Lack of Confidence, Women, and Looks (Advice Please)

[TheLastGeek]

Likewise. I prefer American women and appreciated the humor. The thought of leaving the country to find a wife isn't appealing to me at all. I mean, it's not like Western women are copies of each other. Western society contains the same range of personality and temperament found in other societies. It's just that we have greater freedom of media etc. which showcases personalities who are into that sort of thing. Most westerners aren't Hollywood stereotypes.

Why would I look elsewhere and risk that she's just using me for a green card or as a way to escape her home country. No thanks! That's a hard pass for me. Think about it. Why would a supposedly traditional woman from a foreign country want to pair up with an American man? Surely not because she is traditionally-minded or thinks of him as traditional. If that's what she was looking for she would prefer local men.

Although I'm not opposed to international marriages, I think the relationship should happen first. The international part would be a logistical problem to solve rather than the reason for the relationship itself.

Also, whose traditions are we talking about? I'm not interested in women who are illiterate or want to be treated like property, for instance. That's backward. Not necessarily traditional. Likewise, would she prefer that I spend my days hunting mammoth and spit-painting outlines of my hands on cave walls? Although some of those cave paintings are pretty cool, I hope not. People are continually creating and shaping future traditions. Even in supposedly traditional cultures, history shows us that those traditions are far from stagnant.

It seems to me that the "passport bros" trope is more of an internet thing than a widespread trend in real life.

This is why you're awesome, Miles. <3

 

[LoveDivine]

Likewise. I prefer American women and appreciated the humor. The thought of leaving the country to find a wife isn't appealing to me at all. I mean, it's not like Western women are copies of each other. Western society contains the same range of personality and temperament found in other societies. It's just that we have greater freedom of media etc. which showcases personalities who are into that sort of thing. Most westerners aren't Hollywood stereotypes.

Why would I look elsewhere and risk that she's just using me for a green card or as a way to escape her home country. No thanks! That's a hard pass for me. Think about it. Why would a supposedly traditional woman from a foreign country want to pair up with an American man? Surely not because she is traditionally-minded or thinks of him as traditional. If that's what she was looking for she would prefer local men.

Although I'm not opposed to international marriages, I think the relationship should happen first. The international part would be a logistical problem to solve rather than the reason for the relationship itself.

Also, whose traditions are we talking about? I'm not interested in women who are illiterate or want to be treated like property, for instance. That's backward. Not necessarily traditional. Likewise, would she prefer that I spend my days hunting mammoth and spit-painting outlines of my hands on cave walls? Although some of those cave paintings are pretty cool, I hope not. People are continually creating and shaping future traditions. Even in supposedly traditional cultures, history shows us that those traditions are far from stagnant.

It seems to me that the "passport bros" trope is more of an internet thing than a widespread trend in real life.

I agree. There are lots of desperate women ready to marry for a green card. If someone is ready to leave behind her own culture and family and marry someone for a better economic situation, isn't that materialistic? Haha.

Human beings are universally flawed and there is no guarantee that someone from another culture is any better. I think the key is to use discernment and seek out decent Christians.

 

[mojoboy31]

I agree. There are lots of desperate women ready to marry for a green card. If someone is ready to leave behind her own culture and family and marry someone for a better economic situation, isn't that materialistic? Haha.

Human beings are universally flawed and there is no guarantee that someone from another culture is any better. I think the key is to use discernment and seek out decent Christians.

Exactly! Like, it would always be in the back of my head: "does she love me? Or did she just wanna be in the US?" I can understand being kind of annoyed with how woke culture has seemed to take over "feminine" culture in the west. But you have to remember, what you see in your Facebook feed, in your Reelz, on Insta, on TikTok, etc-- it isn't real. Those are not the opinions of the majority. If social media is where you're trying to find "the right one", you're looking in the wrong place.

 

[TheLastGeek]

As someone who worked in a position where I dealt with a lot of immigrants for about a decade, I can tell you I saw quite a few "plain" looking middle aged and older men with younger, thinner, prettier Asian wives on their arms. Were those women madly in love or just happy to be in America? Make of that what you will.

