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Joel Osteen a fake preacher? (as are others?)

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by CounselorForChrist, Apr 14, 2012.

Joel Olsteen like many is...

  1. A false preacher

  2. Is a legit preacher.

  3. Somewhere in between.

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  1. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    Since I do not want to basically rewrite what I just read heres a copy of the article I wish people to read. Do you agree with this? It seems to have much biblical proof that people like Joel Olsteen are wrong in what they preach.

    It is a lengthy article, but I'd like everyone to truly read instead of just skipping it and posting some random statement. If you can read this article fully and tell me why its wrong I'd love to hear advice/opinions on why so.

    Alternativly you can read it here:
    Joel Osteen - What's Wrong With His Preaching?

    Part 1 of 3:
     
  2. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    Part 2 of 3:
     
  3. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    Part 3 of 3
     
  4. MountainofGod1

    MountainofGod1 Newbie

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    there aren't really any foreign doctrines there
     
  5. Leonfrost

    Leonfrost Newbie

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    I disagree with this article. I think Joel has some goods points here (for the record I'm not a fan, don't know the first thing about him other than what I read here). Now, here's why this article is in my opinion taking things way too far.

    Joel's approach seems to be along the lines of: Get people to church, don't condemn them but instead help them to feel they can better themselves. The article thinks that by not teaching salvation in Christ, Joel is damning these people.

    But what the article's author fails to realize is that Joel's approach LEADS TO a relationship with Christ. If he can get people to attend his church and then feel that they can better themselves, that they're accepted, then they keep coming back, and keep hearing him draw them closer to God.

    So no, I don't think he's a false preacher.
     
  6. joey_downunder

    joey_downunder big sister

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    MountainofGod1 if you cannot see what Osteen says/doesn't say is wrong you need to read the bible and /or change churches if your pastor "teaches" just like him. Jesus said blunt, unpleasant words to confront people with their sin matthew 23

    Doesn't know for suurre if non-christians go to hell - john 3:18, mark 16:16, 1 corinthians 11:32

    Doesn't preach anything about sin, repentance etc. "Because it doesn't sound positive enough" - luke 5:32/, john 8:34, romans 3:9-20

    Plus there's the word-of-faith teachings and claims that Mormons are christians proves Osteen is either a theological dunce (therefore should NOT be preaching) or he is a false teacher - positive words and a friendly smile does not undo the spiritual deceptions he is "teaching" naive, biblically illiterate christians. Joel Osteen and (Mormon) Mitt Romney believe in the same Jesus? | Defending. Contending.
     
  7. joey_downunder

    joey_downunder big sister

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    A half-gospel is a half-truth. Half-truths are lies. Half-truths are dangerous.

    God loves us BUT He hates our sin. Because of His holiness He will not let unholy sinners into Heaven.
    Positive talk in Christianese will not lead unsaved people into salvation;true faith in Christ Jesus and what He did on the cross to pay for our sins is what makes a christian born-again.

    If Osteen taught the full gospel his church attendance statistics would plummet. He is scratching itching ears, telling people that God loves them just as they are. That is a lie. 2 timothy 4:3-4
     
  8. MountainofGod1

    MountainofGod1 Newbie

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    you can read one verse out of the bible to someone, without reading the bible to them from beginning to end, and God can speak to them from that one verse

    there is no such ''full gospel'' or ''full truth'', anything that isn't straight out of the bible is doctrine. He could do more, but he hasn't denied any part of the bible.
     
  9. Humble Pie

    Humble Pie Veteran

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    Joel Osteen has a calling to stand up for an hour and tell of nothing but the good news that God is doing or is capable of doing in our lives, no interruptions. :clap:
     
  10. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    I refer to something I seen (maybe from that article?). It said anyone can speak wonderful words and be amazing. It doesn't mean they are doing it right.

    Back for a time before my injury I was like Joel. I'd be happy and postive (which is fine of course), but I would avoid talking about the negative. Even one time when a friend told me he was moltesting his little sister. I didn't correct him. I just talked postive (er, about in general, not about what he was doing).

    Many I've met listen to Joel and become like drones. I mentioned it before on here but the guy that lead my parents to the lord and is my parents best friend... well his wife starting listening to Joel. After a few months she called here and asked how we were doing. At the time my dad just had a major surgery so my mom told her "Oh <dads name> just had surgery so hes in some pain but over all we can't complain!".

