[MOVED] I want real honest opinions

Avniel

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Lately on the news I just notice more and more black men dying. Truthfully it's either by the police or it's by the brother that looks just like you. I feel like to a degree in America either you stay who you are, who you were raised to be, the person you love or you conform and become a different person. Even then you are still subjected to occasional police interactions that are demoralizing and horrible. At the very least unprofessional and emasculating typically.

A great deal of my friends have started taking a good deal of international jobs. A good deal of them mentioned some countries more racist some countries far less racist.

It's not just that, I look at the images the media project to these black boys and girls to be. Manipulating a culture to gain dollars but destroying the people's entire self image. Confirming the slavish mentalities passed from ancestor to ancestor. I don't want that for my children.

Opinions? Questions? I'm really thinking about this the deeper I get into my studies
 

mkgal1

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I live in a pretty racially diverse area.....so I don't see things around me like what's been shown in the media. Do you (Avniel) believe that racism is escalating---or that it's just being brought to light (and will hopefully be lessened b/c of it being brought to light)?
 
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Avniel

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I live in a pretty racially diverse area.....so I don't see things around me like what's been shown in the media. Do you (Avniel) believe that racism is escalating---or that it's just being brought to light (and will hopefully be lessened b/c of it being brought to light)?
I believe it has been brought to life. I live in New York now but I've lived in Alabama, Georgia, Lousiana, Maryland, Florida, Rhode Island, North Carolina, Mississippi and New Jersey. Racially diverse places have a different type of racism. Have you asked any minorities in your area their view on race relations?

There are a few small towns I've been to that you really can't feel any racism. I went to a few small towns in Kansas like that.

I think if America listen to the people that are living the lives. When you have group of people immediately accusing a person there has been negative situations that validate the stereotype. I think it shows the extent that America has no idea what being black is in America and I think blacks know the extent of the issue.
 
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mkgal1

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Racially diverse places have a different type of racism. Have you asked any minorities in your area their view on race relations?

If we're going by numbers---as a Caucasian that's born and raised in the US......I'd probably be the one considered to be the minority.

I believe we're on the winds of change (hoping so, anyway).......
 
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ValleyGal

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I don't know much about the racial situation in the US, especially in New York, etc. I do work with a colleague who is from North Dakota, though, and her children are black. One lives very close to Ferguson, and he said that what you are seeing in the media is not really an accurate reflection of the reality there. You are only seeing what media wants you to see, and that is often one-sided. Before you come to any conclusions of race issues there, make sure you have all the facts from all sides of a situation.
 
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Avniel

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If we're going by numbers---as a Caucasian that's born and raised in the US......I'd probably be the one considered to be the minority.

I believe we're on the winds of change (hoping so, anyway).......
I think that's part of the problem. When people tell "minorities" how whites are actually a minority it kind of marginalizes an entire group of individuals American experience. When we turn on the tv who do we see? When we vote who do we typical vote for? White native born Americans......

The reality that you're a minority only makes the situation much sadder.
 
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Avniel

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I don't know much about the racial situation in the US, especially in New York, etc. I do work with a colleague who is from North Dakota, though, and her children are black. One lives very close to Ferguson, and he said that what you are seeing in the media is not really an accurate reflection of the reality there. You are only seeing what media wants you to see, and that is often one-sided. Before you come to any conclusions of race issues there, make sure you have all the facts from all sides of a situation.
Yes, true however the general incident. You have an entire group of people saying charge the officer. In Zimmerman's situation why are people talking about police brutality?

There is a certain nasty interaction there 6 times out of 10. People are tired of that interaction. The lady that hung herself, she probably did but we automatically blamed the police officer because as we as black people recognize "theeeeeeey do the most." A lot of the time it's illegal, I've heard of police sneaking into people's home.
 
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ValleyGal

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There is perversion and ignorance everywhere. There are likely some good black cops and some corrupt black cops. There are caucasian good cops and corrupt ones.

That is not to say racism does not exist. Of course it does; there is a huge over-representation of black people in the prison system, etc. I'm just saying that in every situation it is wise to consider what you don't see in the media, as well as the bias of the person or channel doing the reporting.
 
