اتخذوا أحبارهم ورهبنهم أربابا من دون الله
والمسيح ابن مريم وما أمروا إلا ليعبدوا إلها
وحدا لا إله إلا هو سبحنه عما يشركون
Ittakhathoo ahbarahum waruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseeha ibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahan wahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahu AAamma yushrikoona
well...why not...a refutation of this guy is easy enough
notice the words in green.
now, this person applepie claims to be a master at Quranic exegesis, over and above the hundreds of thousands of Islamic scholars from 632ce to right now in 2007ce.
First thing to understand is that not only is the Qur'an written, but it is memorized. So with that in mind it should be easy to see that while applepie claims that later muslims added punctuation to the Arabic text of the Qur'an, he neglected to mention that he also added punctuation to his translation without providing the reader with the exegetical and hermenetical tools he used to arrive at his conclusion. Could it be that his interpretation disagrees with the muslims who have memorized the Qur'an and kept it safe in their hearts, minds, souls?
Second, notice in the Arabic translation the second highlighted part negates what applepie is trying to purport. confused? well, unless we are admitting contradiction here, let me be more clear. The first highlighted part in the transliteration equates Allah(swt) with al-Masih(as), according to applepie. Notice that the use of two signifies two. Notice,the next highlighted part states that we were commanded to worship one Allah. Who is Allah here, since the ayah has just previously mentioned two persons here? Since "christians" have no problem with Allah being three, maybe they also have no problem with him being two. Nay! The ayah clearly says that Allah(swt) is ONE.
Well, other verses of the Qur'an clearly identify the difference between Allah(swt) and Masih(as). Maybe applepie missed them?
9.31 They have taken their learned persons and their monks (as) lordsfromsuperior (to) “allah” and The Messiah, Mary's Son; and they commanded not except that they may worship one god, no god except He (no god except who?), glory be to Him (maybe applepie missed the part about the word Subhana referring to Allah(swt) and not Jesus(as))
from what they associate partners.
Look at the transltion here by applepie and tell me this makes sense to you? note the highlighted words.
Observe that “allah” is included along with The Messiah, Jesus Christ, via the copulative conjunction “wa”, as being part and parcel of the prepositional phrase initiating with “min” (from).
Further, although "allah" and Jesus are listed separately, they are treated as ONE...via the singular "huwa" (him)... .
See above for the negation that comes after them being listed "as one, as applepie says", instead of being listed together, as other normal human beings understand
This is the same exact method as used in the Holy Bible in many locations that proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ...and, as such, the authors of the Koran have also copied this over into their opus.
Notice the other posts and see how loathe applepie is to prove this assertion with actual, verifiable scholarly documentation.
The difference being that they have attempted to raise the pagan Arab god "allah" up to the Biblical deity status of Jesus Christ.
Can anyone say Dr. Morey?!! Care to offer for us the definition of pagan applepie?
You will see the modern English translators deceitfully butchering this text by inserting all sorts of add-on-words in parenthesis – in order to make this ayah conform to the Islamic paradigm.
notice that i did not resort to insertions and add-on words in parenthesis.
Fact of the matter is that this ayah proclaims Jesus Christ as God Almighty.
non sequitur par excellence
Furthermore, in keeping with a style of argumentation that is fond of selective reading applepie has neglected(purposefully?) to show us full context. I doubt he understands context since he would know that full context involves the full text not a piece(ayah) of the text.
Take notice of this ayah from the Qur'an:
Qur'an 9:30
Arabic (from right to left):‏9:30[FONT="] وقالت اليهود عزير ابن الله وقالت النصارى المسيح ابن الله ذلك قولهم بافواههم ويضاهئون قول الذين كفروا من قبل قاتلهم الله انى يؤفكون [/FONT]
Transliteration:
[009:030] Waqalati alyahoodu AAuzayrun ibnu Allahi waqalati alnnasara almaseehuibnu Allahi thalika qawluhum bi-afwahihim yudahi-oona qawla allatheena kafaroo min qablu qatalahumu Allahu anna yu/fakoona
Yusuf Ali:
[009:030] The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Dr. Munir Munshey
[009:030] The Jews said, “Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah”, and the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of Allah.” These are (nothing but mere) words that escape their lips. They just (ape and) echo the words of the unbelievers of earlier times. Allah’s curse is upon them! How (easily) are they being deceived!Sher Ali:
[009:030] And the Jews say, `Ezra is the son of ALLAH,' and the Christians say, `the Messiah is the son of ALLAH;' that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. ALLAH's curse be on them ! How they are turned away.
Shakir:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Pickthall:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
Sale:
[009:030] The Jews say, Ezra is the son of God: And the Christians say Christ is the son of God. They say this (only) with their mouths: They imitate the saying of those who were unbelievers in former times. May God curse them (literally: fight against them)! How can they be so infatuated?
Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allahs Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
Palmer:
[009:030] The Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of God; that is what they say with their mouths, imitating the sayings of those who misbelieved before.- God fight them! how they lie!
Arberry:
[009:030] The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God'; the Christians say, 'The Messiah is the Son of God.' That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted!
Khalifa:
[009:030] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.
Rodwell:
[009:030] The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided!
Now read the rest of the Qur'an to get the fuller picture!
i think that is enough for now.
Wallahu A'lam
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 07:20 pm Post subject: First & Last... First and Last, Koran: (57:1-4) 
