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(I realize you were not asking for political opinions, but since you disapprove of my expressed attitude toward Hovind, let me tell you why I have it: the man supports and promulgates the belief that the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an accurate historical account. The Protocols is the central document in modern antisemitism; it is a forged account of the Jewish plot to take over the world, and it constituted, in the words of one historian, Hitler's "warrant for genocide". Given the church's history of antisemitism and the enormous legacy of violence that the Protocols have produced, I believe that their promotion should be denounced by Christians in the starkest language possible. What the state of Hovind's soul is I have no idea, but some of what he preaches is indeed vile.)

Just for clarification on this, I feel like it's necessary to point out that Hovind has said that he does not believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were written by Jews. He believes that they were written by some other organization and made to look like they were written by Jews in case they were ever found. They have a quote from him about this on Wikiquote, which was one of the first things I found when I was looking up his politics to see what he had said that was morally problematic.

"There was a book written called The Protocols of Zion [sic]. Now, it was written by the rich guys, but they said, “If this book ever gets found we want to blame it on the Jews.” So they called it Protocols of Zion [sic]. But it’s actually the plan of how to control the world. It’s about seventy some pages, you can, I don’t think you can print it off my website but you can get it in a lot of places. And some people saying, “Hovind, Hovind mentions The Protocols of Zion [sic]. That means he is anti Jewish.” No, I’m not anti Jewish, okay. I love the Jews. But The Protocols of Zion [sic] was written to explain how to control the world, I mean, it lays it all out. But it’s really carefully done so that if it is ever discovered the Jews take the blame for it. Interesting. Well, read the book and see what you think.

I believe he's deeply wrong and that the Protocols were written with the darkest kind of hate, the kind that would later lead to the deaths of millions, but he does seem to believe in conspiracy theories that would make this idea fit neatly into his world view, so I doubt that this was just a lie to cover himself. Again, I do not support his beliefs here. If you want proof that the devil is real, then all you need is to consider the kind of hate that motivated the production of a text like the Protocols meant to cause so much pain. His opinions are sometimes unusual enough that he would probably confess to antisemitism if he were antisemitic, though.
 
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sfs

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Just for clarification on this, I feel like it's necessary to point out that Hovind has said that he does not believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were written by Jews. He believes that they were written by some other organization and made to look like they were written by Jews in case they were ever found. They have a quote from him about this on Wikiquote, which was one of the first things I found when I was looking up his politics to see what he had said that was morally problematic.
Correction noted. I was not aware that he made that distinction.
 
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metherion

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Kent Hovind’s science is particularly poor. Let me give some examples.

First, in at least one of his videos, Kent Hovind talks about a water canopy surrounding the earth, filtering out radiation, and so on, and I believe he actually says it was ice at some point, and was around until about Noah’s time. According to AIG, the Flood was around 2304 BC, I don’t remember what date Hovind gives. So the shield was around (4000BC-2300BC=1700) about 1700 years. The sun can melt about half a meter of ice per day at the equator, so the shield must have been at least (.5 meters/day * 365 days/year * 1700 years *1600 meters/mile) 193.9 miles, which would block out ALL light and heat from the sun. That wouldn’t produce the ‘tropical temperatures’ or whatnot Kent Hovind says it would unless God was miraculously passing light and heat through the ice shield... but then why have it?

Second, in another one of his videos, he contradicts himself. I believe it’s in his dinosaurs and the Bible thing, he says the following contradictory things:
He believes the genes for largeness are gone.
If you let a lizard grow from long enough, it can be about the size of a triceratops.

They can’t both be true!

Another thing is his 6 ‘kinds’ of evolution. Kent Hovind has claimed that there are 6 types of evolution pushed by ‘evolutionists’, that only one of them has been observed, and that all the rest are unobserved, unevidenced hogwash. There are as follows:

1. Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang.
2. Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.
3. Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.
4. Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.
5. Macroevolution- Origin of major kinds.
6. Microevolution- Variations within kinds-- the only one observed.

