Mainline Protestant churches are dying

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
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Hmm. In my experience the difficulty is not with younger folk - who know all too well their need for something more, and in many cases are actively seeking it - but with older folk who are comfortable and threatened by change. The attitude is all too commonly, "Give me 'the way we've always done things,' give me hymns I already know, give me worship experiences that don't challenge me, and don't push me to do anything to connect with the community beyond our church doors."

Now that's by no means everyone. But if you had to ask me, in leading a congregation, where I struggled with the attitudes in the congregation, it would be much more with what I just described, than anything in the younger folk.
 
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FireDragon76

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Hmm. In my experience the difficulty is not with younger folk - who know all too well their need for something more, and in many cases are actively seeking it - but with older folk who are comfortable and threatened by change. The attitude is all too commonly, "Give me 'the way we've always done things,' give me hymns I already know, give me worship experiences that don't challenge me, and don't push me to do anything to connect with the community beyond our church doors."

Now that's by no means everyone. But if you had to ask me, in leading a congregation, where I struggled with the attitudes in the congregation, it would be much more with what I just described, than anything in the younger folk.

Yes, that's definitely a factor too. Though in my experience a denomination like the United Church of Christ sees itself as being very responsive, I think this occurs more from a place of cultural echo chamber than genuine engagement with the lives of younger people in general.

There are a fair number of younger people that are interested in things like mysticism and spirituality, but I don't think mainline churches are positioning themselves to take advantage of that. Older generations want the typical practical Protestant religion they were raised with.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm reminded of Dr. King's statement that if the Church doesn't recapture its prophetic zeal, it becomes an irrelevant social club without spiritual or moral authority. The context of King's words here is that the Church can neither be master nor servant of the state; but must be a guide and critic of the state.

To be critic and guide cannot seek to be master of the state; as though the Church should be in charge over the state; and neither can it mean being an instrument, acting in a servile way, to the state. By "state" we can also talk about prevailing political attitudes, and the ever-shifting tides of political allegiances.

When the state is most favorable toward the Church, that is arguably the most important time for the Church to be critical of the state.
The Church must never become a mere cultural component of the status quo.
The Church must never forsake her allegiance to Christ above all else; and therefore can never relinquish the cross in favor of something else.

The Church, if it looks like the world, makes itself irrelevant.

And it doesn't matter if "the world" in this case is "conservative" or "liberal"; the comforts of power and the enjoyment of glory exist regardless of political divisions. Because human beings, even when we believe our cause just and good, are still sinners. The devil doesn't take a day off; my flesh doesn't stop being rotten. I must at every moment of life be bothered by the discomfort of God's commandments and confront my own in-built wrongness; and at the same time be comforted by the Good News of God's grace, love, and forgiveness through the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Moralistic sermons, sermons without power, can be found just about anywhere. I remember some in my old very NOT mainline Pentecostal church; and I've encountered them since becoming Lutheran, in both the ELCA and AALC. Granted I've heard much fewer of these in a Lutheran context. They're easy sermons, sermons that are probably be the least offensive, the least challenging, and can leave us all feeling like we're all basically decent people and that we just need to be happy comfortable and be basically decent. And while "be decent" probably isn't a terrible message, it's not going to do much to seriously challenge us, or disrupt our cozy self-image of ourselves, or provoke us to get down on our knees in repentance; nor comfort us with the Gospel. It's not going to be a proclamation of hope in an increasingly hope-starved world; and it's not going to be a proclamation of justice, neither of the justice we have before God through faith in Christ nor the justice to which we are called in living outwardly toward our neighbors and communities and toward the least of these in our midst.

Sometimes I need to be hit over the head a couple times, figuratively, with the word: Wake up, you've gotten complacent. Reminded that sometimes, yeah, I am just phoning in my confession--and while God's grace is abundant, real grace means real sin. I'm a real sinner, I need real mercy, I need real confession. And that also means I need to be reminded of the comfort I can only find in God's word, the comfort of grace, the comfort of Christ and the love of God--I'm forgiven. And now I need to forgive others, I need to turn the other cheek, I need to seek first God's kingdom, I need to love my neighbor, and serve the least of these. I need to deny myself and take up my cross--day in and day out.

