Joel Osteen a fake preacher? (as are others?)

[joey_downunder]

because you are not telling the truth joey.

No you are accusing all those people who have recorded and explained what Osteen has said and done in the past the scenes of lying.

----
For everybody who likes Osteen and what his church does, I hope you continue to benefit from the worship that Osteen's church does very well.

 

[TheDag]

No you are accusing all those people who have recorded and explained what Osteen has said and done in the past the scenes of lying.

You posted the link so it is reasonable to assume you agree with it. You have learnt research skills so one assumes you know to research things for yourself.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Its funny how some people complain that we shouldn't judge people and yet the same people are judging us for judging. Or are you reproving us? Because thats what we are doing about Osteen, which is biblical to do. We are not sayings hes not a christian or a bad person. We are saying he just could teach a bit better.

If someone comes to you and says for example they are cheating on their wife. Do you reprove them so you can help them or do you just sugar coat their problem and ignore it? To me if you do the later its wrong, more so because the bible says so. Not to mention your lying. By not reproving that person you will be telling them something other then the truth.

And if you read about what judging actually is, it ususally involves someone who thinks they are better then EVERY christian and constantly tears them apart and doesn't care if they improve or not.

Where as when you reprove you come (or vica veras) and gently let that person know they may need to try and fix what they are doing. You don't think of yourself as better because you know you are a sinner too. You are there to help them not tear them down!

Whats sad is I'd love for people to repove me if I am wrong. But few do because people are so lost as to what means what. If it wans't for my sister in the Lord reproving me I'd still be illegaly copying movies or look at thing I shouldn't. Many christians will here a brother/sister come to them and say something that is a sin and instead of helping them they don't do anything.

The bible also says if a brother/sister come to you in need, you do not turn them away! Many comes to the advice section seeking such help, but most either sort of ignore it by saying something simple or they don't even respond. I've helped many people here and they have thanked me for my honesty. But I give the glory to God because if not for reproval myself I would have not grown and just continued to leave in even deeper sin!

I am curious. What do you call the apostles who talked to others about their sin in the bible? Do people call that reproval or judgement?

Now that I think about it this is why someone like Osteen needs to teach better. People often says "Well so and so told me <insert subject> is right/wrong!". Its great to listen to people, its one way we learn, but people forget we should be looking to our Bibles and God! If someone tells me something I check my bible to make sure.

 

[amyturtle]

xfreak, I couldn't agree more with everything you just posted. I am not perfect and I realized that when I got saved, so I don't throw stones at anyone when I am not perfect myself, but I do try to tell them to ask God for everything they need. God is the only one that can make them happy, nobody else. He has already proved his love for us when he sent his son to die for our sins. There is no greater love than that. God bless you my friend and everyone else on this site. Amy

 

[joey_downunder]

You posted the link so it is reasonable to assume you agree with it. You have learnt research skills so one assumes you know to research things for yourself.

Since when has agreeing with someone who said something make you the person who said it?

If you have decided all those people who have carefully documented what Osteen has said over the years have got it all wrong that's fine, but don't try to call me liar in the process of justifying that decision to yourself. I expect higher standards of you. *Over and out*.

 

[joey_downunder]

Its funny how some people complain that we shouldn't judge people and yet the same people are judging us for judging. Or are you reproving us? Because thats what we are doing about Osteen, which is biblical to do. We are not sayings hes not a christian or a bad person. We are saying he just could teach a bit better.

You said it extremely well. Thankyou.

 

[TheDag]

Since when has agreeing with someone who said something make you the person who said it?

however you have claimed that it is correct despite the evidence. Therefore you have made a wrong claim and are not speaking the truth.

If you have decided all those people who have carefully documented what Osteen has said over the years have got it all wrong that's fine, but don't try to call me liar in the process of justifying that decision to yourself. I expect higher standards of you. *Over and out*.

Joey could you at least read what I wrote? I used the article that was posted at the beginning of this thread to say Osteen is wrong. I used the very same evidence to show that the claims in that were wrong. So no I have not decided they are wrong. I am using what they have documented to proove that their claims are false. I have not made a decision simply for the sake of making a decision. i have gone on documented evidence. Something nobody here has responded to.

 

[TheDag]

Its funny how some people complain that we shouldn't judge people and yet the same people are judging us for judging. Or are you reproving us? Because thats what we are doing about Osteen, which is biblical to do. We are not sayings hes not a christian or a bad person. We are saying he just could teach a bit better.

So you know for a fact that Osteen is reading this thread do you? if not then you are not reproving because if he isn't then you can not be reproving him.