Now, let’s dissect this list.
1-cosmic evolution. This has nothing to do with biology, or Darwin, or evolution. He doesn’t even give the correct definition. What is referred to as cosmic evolution encompasses much more than just the Big Bang.
2. Chemical evolution- there’s another name for this. It’s called nuclear fusion. We see it in stars. We see it in the Sun. We see it in experimental reactors, and we see it in bombs. Man not only has observed it, we have used it for destruction and are trying to harness it for power.
3. Stellar and planetary evolution- Stellar evolution is actually a term for the life cycle of stars, not how they got here. And accretion discs of stars forming and planets forming have been observed.
4. Organic evolution- actually the abiogenesis hypothesis, which is biochemistry, not biology. It is still a hypothesis, not claimed to be anything more, not a part of the theory of evolution, not related to Darwin, or anything.
5. Macro-evolution- The first thing on this list of ‘evolutions’ that has anything to do with biology, Hovind does the utterly unscientific thing and injects terms without definitions- kinds- that means no evidence can be brought against his position because the goalposts haven’t been planted yet.
6. Micro-evolution. This is the standard anti-science canard :if we’ve observed it directly, it’s microevolution, therefore it cannot be macro-evolution, because of that kinds word I haven’t defined.’

Another thing Kent Hovind has claimed is that a giant ice meteor is responsible for the ice caps, that when it hit, all the cold froze the mammoths standing up, because it was ice. This is ridiculous. Anything coming into the atmosphere - space shuttles, meteorites, satellites, whatever- heats up immensely. And then, from things that don’t fly under their own power, there’s an impact, where fist sized or smaller meteorites tear through buildings and cars and the like. A meteor large enough to contain all the ice caps just hitting the planet? That wouldn’t freeze anything, that would hit the ground and explode, or smash everything in its path like some cosmic bowling ball, not freeze mammoths standing up. Kinetic energy is (.5 * mass * velocity squared). According to the American Meteor Society, (Meteor FAQs | American Meteor Society), they travel at slowest, about 11 km/sec. And googling ‘the mass of ice on earth’ leads to this site (Quick Facts on Ice Sheets), where we find out that just the antarctic is 30 million cubic kilometers of ice. The density of ice is about 90% that of water, so about .9 g/cubic centimeter. I'm going to use 1 to make the math easier. You can just multiply the end result by .9 if you want.
Googling ‘cubic kilometer to cubic centimeter’ gives 10^15. So we have 30 million * 10^15 grams, or 30 million * 10^12 kilograms, which is the same as 3*10^19 kilograms. So, .5 * 11km/sec * 11km/sec *3*10^19 kilograms gives us 181.5*10^19 (kilometers squared kilograms per second squared). There are 1000 kilometers in a meter, so we have 181.5 *1000 * 1000 * 10^19 (meters squared kilograms per second), which is 1.815 * 10^27. That whole ‘meters squared kilograms per second) is a joule, so we have 1.815 * 10^27 joules. Giga- means ‘times 10^9’, so we have 1.815 * 10^18 gigajoules.
Why gigajoules? Because, according to wikipedia, we have that 1 ton of TNT gives off 4.184 gigajoules. Which means we have 4.3*1^17 tons of TNT. Thats 430,000,000,000,000,000 tons of TNT for an ice meteor hitting at low speed that holds all the ice in the Antarctic, not the whole planet. That wouldn’t freeze that mammoths standing up. That would obliterate a large part of Earth.


For the last part I will address in this post, I direct your attention to a Youtube video. I’m sorry that the name is ‘why do people laugh at creationists’, but it is the only copy on youtube I could find with this particular section, and I’ll tell you exactly what times to look at to only see the parts of Kent Hovind’s speech I’m looking at.