 

[mojoboy31]

As someone who worked in a position where I dealt with a lot of immigrants for about a decade, I can tell you I saw quite a few "plain" looking middle aged and older men with younger, thinner, prettier Asian wives on their arms. Were those women madly in love or just happy to be in America? Make of that what you will.

Where I live, we have a pretty large community of them, many shop at my store, lots work at my store. They're very sweet ladies, most have been here 20 some years. Their husbands... Some of the worst examples of "men" I've ever seen. Whale size guys who have to ride on the electric carts, angry, grumpy, mean, rude, entitled, just nasty people to deal with, and they have no shame, and will lay into you over the smallest thing while their tiny Asian wife stands next to them, horrified, giving you the "I'm sorry" eyes.

The women are devoutly Catholic, and I think originally it was their church that played Matchmaker years ago, it seems to make sense. Now it's them. They find men for family members who live over seas. They all like me, and try to set me up with younger relatives from the old country. "I have niece, looking for nice Christian man like you, I give her your facebook?"

I'm always like, "ahhhhh, no thanks..." xD

 

[Miles]

Speaking of couples, I worked at a drugstore when I was a teenager and at a bookstore for part of my 20s. Interacting with customers was part of my daily routine. In a retail environment, it quickly became apparent to me that all sorts of people find love. Conventionally attractive women with unconventionally attractive men, unconventionally attractive women with conventionally attractive men, age gaps going both ways, personal style differences, you name it. Looks don't reveal much about whether somebody is single or in a relationship, much less the quality of the relationship.

Lack of confidence is more likely than looks to hold people back, but I would say that basic compatibility is more important than either.

Human beings are universally flawed and there is no guarantee that someone from another culture is any better. I think the key is to use discernment and seek out decent Christians.

True. Finding a decent Christian significant other goes a long way toward creating a foundation of stability. We all have our faults. Being in a relationship doesn't solve our problems, as some wrongly believe, and can even make those faults worse if we're not thoughtful about who we let into our lives.

 

[LoveDivine]

Where I live, we have a pretty large community of them, many shop at my store, lots work at my store. They're very sweet ladies, most have been here 20 some years. Their husbands... Some of the worst examples of "men" I've ever seen. Whale size guys who have to ride on the electric carts, angry, grumpy, mean, rude, entitled, just nasty people to deal with, and they have no shame, and will lay into you over the smallest thing while their tiny Asian wife stands next to them, horrified, giving you the "I'm sorry" eyes.

The women are devoutly Catholic, and I think originally it was their church that played Matchmaker years ago, it seems to make sense. Now it's them. They find men for family members who live over seas. They all like me, and try to set me up with younger relatives from the old country. "I have niece, looking for nice Christian man like you, I give her your facebook?"

I'm always like, "ahhhhh, no thanks..." xD

The descriptive adjectives whale sized grumpy men made me laugh so hard.

It's actually horrifying and nothing short of tragic. The extreme feminism we see promoted in the west is sinful and not fostering Godliness in women, and yet, it's still less horrible than that.

 

[mojoboy31]

The descriptive adjectives whale sized grumpy men made me laugh so hard.

It's actually horrifying and nothing short of tragic. The extreme feminism we see promoted in the west is sinful and not fostering Godliness in women, and yet, it's still less horrible than that.

Well, remember, I work at walmart, so I'm not exaggerating xD

Yeah for real

 

[TheLastGeek]

Where I live, we have a pretty large community of them, many shop at my store, lots work at my store. They're very sweet ladies, most have been here 20 some years. Their husbands... Some of the worst examples of "men" I've ever seen. Whale size guys who have to ride on the electric carts, angry, grumpy, mean, rude, entitled, just nasty people to deal with, and they have no shame, and will lay into you over the smallest thing while their tiny Asian wife stands next to them, horrified, giving you the "I'm sorry" eyes.