Where as when you reprove you come (or vica veras) and gently let that person know they may need to try and fix what they are doing. You don't think of yourself as better because you know you are a sinner too. You are there to help them not tear them down!

yet when I did this you said I was being judgmental! I have been well aware that there is a difference between judging and correcting (reproving) for a long time. i have explained this concept to others as well.

I am curious. What do you call the apostles who talked to others about their sin in the bible? Do people call that reproval or judgement?

Who is this question directed to?

Now that I think about it this is why someone like Osteen needs to teach better. People often says "Well so and so told me <insert subject> is right/wrong!". Its great to listen to people, its one way we learn, but people forget we should be looking to our Bibles and God! If someone tells me something I check my bible to make sure.

At a church i attended before I moved I once said to the minister "But Scotty you know I follow your every word without question". his response was to chuckle and say "I can't imagine anyone less likely to do that than you". if Billy Graham was teaching I would not believe a word of it untill I have checked what he says is true.

Likewise with the claims here about Osteen i have checked the evidence and found that they do not stack up. I used the very same evidence that was posted to say he is in error. Or in other words I have used the exact same evidence as you. yet nobody wants to respond to it. Show me where i am wrong in what I wrote. Show me how what I got from that evidence is not actually there and I will happily delete it. I guarantee that. In fact in post #41 i have proved that I will admit when I am wrong. So far your response has been i am not going to comment on that. As i said before the evidence i posted that your claims are wrong comes from the article you provided. I am not going anywhere else to support my claims. I am sure I could easily find articles supporting him if I wanted to.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

In response to this topic heres a good article below so people can see that whats being talked about in a new light, kinda of like in my topic about Judging vs Reproving:
Who Are You To Judge? | conversantlife.com

I also want to talk about whats going on in this topic and in general on this forum. Here is a verse I like, I'm sure some here will give me back lash, but these are the words in our very own bibles!

Matthew 12:34 (NIV)

You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

If you study this verse you will see that christians can be a brood of vipers too. Perfect example is this forum. Many carefully choose their words but you can still see by how they talk (even in old posts) that they are holding back angry thoughts that are sitting in their heads and hearts. Most of the people are truly judging and not reproving.

Heres a quote I like:

Some of the people of today are no different than the men of Jesus's day. We were told that wolves would be amongst us. The modern day scribes and pharisees are alive and well today within Christianity. They are just more subtle in their destructive ways, but the fruit is the same....bad. The modern day vipers are still injecting others with venom in the form of pride, hypocrisy, ignorance and condemnation. Not only do these vipers condemn non-Christians to an eternal hell, they may even condemn fellow Believers if they do not believe what they do. What they don't realize is that they are the vipers in hell and sons of it!

Its so very true. The vipers and wolves are the ones who judge others and spread falsehoods. But those vipers instead will claim others are judging and not them, because since they judge they see everyoe else as judging to. Thus leading full circle to my point of judging vs reproving.

-----EDIT-----
In response to Dag, the post was meant in general, not towards any specific person.

 

[joey_downunder]

however you have claimed that it is correct despite the evidence. Therefore you have made a wrong claim and are not speaking the truth.

TheDag you have decided to see Osteen in a positive light - that's fine. Next topic.

 

[TheDag]

TheDag you have decided to see Osteen in a positive light - that's fine. Next topic.

i don't have an opinion on him at all actually

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Check out the second hour of this if people are still for osteen!
Fighting for the Faith: Worst Easter Sermon of 2009 Award Winner

 

[homeofmew]

The Guy Has no religious Training whatsoever

"
It has been widely reported that Osteen attended Oral Roberts university in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for a two year period without receiving a degree. Likewise, it has been reported that he has no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies. In an appearance on Piers Morgan Tonight in January, 2011, Osteen mentioned that he had never attended seminary.
- WIKIPEDIA

"

 

[mnolen82]

I had heard that he was going to be on Fox News Sunday yesterday to talk about "faith in America" and I actually watched him briefly to see what he had to say. He still preaches a "prosperity gospel" and that if you do x then you will get y. He is teaching his congregation to have the attitude, "What can God do for me?" Whenever I have seen him in an interview, his answers are weak and just doesn't appear to have strong conviction or knowledge. I don't know what is in his heart, only him and God know. Jesus does warn us of false prophets and so I feel that I have to be careful who I am listening to, who is teaching me.
"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep." 2 Peter 2:1-3.

 

[WilliamB]

I haven't seen much Joel but what I've seen and read seems to be right on. Anybody can paste together verses to create an ideology so arguing is futile. He seems to be using the power of love through the Spirit, not the letter of the law to condem. The message of fire and brimstone dosent work. It just teaches people to be better liars, to give the appearance of righteousness on the outside, while the heart is still filthy. These people no more know God than my coffee table. (my coffee table might know Him better).

