Messianic Judaism vs. Conservative Christianity

[yedida]

Just saw his icon. Although that's so arbitrary, since anyone can throw on an MJ icon and post here, even if they are 100% Christian. INTJ's views are just identical to what I see in the Fundamentalist/Conservative forums which is why I made this thread in the 1st place. I see no difference so it's very confusing.

Actually, someone with an MJ icon can not come in and teach against MJ beliefs. (I checked this out with the admins.) But for sure, someone with another definitely cannot do this.

 

[INTJ-F]

INTJ's views are just identical to what I see in the Fundamentalist/Conservative forums

That's hilarious because no "fundamental / conservative christian" keeps Shabbat and they ignore the dietary laws as well as the rest of Torah. Just because someone has SOME OF the same biblical beliefs does not make them the same.

Just because "fundamental / conservative christians" consider sodomy a sin does not make MJ's into "fundamental conservative christians" Torah says sodomy is a sin.

<staff edit>

All of a sudden they brand me as a "fundamental / conservative christian" because I quoted three bible verses against sodomy like sodomy isn't spoken against in Torah. <staff edit>

 

[yedida]

That's hilarious because no "fundamental / conservative christian" keeps Shabbat and they ignore the dietary laws as well as the rest of Torah. Just because someone has SOME OF the same biblical beliefs does not make them the same.

Just because "fundamental / conservative christians" consider sodomy a sin does not make MJ's into "fundamental conservative christians" Torah says sodomy is a sin.

<staff edit>

All of a sudden they brand me as a "fundamental / conservative christian" because I quoted three bible verses against sodomy like sodomy isn't spoken against in Torah. <staff edit>

Too bad we can't use calling us "conservative christians" as flaming. Though as far as I'm concerned that's what has been done. I'm no more mainstream christian than I am a Buddhist.
I agree with you, this has been a bad 24 hr period anyway. Think I'm gonna call it a day. Need to regroup from earlier....

 

[INTJ-F]

Too bad we can't use calling us "conservative christians" as flaming. Though as far as I'm concerned that's what has been done. I'm no more mainstream christian than I am a Buddhist.

I agree with you, this has been a bad 24 hr period anyway. Think I'm gonna call it a day. Need to regroup from earlier....

"conservative christian" is a little (I said LITTLE) closer to MJ than being a liberal "christian" who accepts practicing sodomites and wiccans into their churches and considers baby murder a "woman's right to choose"

I need to get some sleep too.

 

[yedida]

"conservative christian" is a little (I said LITTLE) closer to MJ than being a liberal "christian" who accepts practicing sodomites and wiccans into their churches and considers baby murder a "woman's right to choose"

I need to get some sleep too.

lailah tov

 

[INTJ-F]

Boker Tov

 

[INTJ-F]

 

[Jase]

Actually, someone with an MJ icon can not come in and teach against MJ beliefs. (I checked this out with the admins.) But for sure, someone with another definitely cannot do this.

And where does this forums statement of purpose say I must have conservative beliefs to be an MJ? Where does it say hating gays and being a young earth creationist are part of MJ theology?

Just asking. I started this thread to get honest consideration to the differences between the 2, because I see a a lot of similarities. But you and INTJ have treated me horribly (which is annoying considering she joined this board 2 weeks ago, I've been 8 years).

I've already been accused of not even being a believer and supporting murdered babies. Is that how MJs treat people?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Folks,

It's a violation of the forum rules to "promote" homosexuality. This means that we're not technically allowed to argue against the fundamentalist position that reads the Bible to say that gays are abominable and by their nature condemned to hell. Since we cannot rightly counter this position without violating the rules, don't you feel that this topic should be avoided?

Were we able to properly defend the liberal position without violating the rules and getting ourselves banned, we could have a great (though probably too heated) discussion about how people understand the verses that touch on homosexuality - and you'd be very intrigued by how these things appear within Judaism (without connection to modern English-speaking culture). Alas, we're not allowed to have this discussion, since what I would present would come across as "promoting" homosexuality.

Could we turn away from this topic and look for something that isn't so touchy? Let's not let this be a wedge issue on the forum in the same way that it was in the 2004 election period.

