Marital customs dont make the marraige.

[HelpyHelperton]

Ceremonies, preachers, wedding rings, licenses, wedding dresses, bridemaids, best men, flower girls, lots of guests, signatures of witnesses, the list could go on for a bit.

In my opinion these do not join a man and woman before God.

There are biblical marriages where not a single one of these are present.
These are customs that we are used to here in the US, but in other countries things are done differently.

What if I want none of that and run down to the justice of the peace?
If I vow myself to her there, am I married before God?

What if we have no preacher? Even a catholic site I went to had the procedure for a wedding without a priest.
Does the preacherman actaully join the two into one ?

Rings...what if I cant afford rings or what about those who dont believe in them? Are they married if they vow themselves together before God?

And licenses. Many countries dont license and some states still dont require them. So which states are right, those that have them or those that dont?
Does God reject the covenant made between a man and woman until they have paid ceasers dues and turned thier union over to him? (which sounds extreme, but look into what happens in a state marriage, the state IS a third party in your union with your spouse)

 

[hollymarie1122]

id have to say all of your questions can be answered with God, he says we have to follow mans law to, so if the state you reside in says you have to have a license signed by a judge or priest, then you do if you live in a country that dosen't make that a HAVE to then you don't have to. The rings and all that, while not necessary it depends on the importance from person to person. I felt more special with it (the dress and everything) but was once married with out it as well and I was still married! God Bless you and your want to know!

 

[HelpyHelperton]

id have to say all of your questions can be answered with God, he says we have to follow mans law to, so if the state you reside in says you have to have a license signed by a judge or priest, then you do if you live in a country that dosen't make that a HAVE to then you don't have to. The rings and all that, while not necessary it depends on the importance from person to person. I felt more special with it (the dress and everything) but was once married with out it as well and I was still married! God Bless you and your want to know!

it does seem there is a lot of diversity of opinion here on marriage licenses.

We will have to agree to disagee on the licensing and such

 

[HelpyHelperton]

Something else comes to mind. a question.

I have always believed in marriage licensing as I was raised that way.
a while ago I was studying vows, oaths, covenants and such and stumbled into marraiges and the issue of betrothal and the like.

after studying for a while I concluded that license or no, a promise to marry before God is just that.

He doesnt let you off the hook because the customs of our country says its ok to just toss the promise aside and move onto the next just because you didnt have a piece of paper from ceasar.

What this has done is even further cemented the idea that a covenant, vow, oath or promise before the Lord is binding whether ceaser has been informed of it or not.


Now my question.

Those of you who believe that a license is required....have you actaully ever studied the whole OT and NT on the matter ?
Honestly?
Studied it out completely?
honestly?

Or do you base this decision solely on a little passage that says somethig to the extent of ''obey the laws of the land" ?

just interested.

My guess is that those who believe that God requires a license to accept a marital vow are probably more apt to have not really studied it as much as those who dont believe He requires it and know why they dont.


and also....



"I take you _____ to be my covenant wife.
I promise before God Almighty to love and honor you,
and to keep you and protect you,
In sickness and in health,
For better or worse,
for richer or poorer.
I vow before God almighty to be faithful to you and cherish you until death to us part"


Lets say I make that oath to her before God.
Then she makes her same oath to me.

Does anyone actaully believe that God is looking the other way saying ''nope, cant hear ya'' when we make this covenant to each other if we dont have a license in hand?


.

 

[HelpyHelperton]

We were married by a justice of the peace (they are called Marriage Commissioners here actually, similar thing though) in a park with only 12 people in attendance. I'm no less married than the next person as far as I'm concerned.

I agree.
If you promised to be his wife, then you are married....preacher not required.

For me the license is more about declaring before everyone that you are married rather than a biblical thing. Its declaring to the province, the country, "We are married, here it is under our law that we are husband and wife, for the rest of our lives, and no one can take this away from us and no one can ever doubt us".

I agree .

It doesn't exactly scream committment.

Its sad to say that a persons word alone doesnt mean as much as it used to.

People promise to marry all the time these days then back out, so why should we hold men and women to actaully honor their words without getting it in writing ?

To me, a promise to marry is seen by God and expected to be upheld.
God doesnt change to our traditions, He expects that we come to His way of doing things.

His way shows that even only promised to marry, a person was bound to the other.

Its a really sad state of affairs when even christians must demand that a godless government rule over their union that God alone has joined.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

This sounds like a way to rationalize shacking up.

 

[jd032700]

This soulds like a way to rationalize shacking up.

My thoughts exactly!!

There have been tons of these threads lately about what makes a marriage a marriage. I'll give my two cents for what it's worth. While I do believe that a vow before God is binding whether in front of a preacher or a JP or witnesses or whatever, I don't think that it is the best idea to just vow to each other. I would never have "married" my husband like this. There is no legal marriage, no protection for the spouses, no declaring to the world that you are married for the rest of your life.