The women are devoutly Catholic, and I think originally it was their church that played Matchmaker years ago, it seems to make sense. Now it's them. They find men for family members who live over seas. They all like me, and try to set me up with younger relatives from the old country. "I have niece, looking for nice Christian man like you, I give her your facebook?"

I'm always like, "ahhhhh, no thanks..." xD

This was my experience, too. Not the nasty men - most of them seemed very nice and genuinely affectionate for their wives. But these women come from incredibly traditional cultures most of the time, where women must be meek, quiet, and subservient. Finding a wealthy (by their home country's standards) American man to give them an entry into the fabled Land Of Opportunity, especially if he's nice and treats her decently, is the ultimate dream of these women. Never mind if he's twice her age, obese, bald, etc; she has no option to leave him, that would be unforgivable and unthinkable. And if they're genuinely happy together, that's great. But it does leave you wondering how many of these couples are actually in love, and how many are just living out a mutually beneficial contract.

 

[LoveDivine]

This was my experience, too. Not the nasty men - most of them seemed very nice and genuinely affectionate for their wives. But these women come from incredibly traditional cultures most of the time, where women must be meek, quiet, and subservient. Finding a wealthy (by their home country's standards) American man to give them an entry into the fabled Land Of Opportunity, especially if he's nice and treats her decently, is the ultimate dream of these women. Never mind if he's twice her age, obese, bald, etc; she has no option to leave him, that would be unforgivable and unthinkable. And if they're genuinely happy together, that's great. But it does leave you wondering how many of these couples are actually in love, and how many are just living out a mutually beneficial contract.

Marrying for love is sort of a more recent concept. Most in the past didn't have that luxury. You married for practical and economic reasons primarily ( not saying there wasn't love as well), but it wasn't about romance. Most Victorian novels are about finding that position in society through marriage. It was more about securing that financial stability and status then the actual romance. It was a pressure on men as well. They had to marry specific women too.

In cultures where women are subservient it actually places a huge economic pressure on the men. They are expected to provide everything and pay for everything. I know the mindset of women from those cultures ( I know some personally) they are far more demanding. Men have to pay for absolutely everything. It's expected by the women and their families. And, that includes expensive jewellery in some cultures. Men have a lot of expectations to live up to. It's not great for anyone ( in my opinion). I'm sure some men don't mind that dynamic ( especially if they are successful and rich) and might prefer it, but I think many others would prefer more of an equal partnership. I've seen my share of threads here of guys complaining about the unfair financial expectations placed on men. That only gets compounded in cultures where the women are expected to be provided for by the men

 

[ThisIsMe123]

This was my experience, too. Not the nasty men - most of them seemed very nice and genuinely affectionate for their wives. But these women come from incredibly traditional cultures most of the time, where women must be meek, quiet, and subservient. Finding a wealthy (by their home country's standards) American man to give them an entry into the fabled Land Of Opportunity, especially if he's nice and treats her decently, is the ultimate dream of these women. Never mind if he's twice her age, obese, bald, etc; she has no option to leave him, that would be unforgivable and unthinkable. And if they're genuinely happy together, that's great. But it does leave you wondering how many of these couples are actually in love, and how many are just living out a mutually beneficial contract.

I know a pastor of a small town church that recently brought over a young Filipina woman and married her. Although, I would say they did meet in the most virtuous way. He was on a mission trip over there, they kept in touch via pen pals online, and then brought her over.

She must've been 30 at the time, him late early 50s I think?

They almost ended things because his kids were already high school/college aged...and she wanted kids (she had none). He had his from a previous marriage.

To see them together, you'd think "What the heck are they doing together?"

He's a financial advisor and I think she does physical therapy.

 

[timewerx]

I agree. There are lots of desperate women ready to marry for a green card. If someone is ready to leave behind her own culture and family and marry someone for a better economic situation, isn't that materialistic? Haha.

The desperate ones hang out in bars where white men hang out but many don't.