 

[yedida]

And where does this forums statement of purpose say I must have conservative beliefs to be an MJ? Where does it say hating gays and being a young earth creationist are part of MJ theology?

Just asking. I started this thread to get honest consideration to the differences between the 2, because I see a a lot of similarities. But you and INTJ have treated me horribly (which is annoying considering she joined this board 2 weeks ago, I've been 8 years).

I've already been accused of not even being a believer and supporting murdered babies. Is that how MJs treat people?

You had mentioned something before about anyone could choose an MJ icon and come in trolling. I was just telling you that is still not allowed. I think it was over the misunderstanding concerning cm. It had nothing to do with anyone in particular, I was just making a response.

 

[yedida]

Folks,

It's a violation of the forum rules to "promote" homosexuality. This means that we're not technically allowed to argue against the fundamentalist position that reads the Bible to say that gays are abominable and by their nature condemned to hell. Since we cannot rightly counter this position without violating the rules, don't you feel that this topic should be avoided?

Were we able to properly defend the liberal position without violating the rules and getting ourselves banned, we could have a great (though probably too heated) discussion about how people understand the verses that touch on homosexuality - and you'd be very intrigued by how these things appear within Judaism (without connection to modern English-speaking culture). Alas, we're not allowed to have this discussion, since what I would present would come across as "promoting" homosexuality.

Could we turn away from this topic and look for something that isn't so touchy? Let's not let this be a wedge issue on the forum in the same way that it was in the 2004 election period.

 

[Jase]

Folks,

It's a violation of the forum rules to "promote" homosexuality. This means that we're not technically allowed to argue against the fundamentalist position that reads the Bible to say that gays are abominable and by their nature condemned to hell. Since we cannot rightly counter this position without violating the rules, don't you feel that this topic should be avoided?

Were we able to properly defend the liberal position without violating the rules and getting ourselves banned, we could have a great (though probably too heated) discussion about how people understand the verses that touch on homosexuality - and you'd be very intrigued by how these things appear within Judaism (without connection to modern English-speaking culture). Alas, we're not allowed to have this discussion, since what I would present would come across as "promoting" homosexuality.

Could we turn away from this topic and look for something that isn't so touchy? Let's not let this be a wedge issue on the forum in the same way that it was in the 2004 election period.

Good point. I said I didn't want this to turn into a gay bashing thread, since we can't technically defend the issue (although, I think a little more latititude is given to congregation forums).

Either way, my point was I didn't realize one needed to hold those particular views to belong here. Perhaps I was wrong? There is no liberal Messianic division like most groups have, so I figured we all have to intermingle.

 

[Jase]

You had mentioned something before about anyone could choose an MJ icon and come in trolling. I was just telling you that is still not allowed. I think it was over the misunderstanding concerning cm. It had nothing to do with anyone in particular, I was just making a response.

I understand that and I agree. But I've been a Messianic since I started on this board 8 years ago. I didn't realize not being an ultra conservative in my views automatically disqualified me from this board. I saw nothing in the Statement of Purpose that one must accept Young Earth Creationism and the like to be an MJ.

 

[yedida]

I understand that and I agree. But I've been a Messianic since I started on this board 8 years ago. I didn't realize not being an ultra conservative in my views automatically disqualified me from this board. I saw nothing in the Statement of Purpose that one must accept Young Earth Creationism and the like to be an MJ.

I'm not the one who has said anything one way or the other. The only thing I contend that MJ believes is that Torah observance is a good thing if done with a right motive (to be a pleasing child to the Father).
Liberal, conservative, I have very little knowledge what beliefs these hold. I understand orthodox and fundalmental more easily.
I think we all had a bad evening last night. And I do offer apologies for that.

 

[visionary]

Good point. I said I didn't want this to turn into a gay bashing thread, since we can't technically defend the issue (although, I think a little more latititude is given to congregation forums).

Either way, my point was I didn't realize one needed to hold those particular views to belong here. Perhaps I was wrong? There is no liberal Messianic division like most groups have, so I figured we all have to intermingle.

The hebrew christian subsection has more leanings towards the less orthodox way of seeing things.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'd rather this thread not get closed down due to gay bashing though. However, it is confirming my suspicions that this forum seems to be more like Conservative Christianity than Judaism.