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Avniel

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There is perversion and ignorance everywhere. There are likely some good black cops and some corrupt black cops. There are caucasian good cops and corrupt ones.

That is not to say racism does not exist. Of course it does; there is a huge over-representation of black people in the prison system, etc. I'm just saying that in every situation it is wise to consider what you don't see in the media, as well as the bias of the person or channel doing the reporting.
You see the problem in America is a bit deeper than you have good cops bad cops. It's an image of the black community, how often do you here the articulate person in the community on the news, where have the shows like a different world gone?

Watch blacks on reality TV and see the lowest in the community.

The police department have an image of what criminal looks like. The only problem is when you go to the hbcus and the see the guys hustling in the projects it's the same looks, it's the same car and the same slang.

That's the problem.
 
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Avniel

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There is perversion and ignorance everywhere. There are likely some good black cops and some corrupt black cops. There are caucasian good cops and corrupt ones.

That is not to say racism does not exist. Of course it does; there is a huge over-representation of black people in the prison system, etc. I'm just saying that in every situation it is wise to consider what you don't see in the media, as well as the bias of the person or channel doing the reporting.
There is but everywhere there isn't such a heavy media influence and such deep history of racial division. It's not just the individuals it's in the culture.
 
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Dave-W

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You see the problem in America is a bit deeper than you have good cops bad cops. It's an image of the black community, how often do you here the articulate person in the community on the news, where have the shows like a different world gone?
And despite what the Black Lives Matter crowd says, Native Americans have a 20% HIGHER chance (per capita) to be shot by police or die in custody.
 
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Avniel

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And despite what the Black Lives Matter crowd says, Native Americans have a 20% HIGHER chance (per capita) to be shot by police or die in custody.
Right none the less it shows racial discrimination your statement kind of proves my point of racial discrimination within the culture. I mean sure if you're white in America it's a great country but if your not there is a little negative I guess you have to weigh into when you have the opportunity to leave.
 
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LinkH

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You see the problem in America is a bit deeper than you have good cops bad cops. It's an image of the black community, how often do you here the articulate person in the community on the news, where have the shows like a different world gone?




Watch blacks on reality TV and see the lowest in the community.

The police department have an image of what criminal looks like. The only problem is when you go to the hbcus and the see the guys hustling in the projects it's the same looks, it's the same car and the same slang.

That's the problem.


I think that is a part of the problem.

I'll share my opinion, since you asked for it. It may not be too popular. If you feel like the police are overly suspicious of you and don't treat you with the same level of respect that they'd treat whites or Asians, I'd take your word for it. And think what you pointed out may be a part of it.

But I also so a video from a black preacher who was interviewed on TV during the riots or right after, and he had some good points to make. He said that a lot of black youths are disrespectful toward police officers and if they would go along with the policeman's instructions in a respectful manner, then these things wouldn't happen. One of the shootings allegedly happened when a very large 17-year-old who had recently robbed a store allegedly rushed a police officer, and the officer was following his training. For me, that's not worth rioting over. If someone dies doing that, it's sad, but you shouldn't rush police officers. If that is not what happened and the boy wasn't being aggressive, or if someone gets shot running away, I can understand protests over that. People should not riot, anyway, of course.

This is politically incorrect, but much of black, inner city culture is a big mess morally in terms of sexuality and family. Much of the country is, too, but it's a really big deal in the black community. I read an article (by an American black man, btw) pointing out that after the government started giving out money to single mothers, single motherhood went way up, especially in black communities. I don't remember the exact statistics, but the number of households without fathers is staggering in the black community. It's a problem with whites, too, but a smaller percentage. I don't think it's only money. The philosophy about sex changed with the sexual revolution. My wife is from Indonesia, and she was commenting on how shocking it is to see on TV that people will actually go on national TV and talk about all the people they were sleeping with and do paternity tests. Why aren't these people ashamed for sleeping around like that? She saw Jerry Springer at my mom's house, she said, when she first came to the US, and she was utterly shocked by that. We don't watch much TV.

I don't know the statistics, but I know that there are statistics about kids not doing as well in school, having more problems with crime, more teen pregnancy, probably more drug abuse, etc. when there isn't a father in the home. I can't expect youths who were raised without a father to, on average, be as respectful to a police officer as the ones with a child in the home.