Bottom line, he leads people to Christ. It's Christ job to deal with the heart. In my book, Job well done Joel!

 

[Life2Christ]

The message of fire and brimstone dosent work.

That all depends on who you are hearing it from. Leonard Ravenhill was the best fire and brimstone preacher that ever lived and he got through to me. Paul Washer and John Piper's brimstone comes in the form of passionate teaching and reaching out to the people in love. Anyone who comes at you with a hammer every Sunday is not a good preacher. People need a balance.

Joel Osteen is not offensive to me, but I understand why people don't like him. But he gets through to people who won't go near Christianity. There is something to be said for that. I consider Joel's ministry as the "entry level point". Oprah asked him if there are many ways to God and Joel said point blank that there are many ways to Jesus. That is the perfect answer!

 

[WilliamB]

That all depends on who you are hearing it from. Leonard Ravenhill was the best fire and brimstone preacher that ever lived and he got through to me. Paul Washer and John Piper's brimstone comes in the form of passionate teaching and reaching out to the people in love. Anyone who comes at you with a hammer every Sunday is not a good preacher. People need a balance.

I would agree with this.

Joel Osteen is not offensive to me, but I understand why people don't like him. But he gets through to people who won't go near Christianity. There is something to be said for that. I consider Joel's ministry as the "entry level point". Oprah asked him if there are many ways to God and Joel said point blank that there are many ways to Jesus. That is the perfect answer!

Yup...that's all that matters and I agree with Joel's statement. Very good, I might use that.

People get all worked up trying to figure out who's a false prophet and blah,blah, blah. Jesus was clear. His sheep know His voice and can follow no other. I put my faith in that.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Joel said point blank that there are many ways to Jesus

Despite the fact the bible says salvation THROUGH Jesus is the only way.

His sheep know His voice and can follow no other. I put my faith in that.

Problem is every christian, corrupt or not, thinks they are hearing is voice. When the crusades happened. Were they "hearing" his voice? Of course not. When a man blows up a school with kids because God told him to, is hearing Gods voice? Nope.

If your read your bible it says there are wolves among christians. These kind of people can draw you away from whats right. Osteen may lead some to the Lord, but it doesn't mean he a great man. Whats the point of leaing people to Christ, if the rest of your praching about chrsitianity is going to lead them astray? >.<

Also if you really believe the people will know follow no other. Explain why it says in the end days even some christians will turn to the Anti-Christ thinking its actually Christ. Seems to me like to many blindly follow whomever and don't realize it. No matter what church I've gone to, no matter what christians I talk to I always look at what they are saying and compare it to what the bible says. Because we are to make sure we are listning to the truth and not lies or "opinions" on what people think is correct.

The bible is our answer guide (along with prayer). So if the answers don't match up then I ignore what is being told to me..

 

[Itagaki]

The Guy Has no religious Training whatsoever

"
It has been widely reported that Osteen attended Oral Roberts university in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for a two year period without receiving a degree. Likewise, it has been reported that he has no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies. In an appearance on Piers Morgan Tonight in January, 2011, Osteen mentioned that he had never attended seminary.
- WIKIPEDIA

"

Neither did Jesus or his apostles. :o

The best preachers only rely on God, never on cemetary... I mean, seminary.

 

[WilliamB]

Despite the fact the bible says salvation THROUGH Jesus is the only way.

Well you have to get to Jesus to go through Jesus.

Problem is every christian, corrupt or not, thinks they are hearing is voice. When the crusades happened. Were they "hearing" his voice? Of course not. When a man blows up a school with kids because God told him to, is hearing Gods voice? Nope.

If your read your bible it says there are wolves among christians. These kind of people can draw you away from whats right. Osteen may lead some to the Lord, but it doesn't mean he a great man. Whats the point of leaing people to Christ, if the rest of your praching about chrsitianity is going to lead them astray? >.

Also if you really believe the people will know follow no other. Explain why it says in the end days even some christians will turn to the Anti-Christ thinking its actually Christ. Seems to me like to many blindly follow whomever and don't realize it. No matter what church I've gone to, no matter what christians I talk to I always look at what they are saying and compare it to what the bible says. Because we are to make sure we are listning to the truth and not lies or "opinions" on what people think is correct.

The bible is our answer guide (along with prayer). So if the answers don't match up then I ignore what is being told to me..

Well, I approach things a little different. For me, I rely on the one true infallible Word of God and that's the one He wrote on my heart. It conjunction with the Spirit, it's never wrong. It is only I that refuse to listen to it sometimes. Next comes the bible but hey, that's just me.

By your logic, I should just ignore what you say, as its just your opinion. One of the true blessing of the love of Christ, is I don't have to explain anything. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe and at the end of the day, as long as we both believe in Jesus Christ, that's all the matters.