Concerning your stance on the subject of same sex attraction, I don't personally hold to thinking that its in any way appropriate to tolerate---even though I also don't go with what many Fundamentalists do in being what's known as "homophobic"/never allowing those struggling with such to be in churches....for they're still people, some of which are the nicest/kindest people I've met---and they all need Jesus. Being one who has dealt with that struggle myself as well as others, I don't trip when one says they're having battles with same-sex attraction----nor do I go the route of trying to act as if its the ULTIMATE sin against the Lord to indulge in it. For all sin is sin---and sins of racism or laziness and adultery are JUST as serious as those of homosexuality, IMHO.


One struggling with Homosexuality is not worse than one struggling with Coveting. For these are all sins and we do not need to find ways to justify them. Rather, we simply need to continue seeking God in repentance. I have had homosexual friends, and I have known homosexual believers who struggle to fight it. I do not look down upon them, because although I do not struggle with Homosexuality currently, I struggle with other areas in my life, as we all do, but in those areas where I struggle, I am wrong, I am not going to twist scripture so that I can feel good about my wrongs.

Many times I'm reminded of the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" whenever it comes to the subject of homsexuality. And to be clear, while the basic attitude of people who believe the Bible should be to love sinners while hating their sins, believers must accept the Bible's judgments on what is and what is not sin. Moreover, denouncing the sin is an apspect of loving the sinner since this is what enables him to repent, be forgiven and change. All of this can be done compassionately and effectively. The real tragedy is that few Christian Churches try to minister to those struggling with same-sex attraction/relationships. Those involved in homosexuality who have put their trust in Yeshua the Messiah, acknowedged their homosexual behavior and fantasies (Matthew 5:28) as sin, and become apart of a community of believers in the Messiah who love, for care and pray for them, have found the Holy Spirt gives them strength to flee their temptations, turn from their sin and live godly lives, either in heterosexuaL marriage or in celibacy---as Jesus noted in Matthew 19. Like former substance-abusers, many recognzie that they are weak in the area of their former sin but rely on God day by day to keep them free of it (II Corinthians 12:9-10).








I feel I must qualify that as one having dealt with homosexuality in my own life/doing ministry with others who've battled the same, it's always interesting how often I have to qualify things when I say I'm against it.

For as happened in my class once when someone asked if I was for it and I sharply disagreed, the point came up about doing so meaning one's scarred of homosexuals----though my response is that I'm actually scarred for them after seeing the consistent and full results that come from it. And to be clear, in what I'm saying, my being against homosexuality is not an indicator that those involved in same-sex relationships should not have legal rights to be married---just as all others are given rights to do so...

As my brother Lionel said on the issue once in an article he made entitled
Marriage, Gay Marriage, Federal Law and the Church « A Better Covenant
"

My opening statement is here: I will take Gay Marriage serious when we decide to take Straight Marriage seriously. If I am going to vote for a bill to be passed that defines marriage as “between one man and woman” then that bill most also contain “and divorce and remarriage is only allowed for martial (proven) unfaithfulness”. How about that for a Federal Marriage Amendment?

It is funny that we Christians always want to control what is right and wrong in our culture while simultaneously disobeying direct commands from Jesus himself. So we want to tell our Gay and Lesbian communities that it is wrong for them to marry one another when they are in love (I am not advocating this) but in turn we divorce whenever we feel we are “out of love”. So we are telling our Gay and Lesbian communities “do as I say and not as I do” and I think the last time I checked that is defined as hypocrisy! Who are we to pass judgment when we being the people of God don’t obey! Man, that makes me sick.


​

Some have often said that one can still feel that same-sex relationships are appropiate and still be called brothers when it comes to fellowshipping with others thinking the Torah says otherwise...in light of the claim that fellowship isn't based on full agreement on every moral, political, theological issue.

However, In all meekness/humility, some things to consider are that Unity must be based on the things within God's Word that're also already absolute....hence, why it can be a danger when all aspects of the Word are approached from a conversation standpoint---as some things are not clear and yet others are MORE than clear/beyond the realm of conversation in light of their effects on man (i.e. murder, sexual immorality, lust, racism, etc). It also goes into the issue of Polemics/Apolegetics---as there's indeed the scriptures we cannot escape when it comes to false teachings/doctrines and the standards for fellowship.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth." 27 So God created humankind in his own image; in the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them: God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air and every living creature that crawls on the earth."



