Jesus is God says Koran...

[czach8]

Those Jews, Christians, and Sabeans who hear of Islam, the Quran, or Muhammad, whom have been clearly warned but continue to disbelieve in Islam, the Quran and Muhammad as the final Prophet of G-d, and die in their disbelief their reward will be Jahannam, some will aventually be taken out but others will remain permanently especially those who practiced "Shirk".

So then, what is the difference between the Torah and the Quran? Peace.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

So then, what is the difference between the Torah and the Quran? Peace.

Quran supercedes and aborgates the Torah.

 

[français]

Hello oxy2hydro -

I always love to hear from a knowledgeable muslim, and you are by far the most intelligible muslim I have met online (which says a lot, because I have spoken to a TON of muslims online!)

I was wondering if I can ask you a few questions? Not a whole lot..


1. What about atheists/agnostics? Do they go to hell? If so, is it eternal according to your religion? I have gotten a lot of mixed answers from muslims on this.. Some say it is eternal, others do not.

2. There are very few muslims who believe in the authenticity of the Torah and Gospels. But, I know some that have. Do you believe that the Torah and Gospel are corrupted?

3. What do you mean by supersedes and abrogates Torah?

 

[czach8]

Quran supercedes and aborgates the Torah.

I understand Quran abrogates the Torah. However brother, what is the difference in it's message and content?

 

[ApplePie7]

Quran supercedes and aborgates the Torah.

Where do the authors of the Koran state this...?

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

1. What about atheists/agnostics? Do they go to hell? If so, is it eternal according to your religion? I have gotten a lot of mixed answers from muslims on this.. Some say it is eternal, others do not.

If a pubescent human being dies disbelieving in G-d ie The Supreme being that created all that exists etc. including his/herself after they have been warned or have been made aware of the existence of G-d willfully or wantonly, from my understand, yes they will go to Jahannam.

When someone rejects that G-d exists, they worship something else directly or indrectly, knowingly or unknowingly which more than likely will be themselves, women, money, car etc. This of course will be regarded as Shirk.

2. There are very few muslims who believe in the authenticity of the Torah and Gospels. But, I know some that have. Do you believe that the Torah and Gospel are corrupted?

Yes, in more sense changed due to traditional interpolations as they became exposed to other cultures and beliefs.

3. What do you mean by supersedes and abrogates Torah?

• It supersedes it in authority of ruling or decision in religious, political, judicial, or civil affairs
• It abrogates whatever was prohibited or not prohibited as to the adherence of law

 

[ApplePie7]

• It supersedes it in authority of ruling or decision in religious, political, judicial, or civil affairs
• It abrogates whatever was prohibited or not prohibited as to the adherence of law

Brother Dimitri,

Where do the authors of the Koran state this...?

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

I understand Quran abrogates the Torah. However brother, what is the difference in it's message and content?

When we speak in most cases of the Torah we are strickly talking about the laws not the Tanakh of the first five book attributed to Moses.

I do not know how to explain the difference without having to write a book. This is something that has to be studied and compared on a personal lvl to which I do not have the time to invest.

 

[ApplePie7]

When we speak in most cases of the Torah we are strickly talking about the laws not the Tanakh of the first five book attributed to Moses.

I do not know how to explain the difference without having to write a book. This is something that has to be studied and compared on a personal lvl to which I do not have the time to invest.

In other words, there is NO scriptural basis for this islamic tenant.

 

[czach8]

I do not know how to explain the difference without having to write a book. This is something that has to be studied and compared on a personal lvl to which I do not have the time to invest.

That is the thing brother, there is no difference to write about. Allah is the same as before, as in now, and forever into the future, correct?

Peace.

 

[ApplePie7]

Another Koranic ayah promoting Jesus Christ as God Almighty.


Here is an ayah that was stripped from the pages of Revelation…



وإنه على ذلك لشهيد

Wa-innahu AAala dhalika lashaheedun

100.7 And certainly Him for the sake of this witness.




Summary of 100.7:

• John informs us that Jesus is the Faithful and True Witness, three separate times in the opening chapter of Revelation
• Jesus is called a Witness once by the word “martus”, and twice by the word “marturia”
• Jesus confirms this as truth by making the same statement about Himself
• 100.7 is a continuation of 100.6, via the copulative conjunction “wa”, (and)
• 100.6 established the precedence that mankind must repent to his Lord
• 100.7 continues upon what was previously stated and informs us of an attribute of the Lord that must be repented to
• “Inna”, being a corroborative particle, supports with authority the predicate, or that He is a witness (shaheedun)
• “He” being the Lord as established in 100.6
• The Lord is a Witness
• To further confirm this, a survey of all the usages of “shaheedun” in the Koran overwhelmingly confirms that this term is applied to deity
• Interestingly, the authors of the Koran apply this term in the following manner…

1. To Jesus
2. To Lord
3. To “allah”

• By applying this same term freely to all three of these, the authors of the Koran are confirming that Jesus is indeed Deity.
• Jesus is God
• Jesus is the Lord that mankind repents to as described in 100.6
• Further, by affixing “allah” to this same term, the authors of the Koran have once again attempted to cloak their god with Deity previously ascribed unto Jesus in Revelation
• Additionally, it should be noted that “shaheedun” also bears the meaning “a star (applicable when present); as being present and apparent in the night”, further signifying that Jesus is being referenced

 

[Raul7]

Then how do you explain this:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75)

Get over it, your theory holds no water.