    Well for whatever reason this lady in a snobby voice told my mom she didn't call to hear about negative stuff. She said you shouldn't have that in your life because thats what Joel told her personally. Mind you this woman was never negative to begin with. SO with that she told my she didn't want to talk if she was going to continue to be negative and she hung up. She hasn't talked to since then (years now).

    Admiteddly he can draw people to God. But what hes doing is both good and bad. Because those who are trying to grow as christians and when life goed bad they end up leaving christianity because they assumed it was this perfect happy life like Joel makes it out to be. Thats the dangerous end of it.

    Then theres the how Joel lives. As that article says Jesus didn't die so Joel can earn a sports car. Its fine if your wealthy but still try to live humbly. He doesn't live humbly. Being rich is part of his "feel good" ministry. I'm sure he will go to heaven like the rest of us. I just don't care for what he does.

    Exactly. Thats what the article was saying at the end. In the end days people will turn to preachers who tell them what they want to hear. As in they don't really want to hear that they should examine their lives or they may be sinning. If Joel said that ALOT of his followers would vanish. People don't have to admit it but alot of christians don't like some biblical truths. They want to believe they are living as pretty much perfect christians.

    You see it alot on this forum when people talk. Just as you see alot of christians who are into that perfectly happy and postive lifestyle that keep turning from God in confusion because they were not taught the whole gospel. Its why I try so hard to help these people. But often they have been lead so far astray that its hard to reach them. It makes me very sad.

    My pastor is great. He talks about everything. The service before Easter during his sermon he looked out to the members and said we are all sinners. Some of us hav issues like addictions, maybe spending to much time with sports then God. We all have some things in our lives we need to fix and work on daily. Those are good messages. If you ever listen to pastor and he says something and you feel guilty...then hes doing it right!

    Not that you should constantly be made to feel guilty of course. But.... if no one makes us think about it at all really, how are we going to examine our lives? We have no basis to do so because we are to busy trying to stay postive and ignoring possilbe issues going on.

    I do not say the following to sound weird but when someone gets to heaven who followed Joel God will say "Why did you not really ever examine your life?".

    You: "Well I was a good person Lord. I stayed positive all the time!".

    God: "Its wonderful you stayed postive my child, but by staying positive how are you going to examine your life? You never listened to preachers who tried to make you think. You just wanted good news."

    You: "But Father I was positive, isn't that what matters really? I stayed up beat, I praised you, I did great works!".

    God: "You sound as if you think maybe you were perfect then?".

    You: "I never listened to bad news, I never shared in talking about negative things!"

    God: "Exactly my child. If you don't talk about the negative to how can see if maybe you needed to work on something? How could you help others then if you yourself didn't want to hear about the negative?"

    You: "But...but Joel told us not to focus on that!"

    God: "But what did I tell you to do in the bible? You were to remain humble, spread my word and realize you are all sinners that always need to exmaine yourselves!"

    I could go on but you get my drift. As I said earlier, we will all go to heaven. But I think those who focus on postive only and don't want to hear what else the bible says are going to be a little confused when God talks to them. Some of my friends and family often quote people like Olsteen. And they do have some great things to say. But thats all they say.

    Olsteen is all about "You" rather then "God". Or as another article says:
    Or perhaps the best quote I've seen:
    And thats very true. It borders on Cathlocism to me. If you act good, you will get good and be rewarded. Look at how many people on this forum don't understand why their prayers aren't being answered. They think God must not love them because of people like Joel who tell you, you can have whatever you want if you just ask. God is not a genie. He does have plans for us but this isn't a game show where the better you are, the more you get.

    At one of the older churches we went to the pastor was a nice guy, he had a relativly nice life, a nice car....etc. He was a great man of God. Well one day he found out he had cancer and he died a year later. Was this because he wasn't being postive enough or not doing enough good? No. It was because it just happens! This is what Olsteen fails to teach people. By living perfect your life will not BE perfect. How are we to have trials if we had perfect lives? How would we grow if we thought we were already perfect?

    If you think about really what he is teaching is to be judgemental. If someone else is having difficulties in life, then you must ignore them because they must be negative. Why else would they be having troubles! >.> :doh:I realize not all of his followers may be like this. But from what I've seen most seem to act like it.
     
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  11. LOCO

    LOCO Church Militant

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    His Prosperity Gospel is a false doctrine. Of course he would preach that being financially wealthy is what God wants, he gets all his income from the audience.