Now, from :48 through 2:55, there will be a bit of thunderf00t speaking from :58 to 1:44, with ‘buzzer beeps’ at wrong points until 2:00. But, if you just want to skip all that, watch from 2:00 to 2:55. That part is unadulterated, un-commentated-upon, un-subtitled, pure part of Kent Hovind trying to explain how reproduction works.

Why do people laugh at creationists? Part 12 (Made by ThunderF00t) - YouTube

I don’t care if you watch the rest or not, just that one to 2 minutes. And then compare it to how human reproduction ACTUALLY works.

No, between the whole impossible ice canopy that leaves the entire earth dark, the ice meteor completely ignoring how hard it should hit the planet and freezing mammoths, the getting what evolution is and is not evolution wrong, the getting how humans reproduce wrong, and more, I don’t think that Kent Hovind’s science is good. He gets many things that don’t have to do with the age of the earth wrong, implausible, et cetera.

Metherion
 
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Kent Hovind’s science is particularly poor. Let me give some examples.

First, in at least one of his videos, Kent Hovind talks about a water canopy surrounding the earth, filtering out radiation, and so on, and I believe he actually says it was ice at some point, and was around until about Noah’s time. According to AIG, the Flood was around 2304 BC, I don’t remember what date Hovind gives. So the shield was around (4000BC-2300BC=1700) about 1700 years. The sun can melt about half a meter of ice per day at the equator, so the shield must have been at least (.5 meters/day * 365 days/year * 1700 years *1600 meters/mile) 193.9 miles, which would block out ALL light and heat from the sun. That wouldn’t produce the ‘tropical temperatures’ or whatnot Kent Hovind says it would unless God was miraculously passing light and heat through the ice shield... but then why have it?

Second, in another one of his videos, he contradicts himself. I believe it’s in his dinosaurs and the Bible thing, he says the following contradictory things:
He believes the genes for largeness are gone.
If you let a lizard grow from long enough, it can be about the size of a triceratops.

They can’t both be true!

Another thing is his 6 ‘kinds’ of evolution. Kent Hovind has claimed that there are 6 types of evolution pushed by ‘evolutionists’, that only one of them has been observed, and that all the rest are unobserved, unevidenced hogwash. There are as follows:

1. Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang.
2. Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.
3. Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.
4. Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.
5. Macroevolution- Origin of major kinds.
6. Microevolution- Variations within kinds-- the only one observed.

Now, let’s dissect this list.
1-cosmic evolution. This has nothing to do with biology, or Darwin, or evolution. He doesn’t even give the correct definition. What is referred to as cosmic evolution encompasses much more than just the Big Bang.
2. Chemical evolution- there’s another name for this. It’s called nuclear fusion. We see it in stars. We see it in the Sun. We see it in experimental reactors, and we see it in bombs. Man not only has observed it, we have used it for destruction and are trying to harness it for power.
3. Stellar and planetary evolution- Stellar evolution is actually a term for the life cycle of stars, not how they got here. And accretion discs of stars forming and planets forming have been observed.
4. Organic evolution- actually the abiogenesis hypothesis, which is biochemistry, not biology. It is still a hypothesis, not claimed to be anything more, not a part of the theory of evolution, not related to Darwin, or anything.
5. Macro-evolution- The first thing on this list of ‘evolutions’ that has anything to do with biology, Hovind does the utterly unscientific thing and injects terms without definitions- kinds- that means no evidence can be brought against his position because the goalposts haven’t been planted yet.
6. Micro-evolution. This is the standard anti-science canard :if we’ve observed it directly, it’s microevolution, therefore it cannot be macro-evolution, because of that kinds word I haven’t defined.’

