More people in the Netherlands giving up on faith: 58% are not religious

[Desk trauma]

Kinda sounds like what people do when they simply love to have something to argue about....
Religion is a condition of soul that thinks God "might exist." Its based upon superstiion.

Being spiritually alive is a transformed soul that has been made confident about God, because God has caused that confidence.

Religion is dead to the truth about experiencing regeneration.. though religious people may academically comprehend it.

It’s rebranding your product after it poisons its users without reformulating it.

 

[GenemZ]

It’s rebranding your product after it poisons its users without reformulating it.

In the mean while? What I stated remains true.





Diversion proofing.... (God is working on it)

 

[mindlight]

Residents of the Netherlands are continuing to abandon religion, according to research from Statistics Netherlands (CBS) that looked at the beliefs of people aged 15 and up. Non-religious people first emerged as the majority of the population in 2017, and since then they have continued to make up a larger proportion of society. Fewer than 13 percent of people said they regularly attend religious services.

The largest proportion of atheists and non-religious people was found in the 18-25 year age range, with 72.4 percent identifying as such.

The sharpest fall [in religious people] was observed among Roman Catholics. Some 27 percent identified as part of that religion in 2010, falling to 19.8 percent in 2020, and 18.3 percent in 2021. Although the proportion of Catholics has dropped significantly, it still represented the largest single religious group in the Netherlands.

The percentage of people calling themself Protestant fell from 18.0 percent down to 13.6 percent in 2021. During that time, the popularity of Islam also fell from 5.0 percent to 4.6 percent.

The drop in Islam is interesting, since many seem to clutch their pearls about being overrun, but I imagine that difference is around the same size as the limits of the accuracy of the poll.

The number of true Christians has probably never been the majority of the population in most Western countries. We are seeing a purging out of the dead branches. This probably means persecution is coming. In most of the world the church is growing and always has and its witness is often characterized by sacrifice. The generation gap is harder to map given young people's own resistance to the definition process and the so-called authorities that do the counting. Younger people often seem more likely to pray and be interested in spirituality for example but that does not necessarily connect them to a church. We are moving into an era where the true numbers are known only to God.

Younger people more likely to pray than older generations, survey finds | The Church of England

Young adults are more likely to pray than older generations, new research for the Church of England finds

www.churchofengland.org

 

[Cade_One]

I've met Fr. Roderick Vonhögen from the Netherlands and although, I find him entertaining, I think a Trad Priest would be taken more serous by non-Christians. Also, a guy in my weekly Bible study group has a son who is dating a girl from the Netherlands and she is an atheist, and so is everyone in her family.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't know that certain denominations' vitriolic rhetoric towards gay people explains all of the "exodus" so to speak. (if that's the certain kind of person you were alluding to)

It would obviously explain why a gay person who grew up in a Southern Baptist household would want to leave the religion, but looking at the overall results, there seems to be other catalysts at play.

For instance, the Lutheran Church, Episcopal Church, and Presbyterian Church all sanction gay marriage and have taken a more accepting stance on the matter. The Presbyterian church started allowing it in 2014 (and approved the ordination of gay people in 2011). Yet, that seemed to have little impact on the trajectory of people leaving their church.
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I referenced in my prior post the "social cost" for leaving certain religions (and denominations) and how that plays a role. I think that's a much larger factor.

With many religions, the more people defecting and becoming unaffiliated has something of an exponential effect. As it would seem like for every one or two people who do it, it makes another three for four people comfortable in "going public" with their status as a non-believer as well. It's almost always easier to be the 1,000th person to do something than the 1st or 2nd.

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The larger a particular community grows, the more "approachable" it becomes.


There are a few different aspects to how great that social cost is to an individual, one of which being, a person's other group affiliations. The more groups (that are perceived as "good groups" in their community) a person is in the majority in, the seemingly more comfortable they are with being in the minority on other things. Which could be a logical explanation for why Black Americans are only 1/5th as likely to publicly identify as atheist as White Americans. If a person's already in a group that may not be "the most liked" among a large number of people in their area, they're unlikely to do something they perceive as "giving them an additional reason to not like me", or doing something that could ruin one the few links to the "social fabric" of their community they do have.