​

God created us with the ability to carry out his instruction. We cannot obey God by multiplying if we do not copulate. We cannot multiply through same sex relations of any kind. One scripture that also comes to mind...

Genesis 38:9
However, Onan knew that the child would not count as his; so whenever he had intercourse with his brother's wife, he spilled the sperm on the ground, so as not to give his brother offspring. 10 What he did was evil from ADONAI's perspective, so he killed him too.


​

It's speculation in a sense to try and guess the mind of God fully in this matter..but IMHO, the act of spilling (wasting) the seed on the ground was certainly part of the issue as to why the Lord thought it wicked----. That said, one cannot ignore the fact that same sex intercourse has as it's result something very similar in that the seed is wasted.

As it conerns the issue of Onan, God was clear in the Law why Onan was wrong. For in Genesis 38:8-10, the law about marrying widows in the family was something in view---also expressed in Deuteronomy 25:5-10. Its purpose was to ensure that a childless widow would have a son who would recieve her late husband's inheritance and who, in turn, would care for her. Because Judah's son (Tamar's husband) had no children, there was no family line through which the inheritance and the blessing of the covenant could continue. God killed Onan because he refused to fulfill his obligation to his brother and to Tamar.....enjoying the pleasures/"kick" of a sexual relationship while not wanting the function behind it---and he probably was killed for greed as well since the children would not be his and thus he could get no benefits from having children.

Its indeed an issue of wasted seed.....and more of an illustration of how seriously God takes procreation....




"Same-Sex" christians may try to make the case that it's no different than a barren women but I believe that the Bible is clear that a woman's womb can be opened (made operational) but a man....

The generation that believes that they can be a follower of Messiah and a homosexual has the dispensational (and other demonic, IMHO) doctrine to thank. They understand that you can't say on the one hand it's okay to eat whatever you like, reject Shabbat and then try to tell them that you have to keep other aspects of the "law". They're actually living out the doctrine that has been fed them. Now we see the result of feeding the beast



People often say things like "Well, Jesus never mentioned anything about same-sex relationships being wrong so it must be good...and Paul doesn't need to be heard on the issue!!!!" (As is often said by those advocating "Gay Christian Theology")---and yet they skip over what Jesus already said about marriage and supporting what was already stated in the Mosaic Law (which spoke on homosexuality a forbidden, including Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 ).

People forget that the gospels are not comprehensive and some of the Bible's most important teachings – the explanation of spiritual gifts, the Priesthood of Christ, the doctrine of man's old and new nature – appear in other books of the Bible....and many ignore how the gospels do not claim to be a complete account of Jesus' life or teachings.


For sections of Jesus' life are not discussed in the gospels and we cannot be certain that Jesus never spoke about homosexual behavior...........and given that Scripture teaches that Jesus kept all the Law and affirmed all that the Law and the Prophets taught (Matt. 5:17-19), undoubtedly, this would have included the affirmation of committed, monogamous male-female marriage and an unwavering condemnation of homosexual behavior.


Given that all first century orthodox Jews would have held to this standard, the question of affirming homosexuality would not have been open to discussion in Jesus' day.

For those trying to focus solely on discrediting Paul when he forcefully spoke out on the issue ( Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 ) and saying "We just can't be sure what scriptures can be trusted, except what Jesus stood for", they ignore the larger issue of where Jesus already referred to OT Scripture when he referred to heterosexuality as a standard. For He specifically described God's created intent for human sexuality:

"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Matt. 19: 1-8; Mk. 10:6-9).
​

That's but one example....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Bible not written in English. For example, homosexual was not added to Corinthians until 1958 A.D. For the entire Reformation, it condemned masturbators. Philo, Paul's contemporary, said it referred to Shrine Prostitutes, and confirmed that it's based on Mosaic Law which also was condemning Shrine prostitutes.

Leviticus is about temple prostitutes having sex during pagan fertility rituals to the god Molech.

Romans 1 is a reference to Plato regarding unbridled passion. Paul was condemning pederasty and prostitution common among the Romans and Greeks as it was obscuring the truth of God. Paul's audience was heterosexual (hence the "exchanged" comment).