Many are simply aggressively pursued by their white suitors on social media. Many didn't want it. Many had anxiety when they leave not knowing what will happen to them in another country. Many had no expectations their personal lives will actually get better than if they hadn't left home.

You probably will never understand why people in poor countries do this. You take many things for granted, even food. But in poor countries it's not uncommon for someone to not eat properly because of not having enough money for food.

They didn't leave so they can drive brand new cars, live in a nicer house or be able to wear nice clothes, shoes, jewelry and get that coveted green card. In many cases, they did it for the poor family they left behind so they can have enough food to eat, have decent education for their brothers and sisters and even other relatives, and be able to afford sending their parents to better hospitals. They send back home the money they earn. That's the truth.

If you think that is materialistic then so be it, I'll take it.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

The desperate ones hang out in bars where white men hang out but many don't.

Many are simply aggressively pursued by their white suitors on social media. Many didn't want it. Many had anxiety when they leave not knowing what will happen to them in another country. Many had no expectations their personal lives will actually get better than if they hadn't left home.

You probably will never understand why people in poor countries do this. You take many things for granted, even food. But in poor countries it's not uncommon for someone to not eat properly because of not having enough money for food.

They didn't leave so they can drive brand new cars, live in a nicer house or be able to wear nice clothes, shoes, jewelry and get that coveted green card. In many cases, they did it for the poor family they left behind so they can have enough food to eat, have decent education for their brothers and sisters and even other relatives, and be able to afford sending their parents to better hospitals. They send back home the money they earn. That's the truth.

If you think that is materialistic then so be it, I'll take it.

Friend of mine has had an ongoing relationship with a woman he met through an international dating site. She's in Morocco. Been engaged to her for a few months. But shoot, it takes a heck of a long time to get her into the USA on that fiance' VISA. He announced his engagement to the world on FB...he was rather secret about his relationship wiht her until that moment.

His trips to Morocco at first only had photos of him, with his fiance' behind the camera, not in the pics with him.

His family is ecstatic for him. She's educated (speaks multiple languages)

 

[LoveDivine]

The desperate ones hang out in bars where white men hang out but many don't.

Many are simply aggressively pursued by their white suitors on social media. Many didn't want it. Many had anxiety when they leave not knowing what will happen to them in another country. Many had no expectations their personal lives will actually get better than if they hadn't left home.

You probably will never understand why people in poor countries do this. You take many things for granted, even food. But in poor countries it's not uncommon for someone to not eat properly because of not having enough money for food.

They didn't leave so they can drive brand new cars, live in a nicer house or be able to wear nice clothes, shoes, jewelry and get that coveted green card. In many cases, they did it for the poor family they left behind so they can have enough food to eat, have decent education for their brothers and sisters and even other relatives, and be able to afford sending their parents to better hospitals. They send back home the money they earn. That's the truth.

If you think that is materialistic then so be it, I'll take it.

I don't fault anyone in that situation. That's a very rough decision to be forced to make and I'm sure many are heartbroken to leave their family behind in poverty. I'm not being insensitive to that. My grandparents were immigrants from Southern Italy and had to make the hard choice to leave their culture and family behind to be able to live a better life ( they were starving and poor in Italy after WWII). So, I actually do understand the plight of these women. However the decision to marry these western men and relocate is still being motivated by economics, primarily. It's materialistic, but it's motivated by survival instincts/ desperation vs the greed or spoiled behavior of some women in the west. It's not the same thing, but at the end of the day, they are still marrying for money and stability. My issue is not with the women. I feel very sad actually that many of them do choose to marry to help their families and then are often treated poorly by their husbands. I've seen that. That actually really upsets me.

If anything my comments were more directed at the men who use their money to pursue these women and then also complain about Western women being too materialistic. If you think about it, they are actually making it harder for the local men who are also poor to find wives since they swoop in and offer the women something the local men can't. What can be considered more materialistic or "western" than that. We all know this happens and like you said many men pursue these women. It's gross and shows that what they really want is a servant or subservient wife who will cater to all their needs. It's not about finding a Christian spouse, it's about control


Now, that doesn't apply to the men who are overseas doing missions work, etc and organically connect with a woman and then develop a relationship. That's an entirely different thing. I have no issue with that.