You're misreading the data. Episcopalians and Presbyterians aren't defecting in any significant numbers to irreligion. Those churches are greying out, people are dying and not being replaced with new members. I have been attending a UCC church as a visitor for the past few months and it's significantly greyer than the general population, the average age of the congregation is probably about 62 and the pastor is 72. On the other hand, I can go to the local Lutheran church where I am a member, and there are quite a few more young people, but the average age is probably more like 50, and the pastor is 75. Most of the kids that leave are either busy with school and work, or they go to large megachurches that tend to be non-denominational. In fact I'd say work is a significant pressure for alot of younger people in being involved in religion.

It has little to do with stances on gay marriage and everything to do with changing demographics and the denominations' institutionalism and inside politics in the face of structural changes in society.

 

[FireDragon76]

From what I have seen, there are many young people that are not only quite willing to accept authoritarianism but eager for it as long as the authoritarians are their authoritarians. Forcing others to do and say what one wants is always going to be popular for a percentage of the population. In any event it is not really important how many people are followers of Christ. It is more important that the followers are committed followers and not just giving lip service to something that is expected by the culture. Christianity has always been counter cultural. Even in places where the vast majority of people claimed to be Christians.

It's not authoritarianism that younger people are seeking, they are seeking a sense of community that is responsive to their lived circumstances, and many churches don't provide that.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You're misreading the data. Episcopalians and Presbyterians aren't defecting in any significant numbers to irreligion. Those churches are greying out, people are dying and not being replaced with new members. I have been attending a UCC church as a visitor for the past few months and it's significantly greyer than the general population, the average age of the congregation is probably about 62 and the pastor is 72. On the other hand, I can go to the local Lutheran church where I am a member, and there are quite a few more young people, but the average age is probably more like 50, and the pastor is 75. Most of the kids that leave are either busy with school and work, or they go to large megachurches that tend to be non-denominational. In fact I'd say work is a significant pressure for alot of younger people in being involved in religion.

It has little to do with stances on gay marriage and everything to do with changing demographics and the denominations' institutionalism and inside politics in the face of structural changes in society.

I don't think it can all be attributed to age demographic changes. Otherwise, we'd see similar patterns across the board with regards to religious denominations.

The original claim I was responding to was suggesting that lack of inclusiveness was perhaps to blame for shrinking numbers in the churches. I was pointing out that ones that had been embracing more inclusion seemed to be losing numbers faster than some that aren't.

 

[grasping the after wind]

It's not authoritarianism that younger people are seeking, they are seeking a sense of community that is responsive to their lived circumstances, and many churches don't provide that.

We'll have it to disagree on that. In my experience, people, not just young people btw, often rationalize by convincing themselves that they want something that sounds noble and aspirational when what they really want, if one were being honest with oneself, is much less noble and much more self-serving.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think it can all be attributed to age demographic changes. Otherwise, we'd see similar patterns across the board with regards to religious denominations.

The original claim I was responding to was suggesting that lack of inclusiveness was perhaps to blame for shrinking numbers in the churches. I was pointing out that ones that had been embracing more inclusion seemed to be losing numbers faster than some that aren't.

No, there is no wave of defections from mainline Protestantism.


Evangelicals are substantially younger, and have been since the 1980's when the movement began to overtake mainline Protestants. Younger people tend to die off more slowly than older people.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's not authoritarianism that younger people are seeking, they are seeking a sense of community that is responsive to their lived circumstances, and many churches don't provide that.

Now that's something I can more or less agree with, FD.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No, there is no wave of defections from mainline Protestantism.


Evangelicals are substantially younger, and have been since the 1980's when the movement began to overtake mainline Protestants. Younger people tend to die off more slowly than older people.

Actually, if you look at the stats on current Atheists and religious switching (not talking about older people who are dying off)

It would appear that people are defecting from Protestantism faster than other religions.

13% of people raised protestant are leaving (with mainline protestants leaving faster than evangelicals)

Out of all Americans who identify as unaffiliated including atheists and agnostics, 41% were raised Protestant and 28% were raised Catholic according to the 2014 Pew Religious Landscape survey.