I've done so much research on these verses it's not even funny. They do not mean what you think they mean, and I'm frankly so tired of having to repeat myself hundreds of times to people who quote modern day English translations out of context and culture to demonize an entire minority. This is a perfect example of why I'm learning to despise Christianity.

If interested, there are some very good resources on the subject, concerning the issue of Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20 and how others often try to make it out as if it was only condeming rape of those in same-sex relationships rather than the very act of same-sex relationships.

For more info, one can go online/investigate under the following title:

• "Homosexuality in the Buff | Beth HaDerech; Messianic Jewish Congregation, Toronto, Canada..." ( )

• "Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality | Beth HaDerech; Messianic Jewish Congregation, Toronto, Canada..." ( )

As said best in one of their articles (for a brief excerpt):

Due to the Fall of Mankind and sin entering the world it opened the door for physical degenerations, mutations, and physical and medical anomalies in the human genome as well as chemical imbalances and deficiencies in the brain. However, it&#8217;s not God&#8217;s fault, it&#8217;s ours. By our own free will to choose to sin, we made way for sin and corruption to enter and infest the world and thus we are living with the aftermath and repercussions. We are the ones who sinned and transgressed God&#8217;s commands and mandates and got ourselves into this mess. We are the one who opened Pandora&#8217;s Box and let the cat out of the bag. God was the one who was trying to protect us from all of this. So, because we live in an imperfect and sinful world some people are born with defects, cleft pallets and such, some are even born hermaphrodite, but surgery can take care of both of those conditions.

Spiritually, because of the Fall we are predisposed to sin, but we have the free will whether to give into it or not. It is now scientifically proven by certain genetic markers that some people are born predisposed to alcoholism, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, substance abuse, and yes, even homosexuality, violence and murder. So does this mean we let people self destruct with alcohol and drugs? Does that mean we allow people to be come like the HBO serial killer Dexter because he can help but kill and besides, he only kills bad guys, people that &#8220;deserve&#8221; to die!? Heck no! If substance abuse and murder is a sin and we will do whatever we can to save people from it, why not homosexuality? I clearly point out in my article &#8220;Homosexuality in the Buff&#8221; that homosexuality in God&#8217;s eyes is a divinely prohibited and an abominable sin. So in short God didn&#8217;t make you this way but allowed degeneration and sin to progress. We made the bed and we have to lie in it. But one day Moshiach will come and correct and restore all things and make things as they were before the Fall.

If substance abuse and murder is a sin and we will do whatever we can to save people from it, why not homosexuality? Because it is a, &#8220;lifestyle choice?&#8221; Or because someone claims they were born that way? Look, doing drugs is a lifestyle choice as well as an addiction but we try and help people who are addicted; that is if they want help. Before a sin becomes an addiction it begins as a choice (Yaacov -- James 1:15). Granted, a choice perhaps due to influence whether cultural or genetically, but a controllable personal choice nonetheless. Corrupted genetics may have something to do with ones sexual preferences but does that excuse one from giving into, adopting, advocating, engaging in and living such a lifestyle? I think not. A test was done where a heroine addict&#8217;s brain was scanned as well as a guy who at the time was looking at inappropriate contentography and the brain scans side by side were virtually identical. This shows that sex and even sexual preferences can become addictions.

Just as there is rehab for drug and alcohol abusers there is help for those caught in inappropriate contentography and homosexuality. Do we force them to get help? No, you can lead a camel to water but you can not make him drink. Just as you cannot force a serial killer to get help, or a substance abuser to enter rehab, you cannot force a homosexual to get the help they need. If the person does not see the need for help and is forced to get help for themselves, no matter what the program might be for recovery, it will not work. Just as sin is a choice of ones free will, so is recovery.

Look, we all have our vices, for some it&#8217;s lying, stealing, anger, heterosexual inappropriate contentography and alcoholism; and for some it just happens to be homosexuality. Yes, I know for those who have and are fighting homosexual tendencies, for those who are getting out of that lifestyle and wanting to walk by the Torah, it is not easy and a challenge to say the least. It is not to different from the path of a recovering drug addict or alcoholic. It&#8217;s all about the moment to moment, the day to day battle. And just because you struggle from time to time or even on a daily basis it does not mean it is an impossible fight or one that you are alone in.