Another thing Kent Hovind has claimed is that a giant ice meteor is responsible for the ice caps, that when it hit, all the cold froze the mammoths standing up, because it was ice. This is ridiculous. Anything coming into the atmosphere - space shuttles, meteorites, satellites, whatever- heats up immensely. And then, from things that don’t fly under their own power, there’s an impact, where fist sized or smaller meteorites tear through buildings and cars and the like. A meteor large enough to contain all the ice caps just hitting the planet? That wouldn’t freeze anything, that would hit the ground and explode, or smash everything in its path like some cosmic bowling ball, not freeze mammoths standing up. Kinetic energy is (.5 * mass * velocity squared). According to the American Meteor Society, they travel at slowest, about 11 km/sec. And googling ‘the mass of ice on earth’ leads to this site, where we find out that just the antarctic is 30 million cubic kilometers of ice. The density of ice is about 90% that of water, so about .9 g/cubic centimeter. I'm going to use 1 to make the math easier. You can just multiply the end result by .9 if you want.
Googling ‘cubic kilometer to cubic centimeter’ gives 10^15. So we have 30 million * 10^15 grams, or 30 million * 10^12 kilograms, which is the same as 3*10^19 kilograms. So, .5 * 11km/sec * 11km/sec *3*10^19 kilograms gives us 181.5*10^19 (kilometers squared kilograms per second squared). There are 1000 kilometers in a meter, so we have 181.5 *1000 * 1000 * 10^19 (meters squared kilograms per second), which is 1.815 * 10^27. That whole ‘meters squared kilograms per second) is a joule, so we have 1.815 * 10^27 joules. Giga- means ‘times 10^9’, so we have 1.815 * 10^18 gigajoules.
Why gigajoules? Because, according to wikipedia, we have that 1 ton of TNT gives off 4.184 gigajoules. Which means we have 4.3*1^17 tons of TNT. Thats 430,000,000,000,000,000 tons of TNT for an ice meteor hitting at low speed that holds all the ice in the Antarctic, not the whole planet. That wouldn’t freeze that mammoths standing up. That would obliterate a large part of Earth.


For the last part I will address in this post, I direct your attention to a Youtube video. I’m sorry that the name is ‘why do people laugh at creationists’, but it is the only copy on youtube I could find with this particular section, and I’ll tell you exactly what times to look at to only see the parts of Kent Hovind’s speech I’m looking at.

Now, from :48 through 2:55, there will be a bit of thunderf00t speaking from :58 to 1:44, with ‘buzzer beeps’ at wrong points until 2:00. But, if you just want to skip all that, watch from 2:00 to 2:55. That part is unadulterated, un-commentated-upon, un-subtitled, pure part of Kent Hovind trying to explain how reproduction works.

I don’t care if you watch the rest or not, just that one to 2 minutes. And then compare it to how human reproduction ACTUALLY works.

No, between the whole impossible ice canopy that leaves the entire earth dark, the ice meteor completely ignoring how hard it should hit the planet and freezing mammoths, the getting what evolution is and is not evolution wrong, the getting how humans reproduce wrong, and more, I don’t think that Kent Hovind’s science is good. He gets many things that don’t have to do with the age of the earth wrong, implausible, et cetera.

Metherion

That was very thorough. Thank You.
 
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sojourner4Christ

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I can only state what I believe to be the truth, as revealed to me by the Holy Spirit.

I have viewed and researched over 15 hours of Hovind's material. His research appears to be rock solid, difficult (of course) but not impossible for the diligent to confirm. His material always contains verification details for the skeptics.

I know that Hovind is presently a political prisoner of a system he has been exposing.

I know from firsthand experience (e.g. my research and my incarcerations) that the worldly system comes down hard to silence those who 1) know the truth, and 2) have the ability to disemminate that truth.

I also know that the wikipedia site is "dirty," that is to say, it is fully aligned with the new world order agenda that the merchants, the "rich men of the earth," the bankers, the men who love money more than they love you or me, have been planning for millenia and which is in service to satan.