    I don't go to church to be part of the audience of an entertainment 'show' that these tele-evangelists put on, I go to worship Christ.
     
  12. MountainofGod1

    MountainofGod1 Newbie

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    find that many people are living in a false humility and sense of poverty, which is not what we are called for, and they live in opposition to their Christian brothers, instead of living in opposition to the enemy.
     
  13. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    Well said.

    Erm are you saying God doesn't want us to be humble? Perhaps you should see this:
    As for poverty (or more so giving):
     
  14. Humble Pie

    Humble Pie Veteran

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    I've heard similar from a couple of prosperity types - one lady humiliating the poor for being a bad example and another saying she didn't want to be there for her friend because it was negative. Any sane Christian can see this is plain mean.

    On the other hand I don't believe it's Godly to allow people in negativie situations to suck the life and joy the Lord has given you right out of you. The Bible says to "guard your heart for out of it comes the issues of life". We need (Godly) boundaries in our lives.

    tbh I'd be surprised if Joel Osteen did tell this lady what she claimed, having lost his father to illness and knowing grief. Did your mum give her friend reason to lose patience with her?

    Anyway to me at least, Osteen's preaching isn't about getting rich or not having a bad day. Joel even preaches about "seasons of sewing and harvest". To me, he reminds me that God is for me, not against me, it's not to late to have a harvest and that God is my helper.:)

    It's not about money to me at all.:)
     
  15. janny108

    janny108 Well-Known Member

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    I have several devotion books and his is one of them. It does lift me up and there is nothing wrong with being positive as I get depressed sometimes. I listen to others too that give me a more grounded teaching about all aspects of life.
     
  16. SharonL

    SharonL Senior Veteran

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    :thumbsup:
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: - No he is not a false preacher - he does just as you say - he get's them into church and the Holy Spirit will do the rest. Some of the hard nose, podium pounding, shouting preachers turn a lot of people off, some like the calm way that Joel puts out the Word. If the one doing the critizing has a line in Heaven as long as Joel Osteen's then he can say he was right, but Joel will be responsible for thousands and thousands of people finding their way to Heaven. Some say he does not preach Jesus - at the end of every service he ask everyone to ask Jesus into their hearts.
     
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  17. janny108

    janny108 Well-Known Member

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  18. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    I don't really pay him much mind but once I read the article I think we have a similar approach.

    As far as God blessing you taking you from no stability to stable and providing your needs I've been there. I don't think money needs to be taught in church however I do believe that it is possible to be blessed with nice things.

    As far as not preaching the gospel or half gospel I think that just depends on where you are at in your walk. For new Christians or unbelievers I think the power of Christ is a very strong message I think it's stronger then the sinner go to hell message. If I was asked why am I Christian my answer has nothing to do with hell. My answer would be because Jesus Christ is the son of God and He died on the cross for my sins. I think that's what the guy is saying and I don't see anything wrong with that.

    I honestly think people let the negative take over their life. Christians don't want that they want the storefront fire preaching pastor brimstone and flames.....I think using fear as a way to entice believers is what changes Christianity into a religion with traditions and rules that really don't mean much. I was drawn in through the love of Christ not the fear of hell.

    He did say he doesn't say sinner that was kinda off but other then that I didn't see to much wrong.

    The man that wrote that did read Between the lines more then a few times.

    Also anyone professing to be a man of God I don't judge them or say they are false prophets I just don't listen to them. Who knows but God, and I'm not the type to talk down a fellow brother.

    I think people just love negativity and have an issue with how people are being released from bondage not out of fear but out of love.
     
  19. LOCO

    LOCO Church Militant

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    He will tell the masses whatever they want to hear because they give him the $ to justify his false Prosperity Doctrine.

    Of course he is going to sound like a Christian, he has to convince them to part with their hard earned dollars.
     
  20. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    Perhaps people that like him should go see the movie Book Of Eli. Its the perfect example of the bible on two sides. On one side you got someone who truly believe in it and uses it as its to be used. Then you got someone who knows the power of its word and wants to harness that power to make himself rich, powerful...etc.

    The bad guy in that movie reminds me of Joel Olsteen. Anyone can use it and make themselves look good. Its one thing I've always been taught, just because someone looks like a pretty perfect chrsitians doesn't mean they are. You can talk the talk but God knows your motives. And if your a child of God then you should be able to use your discernment and see when someone is doing what Joel is doing.
     
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