So you do end up with police officers, often white police officers, who encounter blacks youths who are disrespectful or are breaking the law. And there is the whole media stereotype from rap music and movies of the black thug. Between these two things, a white cop in the inner city may end up being more suspicious of blacks than he is of whites. If nothing else, if he's a minority, his self-defense mechanisms may kick in. He's not part of the 'in-group', sociologically speaking, and he sticks out like a sore thumb.

Every once in a while, I'll hear someone say that when x% of people on death row are black and only y% of the population is black, that this is proof positive of systemic racism. I find a problem with that logic. If a higher percentage of blacks are committing death-penalty crimes, then that isn't proof of racism. Now if whites and blacks are committing these crimes at the same rate or being convicted of these same crimes at the same rates, and more blacks get the death penalty, then they have a solid case for racism. As a white man, it doesn't go over well for me to say stuff like that. Black leaders need to have that message and talk about cleaning up some of the issues in their communities. Black preachers certainly have a role to play. I really appreciate it when I hear black preachers talk about the need for sexual morality, for returning to marriage, to fathers in the home, and that sort of thing. I'm happy to see in your posts that you are a family man, that you work hard to support them, and that you are successful. I think if we saw more of those basic things in black communities, it would really help the image of blacks in this country and also help prevent some of the crime. Marriage and fathers in the home would help a lot.

I know I don't have first-hand experience being stopped by the police as a black man. But a lot of whites outside of these areas don't like to see protests or riots when it looks like the person who killed had attacked a police officer. It doesn't make sense to me to riot over that. I can understand the other perspective. I understand grief and mourning. I do get the outrage if someone is put in the police car and arrives dead at the other end. I don't think they should cruficy the cops in effigy before an investigation, but that certainly should be taken seriously. And shooting someone who is running is also another thing that should outrage people. I do wish some of the black community leaders (who go by 'Rev.') should be more careful about trying to stir up racial animosity over every issue like this. If someone robs a store and attacks a policeman and dies, I don't think they should grandstand and make it a racism issue, stirring up trouble. There are cases where it is a more legitimate concern. I wonder if some of these leaders who have one hammar, racism, just enjoy the limelight or donations to their cause too much, and aren't responsible enough to consider whether what they say will cause division and stir up trouble in the community. There are times when racism is a real issue, and I can understand that.

I watched a video on YouTube recently that's titled "Don't Stay in School." The content is better than the title of the rap. It's a rap from a white English guy about how the curriculum in school taught him a lot of useless knowledge about Shakespeare and dissecting frogs, but didn't teach him the laws for the country he lived in or how to handle money, etc. I got a civics class in high school that I thought did a pretty good job of explaining the basics of the federal government. I took a law elective in high school, which was probably one of the most useful courses. But I think most students never learn in school what the scope of the policeman's rights are, and how to respond if they are arrested or detained. I think that sort of thing, and teaching some basic respect in schools, across all races of course, could be very helpful. Also, if people knew the limitations of the rights of the police, that could put some limits on what they do, and eventually the students who took the high school course would be the police officers.
 
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Avniel

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I think that is a part of the problem.

I'll share my opinion, since you asked for it. It may not be too popular. If you feel like the police are overly suspicious of you and don't treat you with the same level of respect that they'd treat whites or Asians, I'd take your word for it. And think what you pointed out may be a part of it.

But I also so a video from a black preacher who was interviewed on TV during the riots or right after, and he had some good points to make. He said that a lot of black youths are disrespectful toward police officers and if they would go along with the policeman's instructions in a respectful manner, then these things wouldn't happen. One of the shootings allegedly happened when a very large 17-year-old who had recently robbed a store allegedly rushed a police officer, and the officer was following his training. For me, that's not worth rioting over. If someone dies doing that, it's sad, but you shouldn't rush police officers. If that is not what happened and the boy wasn't being aggressive, or if someone gets shot running away, I can understand protests over that. People should not riot, anyway, of course.