I shouldn't be comfortable, rather I must understand that discipleship is not easy. Following Jesus is not "be nice and be happy" but "come and die".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Pioneer3mm

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When the state is most favorable toward the Church, that is arguably the most important time for the Church to be critical of the state.
The Church must never become a mere cultural component of the status quo.
Good point.
---
There are examples/cases..in Christian history.
 
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FireDragon76

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I'm reminded of Dr. King's statement that if the Church doesn't recapture its prophetic zeal, it becomes an irrelevant social club without spiritual or moral authority. The context of King's words here is that the Church can neither be master nor servant of the state; but must be a guide and critic of the state.

To be critic and guide cannot seek to be master of the state; as though the Church should be in charge over the state; and neither can it mean being an instrument, acting in a servile way, to the state. By "state" we can also talk about prevailing political attitudes, and the ever-shifting tides of political allegiances.

When the state is most favorable toward the Church, that is arguably the most important time for the Church to be critical of the state.
The Church must never become a mere cultural component of the status quo.
The Church must never forsake her allegiance to Christ above all else; and therefore can never relinquish the cross in favor of something else.

The Church, if it looks like the world, makes itself irrelevant.

And it doesn't matter if "the world" in this case is "conservative" or "liberal"; the comforts of power and the enjoyment of glory exist regardless of political divisions. Because human beings, even when we believe our cause just and good, are still sinners. The devil doesn't take a day off; my flesh doesn't stop being rotten. I must at every moment of life be bothered by the discomfort of God's commandments and confront my own in-built wrongness; and at the same time be comforted by the Good News of God's grace, love, and forgiveness through the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Moralistic sermons, sermons without power, can be found just about anywhere. I remember some in my old very NOT mainline Pentecostal church; and I've encountered them since becoming Lutheran, in both the ELCA and AALC. Granted I've heard much fewer of these in a Lutheran context. They're easy sermons, sermons that are probably be the least offensive, the least challenging, and can leave us all feeling like we're all basically decent people and that we just need to be happy comfortable and be basically decent. And while "be decent" probably isn't a terrible message, it's not going to do much to seriously challenge us, or disrupt our cozy self-image of ourselves, or provoke us to get down on our knees in repentance; nor comfort us with the Gospel. It's not going to be a proclamation of hope in an increasingly hope-starved world; and it's not going to be a proclamation of justice, neither of the justice we have before God through faith in Christ nor the justice to which we are called in living outwardly toward our neighbors and communities and toward the least of these in our midst.

Sometimes I need to be hit over the head a couple times, figuratively, with the word: Wake up, you've gotten complacent. Reminded that sometimes, yeah, I am just phoning in my confession--and while God's grace is abundant, real grace means real sin. I'm a real sinner, I need real mercy, I need real confession. And that also means I need to be reminded of the comfort I can only find in God's word, the comfort of grace, the comfort of Christ and the love of God--I'm forgiven. And now I need to forgive others, I need to turn the other cheek, I need to seek first God's kingdom, I need to love my neighbor, and serve the least of these. I need to deny myself and take up my cross--day in and day out.

I shouldn't be comfortable, rather I must understand that discipleship is not easy. Following Jesus is not "be nice and be happy" but "come and die".

-CryptoLutheran

Your thoughts help me put things in context, though perhaps not in a way you intended.

Our pastor has a very nurturing spirit and alot of compassion for the downtrodden (and animals, which is always a sign of a good character in my book), and doesn't like to clobber people. Given the context we find ourselves in, as one of the few openly gay accepting churches in Orlando, that's probably fitting with our sense of mission to some extent: to be an alternative to culturally conservative, moralistic religion.

I suspect that the younger generation just has grown cold and has no sense of enduring, transcendent values, or even why those would be an important thing to seek out in the first place (there's certainly far less social pressure to seek out those things and have them be an important touchstone in your life). I can't explain why I am drawn to our little church. There's quite a bit I don't agree with. However, for me it's not about political agreement or finding your tribe- we all come from different backgrounds. It's just a place of decency, respect, and kindness in a culture that's increasingly indecent, disrespectful, and unkind. And I suspect alot of young people are confusing finding their tribe, with finding meaning and purpose in enduring values. And that's a very wrongheaded and primitive way to think about what is truly satisfying in life.
 
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