am surprised by the volume of material available but even moreso the influence the movement purportedly has. Below is an clip lifted from a website. This topic suddenly has my curiosity and I will attempt to get current on the subject.

"But NAR leaders teach that God began restoring the office of prophet to the church in the 1980s and the office of apostle in the 1990s. C. Peter Wagner — one of the movement’s most influential U.S. apostles — teaches that 2001 A.D. marked the beginning of the “Second Apostolic Age,” when the proper church government — headed by living apostles and prophets — was finally restored." http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2977-new-apostolic-reformation-overview

Hello. Never heard of 'Nar' until reading this thread. But one question, if God had to restore the offices of Apostle and prophet does that mean they went away or lapsed? Is that the view of the group (NAR) :)
 
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AGTG

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Hello. Never heard of 'Nar' until reading this thread. But one question, if God had to restore the offices of Apostle and prophet does that mean they went away or lapsed? Is that the view of the group (NAR) :)

It's an important part of their theology to suggest God is doing something new and special now, as that allows them to freewheel fast and loose without adherence to scripture.

And JiminPA, you're entitled to your opinions, but it appears to me that the word of God does not have the authority it should in your walk.
 
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jiminpa

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It's an important part of their theology to suggest God is doing something new and special now, as that allows them to freewheel fast and loose without adherence to scripture.

And JiminPA, you're entitled to your opinions, but it appears to me that the word of God does not have the authority it should in your walk.
And that's your opinion. Personally, I think that I'm not the one lacking in recognizing the authority of scripture, which is why it's so important to me to use them as they are written and in context. I try to let them change me, not for me to try to change them. Not everyone takes them so seriously.
 
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