I don't understand what the big deal is. I don't think you need a huge wedding, and rings, and all the trimmings, but if you really love your spouse why not go before a minister or a JP and make your marriage legal? I have a "worthless piece of paper" that says to the world, whether Christian or Muslim or Jew or athiest that I am bound to my husband. A marriage just in front of God is all fine and dandy, but it doesn't do you a lick of good living in our world today.

I agree with Mr. Cheese, too. It seems like an elaborate excuse to sleep with and live with someone without having done everything you need to do first. It would be really easy to walk away from that relationship without looking back. AND, it looks to the world like you are living together without marriage. A Christian is supposed to flee from the very appearance of sin. I don't think your non-Christian friends are going to think that you are "in the world, but not of the world" if you're living with your girlfriend just like they are.

 

[christalee4]

Ceremonies, preachers, wedding rings, licenses, wedding dresses, bridemaids, best men, flower girls, lots of guests, signatures of witnesses, the list could go on for a bit.

In my opinion these do not join a man and woman before God.

There are biblical marriages where not a single one of these are present.
These are customs that we are used to here in the US, but in other countries things are done differently.

What if I want none of that and run down to the justice of the peace?
If I vow myself to her there, am I married before God?

What if we have no preacher? Even a catholic site I went to had the procedure for a wedding without a priest.
Does the preacherman actaully join the two into one ?

Rings...what if I cant afford rings or what about those who dont believe in them? Are they married if they vow themselves together before God?

And licenses. Many countries dont license and some states still dont require them. So which states are right, those that have them or those that dont?
Does God reject the covenant made between a man and woman until they have paid ceasers dues and turned thier union over to him? (which sounds extreme, but look into what happens in a state marriage, the state IS a third party in your union with your spouse)

I think at least a man and woman should get a marriage license from the state. But the main point of your thread, which I agree with, is the fact that marriage ceremonies are so commercialized and concerned with material goods these days. I read about the runaway bride and how much her wedding, registry and all that ridiculous, expensive stuff cost her and the groom's families. It puts undue stress on the families, as well as the bride and groom. It's like they have to showcase their wealth, and then in turn, put pressure on the guest to pony up the money for the registry items. How many sets of dishes and place settings does one need to be happy in a marriage?

Are you planning on getting married? I don't blame you for wanting to make it simple. Unfortunately, there is a major factor involved called the parents, and other family members and relatives. Often, THEY want all the bells and whistles, so that they can have a fine memory of the grandeur of the wedding.

 

[I'ddie4him]

My thoughts exactly!!

There have been tons of these threads lately about what makes a marriage a marriage. I'll give my two cents for what it's worth. While I do believe that a vow before God is binding whether in front of a preacher or a JP or witnesses or whatever, I don't think that it is the best idea to just vow to each other. I would never have "married" my husband like this. There is no legal marriage, no protection for the spouses, no declaring to the world that you are married for the rest of your life.

I don't understand what the big deal is. I don't think you need a huge wedding, and rings, and all the trimmings, but if you really love your spouse why not go before a minister or a JP and make your marriage legal? I have a "worthless piece of paper" that says to the world, whether Christian or Muslim or Jew or athiest that I am bound to my husband. A marriage just in front of God is all fine and dandy, but it doesn't do you a lick of good living in our world today.

I agree with Mr. Cheese, too. It seems like an elaborate excuse to sleep with and live with someone without having done everything you need to do first. It would be really easy to walk away from that relationship without looking back. AND, it looks to the world like you are living together without marriage. A Christian is supposed to flee from the very appearance of sin. I don't think your non-Christian friends are going to think that you are "in the world, but not of the world" if your living with your girlfriend just like they are.

Very well said,

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Marriage is a responsibility and a committment.
Once upon a time maybe a man's word meant something.
But now if you want to be married the authorities want something in writing, with witnesses, so you can't be a creep and back out whenever you want to.
Why is this?
Because we're not so high and mighty on God's law over man's law after all. In reality we have chosed to fail our responsibilities in marriage committments to the point that it is necessary to have soemone else come in and hold our hands to make sure we mean what we say.
Now the court makes sure that it costs us something should we run away from the marriage.

So justifying shacking up as upholding some form of godliness over and above the civil authority is just another way of saying "I want to keep the back door open just in case."
The Pharisees did the same things.

The government takes over parts of our lives when we show that we are incapable of governing ourselves. So, in the end, it all comes back to us.

 

[I'ddie4him]

Marriage is a responsibility and a committment.
Once upon a time maybe a man's word meant something.
But now if you want to be married the authorities want something in writing, with witnesses, so you can't be a creep and back out whenever you want to.
Why is this?
Because we're not so high and mighty on God's law over man's law after all. In reality we have chosed to fail our responsibilities in marriage committments to the point that it is necessary to have soemone else come in and hold our hands to make sure we mean what we say.
Now the court makes sure that it costs us something should we run away from the marriage.