 

[ApplePie7]

Then how do you explain this:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75)

Get over it, your theory holds no water.

5.75 does nothing to deny Jesus' deity. That is why the translators had to add in the words "no more than"...."as other mortals do"...as they do not appear in the Arabic.

 

[ApplePie7]

More Koranic evidence from sura 100, that Jesus is God Almighty...


وحصل ما في الصدور

wahussila ma fee alssudoori

100.10 And it became realized on account of the heart.




Summary of 100.10:

• Jesus tells us in Revelation that He searches (ereunao) the heart (kardia) of mankind
• Further, Jesus also states that He gives to each according to their works
• By stating these things, Jesus is proclaiming Himself as God Almighty
• 100.10 is a continuation of 100.9, via the copulative conjunction “wa” (and)
• 100.10 further extends yet another attribute of the Lord (i.e. Jesus) by juxtaposing the word “hussila” which means it became realized
• What is realized is “fee”, on account of the heart (alsudoori)
• Jesus searches the heart
• Jesus knows the heart
• Further, observing the usages of “alsudoori” & “alssudooru” in the Koran, shows an overwhelming usage in respect to “allah” knowing the heart
• The Koran also states that the Lord knows the heart
• That the Lord forgives and knows the heart
• The authors of the Koran are point blank stating that Jesus is God, same as the Book of Revelation
• Observe that in 100.7 - 100.10, the authors of the Koran have copied Jesus’ deity attributes from two of the Assemblies:

1. Ephesian
2. Smyrna
3. Pergamos
4. Thyatira
5. Sardis
6. Philadelphia
7. Laodicea

 

[sur]

http://foru.ms/t6027996-lets-eat-apple-pie.html

All crippled-tricks that AppliPie7 has been trying to play have been sufficiently exposed by original scans of dictionaries he was deceitfully refering-to.
http://foru.ms/t6027996-lets-eat-apple-pie.html





So it's my request to muslims to stop replying to his faked material which even reasonable christians don't believe-in.

[Qur'aan:15:3] Leave them alone, to enjoy and to please themselves: let false hope amuse them: soon will they acknowledge.




This person acting like Arabic scholar can't even read Arabic properly as you would see in above thread.

 

[ApplePie7]

All crippled-tricks that AppliPie7 has been trying to play have been sufficiently exposed by original scans of dictionaries he was deceitfully refering-to.
http://foru.ms/t6027996-lets-eat-apple-pie.html

You sound defeated...brother sur...

So it's my request to muslims to stop replying to his faked material which even reasonable christians don't believe-in.

Does this mean that you disagree with the authors who penned your book of faith...?

This person acting like Arabic scholar can't even read Arabic properly as you would see in above thread.

Do you require help in reading a Lexicon...or, is it more fun to take it out of context like you do with your "scriptures"....?

Since you cannot refute any of these ayahs, then you will just have to accept that the Koran proclaims Jesus as God Almighty.

This is just the way that it is....

 

[Raul7]

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." (Qur'an 5:17)

And in Arabic pronunciation: 'Laqad kafarah al-lathee qala inama Allahoo howa al-Messiah ibn Maryam.'

Meaning those who claim Jesus the son of Mary is God are a form of disbelievers.

 

[ApplePie7]

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." (Qur'an 5:17)

And in Arabic pronunciation: 'Laqad kafarah al-lathee qala inama Allahoo howa al-Messiah ibn Maryam.'

Meaning those who claim Jesus the son of Mary is God are a form of disbelievers.

Specifically, which Arabic word denies Jesus' deity...?

 

[ApplePie7]

More Koranic ayahs proclaiming Jesus' divinity...

قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدينسبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما

يصفونفذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم​

Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu

Say: "Indeed on account of the most Merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the Lord (of) the heavens and the earth, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. (43.81 – 84)



These ayahs proclaim that the Son is worshiped directly as deity.

They also proclaim that the Son is God, not only upon the earth, but in the Cloud upon which he returns...just as copied from the Holy Bible...

 

[sur]

u've already proved many times over & over again that how poor is ur Arabic, still u think ppl r not convinced.
I gaurantee u ppl r already convinced so lay-off.


Let me help u further in ur attempts to expose ur poor Arabic:-


Here's the right translation of part of verse which Applepie7 mistranslated to trick u & later i've posted scan from Lane's Lexicon with word in-kaana & it's use ( in RED box in attachement below):-
قل say
إن كان If be

للرحمن For Rahman(Most Gracious)
ولد son

So right translation would be:-
[43:81] Say: "If there be a son for Most Gracious(Rahman), I would be the first to worship."[82] Pure is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne from the things they attribute![83] So leave them to babble and play (with vanities) until they meet that Day of theirs, which they have been promised.[84] It is He Who is God in heaven and God on earth; and He is full of Wisdom and Knowledge.

ApplePie7 mistranslated إن كان & true translation of word (inn) is attached under, from William Lane's Lexicon & it's use with word (kaana) is in example; see RED box:-(Applepie7 on purpose confused translation of word (in) with word (innaa))