​

Other things one could look up can be found if choosing to go online/investigate an article entitled the following:

• "Homosexuality in the Buff -- Rabbi Yehudah ben Shomeyr" ( )

• "JONAH, Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality" ( )

• "JONAH: HELP FOR JEWISH HOMOSEXUALS CONSISTENT WITH TORAH PRINCIPLES" ( c)

• "Judaism's Sexual Revolution: Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality"

Some of this I tried to discuss more in-depth in a thread I made entitled Messianc Judaism and Homosexuality: Does the Torah Condone Same Sex relationships? ----and I do hope your thread won't be closed due to the homosexual issue, as it didn't seem to be planned...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to cause divisiveness. But there is no claim as to what an MJs beliefs must be. I've been a Messianic Jew for 13 years. I should be just as welcome here as anyone else, but I also disagree with the Conservative Christian views that seem to dominate this forum.

I said I didn't want this to turn into a gay bashing thread, since we can't technically defend the issue (although, I think a little more latititude is given to congregation forums).

Either way, my point was I didn't realize one needed to hold those particular views to belong here. Perhaps I was wrong? There is no liberal Messianic division like most groups have, so I figured we all have to intermingle.

There's a wide spectrum of Messianic Thought and many don't realize how much of a Mosaic it really is when studying the differing views. In example, many times, others assume that anything of grace being superior to Mosaic code (when that comes up) is akin to one saying that they're for Antinomian thought--and yet because one side has already deemed a phrase or word to only mean one thing, people can speak past each other. The Messianc Jews over at a ministry known as "The Rosh Pina Project" spoke in-depth on this a number of times when it came to discussing the Torah...as seen when they were discussing Antinomian Theology Within The TOM-J Movement and A Messianic Jewish Levite on the New ... - The Rosh Pina Project


Again, Messianic Judaism is truly a Mosaic. Most of the time, though, one specific strain of Messianic thought is supported and considered to be the only one reflective of all....and many times, camps with differing variations don't have interaction with others so they end up surprised when seeing things they never saw supported in their own camps. What's interesting is that many times, people screaming about being "attacked" in their beliefs have simply experienced people disagreeing with them---and at one time, when the forum make-up didn't have their views as the dominant one expressed on the forum, it would have been them that would be considered as "attacking" what Messianic Judaism is about. This is no different than if one goes to a school where its composed of Orthodox Jews and Reformed Jews.....and both have difficulty interacting. At one point, if attending the school in the 70's, it may've been the Orthodox who were in the majority and thus interpreted what Judaism was----therefore leading to their labeling other Reformed Jews as "attacking" them when the Reform don't line up with their camp. Conversely, for one who attended the school in that era, they may end up seeing how it is in the 90's with a new generation......and discover that things have flipped to where new people of the Reformed side have become a majority and now do the SAME THINGS that the Orthodox did.

What makes it interesting is that the Reformed Generation denoucing others in disagreement may have no memory of when they were in the minority---and thus, they may think all Orthodox rising up are trying to do something new. Because they don't understand the concept of "ebb and flow", things can get messy...and the same dynamics can occer here.Others have had the same experiences you noted of yourself.....and had you come at differing points of interaction on the boards during the many years its been in existence, you may've found numerous others who would be siding with you/defending your thoughts. If going through the Messianic archives, you may find many threads/postings echoing the things you noted.....and showing the evolution of thought.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

And what exactly are MJ beliefs that CM is attacking? You've been here 2 weeks. He's been here 6 years. Why is your view more valid than his? (Especially considering his views seem to be more in line with MJ beliefs).

CM actually shared elsewhere how he is Messianic Jewish...and yet, due to the lack of Messianic Synagouges in his area, he chooses to attend an Anglican Church. One can go here to #31 for more...and to be clear, its not the first time that something like that has occurred, as there are many Jewish believers in Messiah who go to differing churches outside of Messianic Jewish synagouges...and there's nothing "Non Messianic" about it at all. Many have done that, even as it concerns those who are Hebrew Catholics or Messianic Jews going to Liturgical churches....

 

[ChavaK]

edited to comply with forum rules