So justifying shacking up as upholding some form of godliness over and above the civil authority is just another way of saying "I want to keep the back door open just in case."
The Pharisees did the same things.

The government takes over parts of our lives when we show that we are incapable of governing ourselves. So, in the end, it all comes back to us.

YAY Cheese............I guess this is the Governments way of holding us accountable for making this kind of commitment ?? Something some people are incapable of doing themselves ??

 

[Andry]

hh,

Perhaps we don't need all the bells and whistles and other frivolities.....but we're not all cutural-less, sanitized, or utilitarians.

It would be nice if we could make it memorable, based on whatever cultural, societal, familial traditions we recognize or identify with. One of the many little things I remember most about my ceremony was the fragance of my wife's flower boquet....she didn't need a bunch of flowers, true, but it's a memory I will keep forever.

 

[Zoomer]

Marriage is a responsibility and a committment.
Once upon a time maybe a man's word meant something.
But now if you want to be married the authorities want something in writing, with witnesses, so you can't be a creep and back out whenever you want to.
Why is this?
Because we're not so high and mighty on God's law over man's law after all. In reality we have chosed to fail our responsibilities in marriage committments to the point that it is necessary to have soemone else come in and hold our hands to make sure we mean what we say.
Now the court makes sure that it costs us something should we run away from the marriage.

So justifying shacking up as upholding some form of godliness over and above the civil authority is just another way of saying "I want to keep the back door open just in case."
The Pharisees did the same things.

The government takes over parts of our lives when we show that we are incapable of governing ourselves. So, in the end, it all comes back to us.

Great post!!

 

[EmSchmem]

you know, I haven't researched it tons but it seems to me that no one in the bible really just said, hey look we're married now. The fact that there were dowries and asking for hands in marriage (which seems to me to be more than cerimonial) seems to signify some contract and I am pretty sure that the bible mentions marriage as a contract not just something that people decide to do. Also I saw on one of these threads something to the effect of common law marriages being the same or adequate or something. However in most states to be considered a common law marriage a couple has to be living together UN married for a period of time.
My husband and I had little help paying for our wedding. We didn't have a traditional reception as many would see it. Friends in our bible study made different desserts and the buildeing we had was NOT pretty. We had very little dancing and my dress only cost $148 with delivery. A friend did the flower arranging and every single person who has ever seen pictures has given us major copliments. Our ceremony was short and simple. We stood before God, our friends, and yes our state and vowed to love (verb not emotion) and honor each other until we parted for Heaven.
It actually is offensive to me that people say that nothing other than a "hey we're married now" is needed. There may not be a ceremonial list of things (we have very inexpensive bands btw) or a certain order of things, but all these excuses just strike me as a cop out. And if that relationship ends? Will those people just say they were never married anyway? What keeps these people in their "marriage"

 

[Grishnak]

This sounds like a way to rationalize shacking up.

I guess I can assume that some must have a license poking them in the ribs to make sure they do what they are supposed to in their marriages, since they seem so adamant that a man wont do his duty without one.

 

[Grishnak]

I agree with Mr. Cheese, too. It seems like an elaborate excuse to sleep with and live with someone without having done everything you need to do first.

really?

just so you know, my betrothed wife (since we have not consumated) has a terrible fear of sex and it will most likely be years before we consumate our union.
I have known about this fear from the start, I accept it and love her and would become a eunuch if I had to for her to be with her.

so NO, its not always about sex.

This is about GODS union between a man and his wife, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Grishnak]

It actually is offensive to me that people say that nothing other than a "hey we're married now" is needed

I agree.
And these types, and the types that dont honor their covenant ruin things for those of us who want govt OUT of christian marriages.

Moving in together and having sex doesnt make a union before God.

 

[revrobor]

id have to say all of your questions can be answered with God, he says we have to follow mans law to, so if the state you reside in says you have to have a license signed by a judge or priest, then you do...... QUOTE]

No state in the U.S. requires a couple to get a marriage license UNLESS they want to be recognized as married by the state and take advantage of the legal protections that offers. So when a couple chooses to live in a Biblical marriage only they ARE NOT violating man's law.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think that there is room for individual conscience on these issues. One thing is clear. A marriage commitment is meant to be for life between one man and one woman.

 

[Whitestone]

Hi there Helpyhelper,

I have a question, why are you adverse to some of the ceremonies and like for marriage. I can understand not buying into the commercialization of the wedding and that has seemed to become more important than the marriage itself.

For me I wouldn't want any loopholes or discrepencies to the validity of my marriage, when my wife said I do (she never actually did the pastor neglected to ask her just pronounced married after a short sermon) I wanted to show her off to everyone, "this is my wife", "here is my better half", "have I had a chance to introduce you to my wife", and other things I took had pride in having the woman God made for me by my side and wanted everyone else to know my joy.

Sorry I rambled, but I hope I conveyed my thought.