This is politically incorrect, but much of black, inner city culture is a big mess morally in terms of sexuality and family. Much of the country is, too, but it's a really big deal in the black community. I read an article (by an American black man, btw) pointing out that after the government started giving out money to single mothers, single motherhood went way up, especially in black communities. I don't remember the exact statistics, but the number of households without fathers is staggering in the black community. It's a problem with whites, too, but a smaller percentage. I don't think it's only money. The philosophy about sex changed with the sexual revolution. My wife is from Indonesia, and she was commenting on how shocking it is to see on TV that people will actually go on national TV and talk about all the people they were sleeping with and do paternity tests. Why aren't these people ashamed for sleeping around like that? She saw Jerry Springer at my mom's house, she said, when she first came to the US, and she was utterly shocked by that. We don't watch much TV.

I don't know the statistics, but I know that there are statistics about kids not doing as well in school, having more problems with crime, more teen pregnancy, probably more drug abuse, etc. when there isn't a father in the home. I can't expect youths who were raised without a father to, on average, be as respectful to a police officer as the ones with a child in the home.

So you do end up with police officers, often white police officers, who encounter blacks youths who are disrespectful or are breaking the law. And there is the whole media stereotype from rap music and movies of the black thug. Between these two things, a white cop in the inner city may end up being more suspicious of blacks than he is of whites. If nothing else, if he's a minority, his self-defense mechanisms may kick in. He's not part of the 'in-group', sociologically speaking, and he sticks out like a sore thumb.

Every once in a while, I'll hear someone say that when x% of people on death row are black and only y% of the population is black, that this is proof positive of systemic racism. I find a problem with that logic. If a higher percentage of blacks are committing death-penalty crimes, then that isn't proof of racism. Now if whites and blacks are committing these crimes at the same rate or being convicted of these same crimes at the same rates, and more blacks get the death penalty, then they have a solid case for racism. As a white man, it doesn't go over well for me to say stuff like that. Black leaders need to have that message and talk about cleaning up some of the issues in their communities. Black preachers certainly have a role to play. I really appreciate it when I hear black preachers talk about the need for sexual morality, for returning to marriage, to fathers in the home, and that sort of thing. I'm happy to see in your posts that you are a family man, that you work hard to support them, and that you are successful. I think if we saw more of those basic things in black communities, it would really help the image of blacks in this country and also help prevent some of the crime. Marriage and fathers in the home would help a lot.

I know I don't have first-hand experience being stopped by the police as a black man. But a lot of whites outside of these areas don't like to see protests or riots when it looks like the person who killed had attacked a police officer. It doesn't make sense to me to riot over that. I can understand the other perspective. I understand grief and mourning. I do get the outrage if someone is put in the police car and arrives dead at the other end. I don't think they should cruficy the cops in effigy before an investigation, but that certainly should be taken seriously. And shooting someone who is running is also another thing that should outrage people. I do wish some of the black community leaders (who go by 'Rev.') should be more careful about trying to stir up racial animosity over every issue like this. If someone robs a store and attacks a policeman and dies, I don't think they should grandstand and make it a racism issue, stirring up trouble. There are cases where it is a more legitimate concern. I wonder if some of these leaders who have one hammar, racism, just enjoy the limelight or donations to their cause too much, and aren't responsible enough to consider whether what they say will cause division and stir up trouble in the community. There are times when racism is a real issue, and I can understand that.

I watched a video on YouTube recently that's titled "Don't Stay in School." The content is better than the title of the rap. It's a rap from a white English guy about how the curriculum in school taught him a lot of useless knowledge about Shakespeare and dissecting frogs, but didn't teach him the laws for the country he lived in or how to handle money, etc. I got a civics class in high school that I thought did a pretty good job of explaining the basics of the federal government. I took a law elective in high school, which was probably one of the most useful courses. But I think most students never learn in school what the scope of the policeman's rights are, and how to respond if they are arrested or detained. I think that sort of thing, and teaching some basic respect in schools, across all races of course, could be very helpful. Also, if people knew the limitations of the rights of the police, that could put some limits on what they do, and eventually the students who took the high school course would be the police officers.