 

[mojoboy31]

I don't fault anyone in that situation. That's a very rough decision to be forced to make and I'm sure many are heartbroken to leave their family behind in poverty. I'm not being insensitive to that. My grandparents were immigrants from Southern Italy and had to make the hard choice to leave their culture and family behind to be able to live a better life ( they were starving and poor in Italy after WWII). So, I actually do understand the plight of these women. However the decision to marry these western men and relocate is still being motivated by economics, primarily. It's materialistic, but it's motivated by survival instincts/ desperation vs the greed or spoiled behavior of some women in the west. It's not the same thing, but at the end of the day, they are still marrying for money and stability. My issue is not with the women. I feel very sad actually that many of them do choose to marry to help their families and then are often treated poorly by their husbands. I've seen that. That actually really upsets me.

If anything my comments were more directed at the men who use their money to pursue these women and then also complain about Western women being too materialistic. If you think about it, they are actually making it harder for the local men who are also poor to find wives since they swoop in and offer the women something the local men can't. What can be considered more materialistic or "western" than that. We all know this happens and like you said many men pursue these women. It's gross and shows that what they really want is a servant or subservient wife who will cater to all their needs. It's not about finding a Christian spouse, it's about control


Now, that doesn't apply to the men who are overseas doing missions work, etc and organically connect with a woman and then develop a relationship. That's an entirely different thing. I have no issue with that.

There's also the very common theme that most of these relationships are not age appropriate. Many men are just specifically seeking out young women-- the younger the better. I know people who have gone to Thailand to marry 16 yesterday Olds, because it's legal there. It's so gross.

 

[timewerx]

but it's motivated by survival instincts/ desperation vs the greed or spoiled behavior of some women in the west. It's not the same thing, but at the end of the day, they are still marrying for money and stability. My issue is not with the women. I feel very sad actually that many of them do choose to marry to help their families and then are often treated poorly by their husbands. I've seen that. That actually really upsets me.

The Bible actually allows such setup and not call it a sin.

There are only quite a few things where marriage is a sin such as marrying a divorced person, someone of the same sex, someone who is closely related (incest), marrying for sinful reasons such as greed, and if the marriage is forced.

Romantic feelings or happiness in marriage isn't required to make a marriage valid in the eyes of God. It is optional and even considered a luxury for many.

A marriage only becomes materialistic or greedy if you did it for the love of money or material things and not out of love and survival of your family.

Esther in the Bible married a despicable man for the survival of a whole nation. There was no romantic feelings when she consented to the marriage (nor to the contest that she knew would eventually lead to the marriage if she won).

To someone who is poor, money could be critically important to their survival. The use of money for survival or to save someone's life isn't frowned upon in the Bible. To ask a material thing from someone because you need it for basic survival and you can't afford it Jesus don't see it as materialistic. Giving money to the poor isn't an encouragement to materialism (unless you're giving a large sum of money to only FEW poor people).

But to someone living in USA may have a different perspective of "survival" vs someone living in the poorest corners of the planet. Someone in the USA might say they can't survive without a car or without a phone even if they are still well-fed and have a house to live. The Biblical perspective of survival or having the basic needs is probably much closer to the perspective of someone living in the poorest corners of the planet.

To marry someone in a better economic situation to be able to send money to your poor family so they'll have enough to eat isn't materialism.

It would only be materialism if you married someone so you can have expensive bags, so your family will have the latest iphones and be wearing nice expensive clothes and things like that.

I'm just writing these things so you don't judge other people wrongly or have resentment towards people who actually did no wrong in the eyes of God.

But even if they did wrong in the eyes of God, we probably are not qualified to judge unless you "walked a mile in their shoes" - you literally lived the exact same circumstances they had for a long time.