I also know, from my research into man's codes, rules, regulations, and legalities, that the inventors of such, routinely endeavor to assassinate the character (and often the men themselves) of those who speak the truth. It is not unusual for those so incarcerated to "go missing" immediatey upon their release from incarceration, never to be seen again. Further, there have been instances where such men have had their entire family "wiped out," that is to say, they also have "gone missing" and have had their entire abode (e.g. their house) and all associated items physically bulldozed and taken away, including all public records of their existence.

If the arbitrary and capricious "laws" these evil men invent are not sufficiently beneficial to their pursuits, they will readily change them.

I post this not to frighten anyone, as the Lord has not given his people the foul spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. Only the truth shall make you free.
 
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philadiddle

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I have viewed and researched over 15 hours of Hovind's material. His research appears to be rock solid, difficult (of course) but not impossible for the diligent to confirm.
Can you give an example of his rock solid evidence or a rock solid argument?
 
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sfs

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I can only state what I believe to be the truth, as revealed to me by the Holy Spirit.

I have viewed and researched over 15 hours of Hovind's material. His research appears to be rock solid, difficult (of course) but not impossible for the diligent to confirm. His material always contains verification details for the skeptics.
No, you can do more than state what you believe to be the truth: you can state the evidence your research uncovered that showed Hovind's claims to be rock solid.
 
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sfs

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Which truth(s) are you disputing?
I didn't dispute any truths. I asked you to state the evidence your research uncovered that confirmed Hovind's claims. Just one example would do for a start.
 
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Hi,

I am pretty new to advanced apologetics, and I really liked Kent Hovind and all his stuff when I first stumbled across him. Some people on this forum and some people I know in my personal life have told me that he isn't a good source for christian science and that he has really bad scientific support for his ideas. I was just wondering what you guys thought about him and his ideas. I am NOT looking for why Hovind is a stupid person, or why he is a dishonest person, or anything about him personally, just wondering about his science.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Curtis

I've always used peer reviewed literature to support my Creationist views.
It's more work but worth the effort.
 
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RDGSr

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I forget where I saw them, but I saw giants bones along with the normal ones.

I like Kent. I watched all his seminars they are the ones that make sence.
I go to Dr Dino and Creation evolution naturally you need to do these nat as web links but "alone".
Then there is the ark discoveries. again without caps or putingthem together.
Kent Hovind was ripped off by the u s infernal revenue corporation. He was railroaded.
I kind of like answers in genesis too; but Kent's theories make more sence; both Spiritually and secularly.
My e mail is actually my 3 innitials in caps with the word comcast in the net.
I can send the linls and stuff so you can enjoy.
 
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mathetes123

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Hi,

I am pretty new to advanced apologetics, and I really liked Kent Hovind and all his stuff when I first stumbled across him. Some people on this forum and some people I know in my personal life have told me that he isn't a good source for christian science and that he has really bad scientific support for his ideas. I was just wondering what you guys thought about him and his ideas. I am NOT looking for why Hovind is a stupid person, or why he is a dishonest person, or anything about him personally, just wondering about his science.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Curtis

I think is apoogetics are fine but the skeptics are always going to point to his tax evasion conviction as a distraction.
 
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Steve Petersen

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I forget where I saw them, but I saw giants bones along with the normal ones.

I like Kent. I watched all his seminars they are the ones that make sence.
I go to Dr Dino and Creation evolution naturally you need to do these nat as web links but "alone".
Then there is the ark discoveries. again without caps or putingthem together.
Kent Hovind was ripped off by the u s infernal revenue corporation. He was railroaded.
I kind of like answers in genesis too; but Kent's theories make more sence; both Spiritually and secularly.
My e mail is actually my 3 innitials in caps with the word comcast in the net.
I can send the linls and stuff so you can enjoy.

Is this it?

Welcome to 6000years.org | Amazing Bible Discoveries | Proof the Bible is True

Maybe this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RD49XG12Y

:D :D
 
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SkyWriting

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Is this it? :D

People just want to ignore the facts. ;)


1352273123849.jpg
 
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