You know what I think the thing a lot of people have to remember a lot of time these police officers are outside of their legal rights. There is no way you can just search my car, with giving me reason for the stop....because my grandma lives in the bronx and I drive a nice car? I think it get's to the point where it's like 1) what you are doing is very illegal 2) what you are doing is very insulting 3) not only that you're going to be rude when you do it.......so now there is a point of pride involved. It get's to the point where you're looking at this guy violating you and all you can think is "if he didn't have that badge on." I've been cussed out by a police officer when I was in a car accident because they felt I was being petty and they didn't want to do the paper work that it took them an hour to do. I think what people aren't understanding is yeah he may be aggressive but a lot of black people don't care it's not about him it's about a community that is tired of dealing with situations similar to what I listed.

Part of the problem is pride, due to a lack of father's due to a lack of need to have them of course pushes us to some form of media promoted masculinity. Imagine a boy that was raised by nothing but women, growing up in a culture that promotes an image of black men being a thug. He goes to school with children in the same situation and some of them know it's nonsense but some of them don't. A great deal of them have this false male pride ego that no one can touch them or that they are untouchable. That's what being a man is about and never let anyone push you. Now on the other side you have a man that is in total control of the situation. Around someone that appears to be a thug, walks like a thug, talks like a thug so why don't we just violate his rights. Push him up against some stuff, slam him hard, bend the rules a little bit however the problem is they aren't 100% right.

Not only aren't they 100% these people get paid based on numbers. So they are frustrated you are mad you didn't do anything wrong so you're frustrated as well. Remind you this is in front of your daughter, you have brand new white t v neck j crew t shirt on, with some white jordans......laying on the ground in front of your daughter for what? Do you know how embarasssing that is? Or how that feels to hear your child cry because of that?

They get the same attitude I use to give comcast, unprofessional people are allowed to be rude to its america. They have a job to do, if they have to explain to me an order....if they have to arrest a person it should be done at a professional manner or the rudeness aggressive tone is the least.

A lot of guys think the police try to get you to confront them to meet their numbers. I've heard that several times, that's how crazy it is.......


When you look at most people in prison you typically see a lot of nonviolent drug offenders. However statistically there should be more whites in jail, does the stats of whites convicted for drug offenses vs black direct us to racial targeting? I certainly believe so.......when we look at the stats for the same exact crime a black man commits a white man will get less time. That is the legal precedent that has been set by our judicial system. Even when you look on the war on drugs you notice certain illogical factors. Even if we look at the names on resumes we find that people with names identified with the black culture are less likely to be hired.


You don't get the anger because it hasn't happened to you. That's what we are really mad about, it's not that it's happened to other people it's it happened to them. Anytime you see a black person talking negative about all police or in general accepting all negatives about a story it has nothing to do with the situation.......it's about them and their personal issues and their constantly bruised pride.
 
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Avniel

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That's what I am saying most of my friends don't even like the black leaders, most educated people don't like those specific black leaders but we recognize there is a problem. When people say that they stir it up it's like saying that when the police officer had me on the ground in front of my daughter for nothing, it was because I did something wrong.

I would feel racial tension in America if I never heard of them. There is no black leaders in the black community MLK and Malcolm X were the last two. They couldn't even lead the black community totally, nobody is strong enough to lead us. Most of those black leaders are fools getting paid by federal dollars one way or another. The youth don't respect them, it's hard for a group of kids with so many guns in circulation to respect anyone telling them to be peaceful when someone is trying to harm them.

We know there is tension because we live as black people in america. There is no need to stir up anything we know what it feels like to be told "you speak so well for a black person."

What people see is them and us going off what they don't know is this is real life, people are tired of being bothered and it's the good people that are really tired. College grads are the one's pushing this information out the most, they bring it to the attention of the internet. These leaders just jump on a situation people 13 to 35 have created so they can get media coverage off of some work the "streets" did. They know about it a week or two before the news I know about the stories waaaaaaay before that. Trayvon Martin was old when it became a big story.

Move away from looking at them listen to what the people are saying. That's part of the problem people are dismissive of the black struggle in america. People are saying this place is racist, the police are racist.........I am telling you LinkH if you get pulled over with me it's different when they get that law school business card. It's bad for people that don't have that links.
 
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ValleyGal

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When you look at most people in prison you typically see a lot of nonviolent drug offenders. However statistically there should be more whites in jail, does the stats of whites convicted for drug offenses vs black direct us to racial targeting? I certainly believe so.......when we look at the stats for the same exact crime a black man commits a white man will get less time. That is the legal precedent that has been set by our judicial system. Even when you look on the war on drugs you notice certain illogical factors. Even if we look at the names on resumes we find that people with names identified with the black culture are less likely to be hired.


You don't get the anger because it hasn't happened to you. That's what we are really mad about, it's not that it's happened to other people it's it happened to them. Anytime you see a black person talking negative about all police or in general accepting all negatives about a story it has nothing to do with the situation.......it's about them and their personal issues and their constantly bruised pride.

I agree, a lot of it is systemic racism, and this comes from the political history, which includes extensive white privilege that has affected both African-Americans as well as First Nations. The starting point for these two groups is nowhere near the starting point for most Caucasian Americans. The problem is rooted in historical politics and branches out to the close cousins of the legal and social systems.

I do not understand the whole American picture, so humour me for a bit. Has it been improving at all, comparatively (is it better now than it was 100 years ago)? How does the black community contribute to the racism against them? What would a black leader do at this point, and isn't that part of what Obama's agenda was supposed to be? How can a leader emerge to fight for social justice for black people? How can the Caucasian community support greater racial equality?
 
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Avniel

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I agree, a lot of it is systemic racism, and this comes from the political history, which includes extensive white privilege that has affected both African-Americans as well as First Nations. The starting point for these two groups is nowhere near the starting point for most Caucasian Americans. The problem is rooted in historical politics and branches out to the close cousins of the legal and social systems.

I do not understand the whole American picture, so humour me for a bit. Has it been improving at all, comparatively (is it better now than it was 100 years ago)? How does the black community contribute to the racism against them? What would a black leader do at this point, and isn't that part of what Obama's agenda was supposed to be? How can a leader emerge to fight for social justice for black people? How can the Caucasian community support greater racial equality?
I would say the culture of racism has not gotten much better. When you do become friends with whites americans(not all whites) you do notice that there are certain racist terms. A lot of black comedians make material out of this a lot because it's one of those realistic situations. You hear terms like "I don't see color" which in a sense is totally dismissive of ones personal history and cultural value. I will ignore your

Don't reply touch screen typing lol.
 
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LinkH

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Avniel,

I'd be upset if a policeman had no grounds to arrest me and arrested me in front of my kids, too. I can understand why you are frustrated, even if I haven't experienced what you have, and it is good to get your perspective on it.

I do think a course in schools on how to interact with the police, rolled into a civics course would be a good start. Memorizing certain facts about search and seizure, and learning to point it out in a not-overly-aggressive manner, along with learning to comply could be helpful for all citizens. I've seen some YouTube videos of people who were successful at having the cops stay within their legal limitations by pointing out their own rights. One white guy was walking down the street with a legal firearm. he asked, "Do you suspect me of a crime" and went through the legal rights of owning a firearm. Eventually, they backed off. One of the comments was that if the guy was black, he'd have been face down on the ground. But I saw another video where a black man with a firearm made a citizens arrest and called the police. The white policeman shook his hand or have him a high five when it was over. I thought that was an image more people in America needed to see.

As far as 'thug' culture goes, and the male pride you are talking about, a lot of white people don't realize how much of that is bluster. I had a friend who knew all kinds of martial arts and had some military-like training on top of his dad, who was a founding member of a special forces team, teaching him martial arts. He sold real estate and he said some black youths started threatening to tear down his sign. He knew it was male ego and bluster, and he walked up to them and said they weren't going to do that because them he'd have to come out there and kick their..... Then they said, "He's cool." and backed down. Most whites don't threaten each other like as much as people in African-American subcultures. If you put a white police officer raised in the suburbs in the inner city around youths like that, he might not deal with it as well as a black police officer who was raised there. And a man with a gun, who feels threatened, if he's got the power of the state behind him, can get rather aggressive. As far as solutions go, if there were high school aged programs directed at preparing black youth to become police officers and increase the numbers, I could see how that could help. No matter what the color of the policeman's skin, people in the community need to see the police as a part of the community, out there to protect them from people who doing crimes. More blacks getting involved in law (and eventually being put on the bench), like you are doing, can also help.
 
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