Is the Church Raptured in Revelation 4

BABerean2

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Only getting to part of your message as I'm signing off for a bit.
The two witnesses prophesy. Do you think they preach the same message?
What churches all have the same message or even all prophesy? The two
witnesses bring plagues and won't be slain till many from the church are
already slain by the beast. The two dead witnesses will lie in one particular
city - Jerusalem -not all over the world. The wicked will send gifts to each other
in celebration and their fake happy time will only last a few days, because
sudden destruction will come upon them. The third woe cometh quickly.
/7th trumpet/earthquake-the same hour when the two witnesses rise//at the
resurrection of the just.

The members of the first century Church often went out to preach the Gospel in pairs.

If we are not all preaching the same Gospel, then there is a problem, and it is a problem these days.
We have many different denominations and sects, who are not preaching the New Testament Gospel.

The reference to Sodom and Egypt in Rev. 11:8 may also mean the city is being used as a symbol of the world system, which celebrates the persecution of those who are witnessing.



Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The description of the plagues in Revelation chapter 11, are clearly a reference to the events of the Exodus.
However, we know Moses cannot be one of the witnesses, because he is dead.
Therefore, this should at least open up the possibility that the witnesses are symbolic
.
 
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Berean777

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The symbol of the law and the prophets are all those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ and interpret it and preach it into the world according to the many tongues of the other nations.

Jeremiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Joel 2:28
And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

Romans 2:14
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

The symbol of Moses and Elijah shown on the mount of transfiguration to the disciples, where they were to tell no man until Jesus came and breathed on them the Holy Ghost and commissioned them in twos into every town in the great commission as the two symbolic witnesses who represent the law and the prophets.

The born again Christians are the walking law and the prophets.
 
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Berean777

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Notice the testimony of the two symbolic witnesses needs to be finished before the end comes and their message must be the everlasting gospel message.

Matthew 24:14 (ASV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

The end comes when the sixth seal signals the coming of Satan as the earthly messiah. Earthly Israel today is built up for Lucifer aka devil, whereas Daniel's 70th week was pre 70AD Jerusalem built up in troubled times for the true messiah.

You have two comings the first coming when Jerusalem is built up for the true messiah pre 70AD and the second coming is when Jerusalem is built up for satan to come as the Jewish messiah. Remembering that the Jewish nation who rejects Jesus today will consider the coming of a future messiah as the first coming and so rejecting the path (CHARA) of salvation by the cross that removed the curse of the mosaic law, that said we all must be put to death.

The first coming of satan as messiah will signal the end of the preaching of the gospel message and the martyrdom of the true church of Christ. The remaining elect will run for their lives and be helped, yet as far as the gospel is concerned it stops when this counterfeit enemy comes and the daily sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins that was posted on the cross at Calvary is removed and replaced by the mother of all living idols Lucifer.
 
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Berean777

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The true messiah comes after the day of the Lord and sounds the trumpet of God which is the seventh trumpet and he declares time no longer.

At this point the first heaven and earth are dissolved by the fire that consumes it and every human being and the beast of the earth has died.

If a physical messiah manifests before the day of the Lord then you have the counterfeit of the genuine article. Since we cannot come before the risen Lord unless we first die then be raised. Therefore any manifestation of earthly messiah is the counterfeit, whether he be the first or the tenth.
 
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Berean777

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Zechariah 4:11 - 5:2
Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

The two witnesses characteristics:

1) two olive trees that stand on the
left and right of the candlestick
2) two olive branches symbolising PEACE
3) two golden pipes that empty golden oil of SALVATION
4) two anointed that stand by the Lord of the whole earth
5) they are commissioned to minister from the heavenly flying scroll



Go to Revelation of John which is an open letter from the Lord addressing the seven churches:

1)
Revelation 1:12-13
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the MIDST of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

2)
Revelation 1:20 - 2:1
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

It is clear that in Zechariah the seven candlesticks that are called the seven lamps are the seven churches spoken of in:

Zechariah 4:2
And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Pipe symbolises pathway and seven pipes empty out the golden oil of salvation through the preaching of what is written in the heavenly flying scroll.

3)

Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

The throne in Revelation is the symbol of the bowl in Zechariah.

Zechariah 4:2
And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

What are these seven lamps doing that pour out the golden oil through the power of the seven Spirits of God that go to and fro in all the earth?

Zechariah 4:10
For who hath despised the day of small things?
for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven;
they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Again what does Revelation of John say about these seven lamps/candlesticks?

Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What is being preached that enables the seven lamps to pour out the golden oil from the throne/bowl of God by the great commission of the two anointed ones that symbolise the law and the prophets?

The everlasting gospel that is the flying scroll from heaven that Zechariah saw and we know that when this message of salvation that is symbolised by the colour gold comes into a house, if the house does not accept it, it will be a curse to that household.

Zechariah 5:3-4
Then said he unto me,
This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth:
for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it;
and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts,
and it shall enter into the house of the thief,
and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name:
and it shall remain in the midst of his house,
and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

These are the exact same words that Jesus said in regards to the household that rejects the message that he imparted onto his disciples when he sent them in every town in twos to preach the everlasting gospel of peace and to pour out the golden oil of salvation.

Matthew 10:13-15
And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

It is inconceivable that those members belonging to the body of Christ who minister and prophesy from the everlasting gospel in all the world are empowered by the Holy Spirit to reign down fire upon those who reject the gospel message by virtue of what Zechariah prophesied and Jesus said will happen. Offcourse they are not directly raining down fire upon the enemies of the gospel, but they are heaping on the heads of those who reject the peace offering from God, so that will God totally annihilate them without mercy.
 
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Berean777

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The flying scroll is a curse going over the
earth, not flying in heaven. It will enter into
the house, llllkingdom being built in Shinar.

Shinar earned this curse since the days of
Babylon.

That is true it came down from heaven and it is finding its way around the world. This is the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ that God brought forth with the shoutings of grace grace be onto it. This message when it enters a house, if it is rejected it will bring that house under God's curse and the result of that house rejecting the peace offering from God will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city that rejected that message.
 
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Berean777

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You see you are missing the point here, because those things that were physically done in the Old Testament like the building of the temple, like the 24 judges, like the high priest, like king David etc were all types and shadows of the greater things to come once Messiah appeared on the scene.

You see the old covenant saints were living in obedience to the Word of instruction telling them to build this and do that and name this person such and such.

For example:

Isaiah 22:20-24
In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah.
21I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 23I will drive him like a peg into a firm place; he will become a seat of honor for the house of his father. 24All the glory of his family will hang on him: its offspring and offshoots—all its lesser vessels, from the bowls to all the jars.


Even Eliakim son of Hilkiah was a type and shadow of the greater man Jesus Christ who would come who will have the key of David as declared in Revelation of John, who is able to open doors that no one can shut; and close doors that no man can open. All Old Testament names and functions even king David took the acting role in place of the Messiah to come. It is like an employee filling in for his boss before his boss comes back in the position that was always his to begin with. All these old covenant saints acted in those position and followed the letter of the word/instruction given to them to the teeth. Their actions became the testimony of the living word that now lives in us.

Much of the Old Testament events, even though they be literal, they followed the WORD OF INSTRUCTION being played out, right down to the circumcision. These were all types and shadows of a greater spiritual Kingdom and a Greater King that will come onto the scene to take that honour that was awaiting for him alone to take. That is why Jesus stated to the Jews that all the scriptures testify of him, meaning every event being played out and every detail right down to meaning and function of the name, whether he be king David, Hezekiah, or even Eliakim played out the WORD OF INSTRUCTION, as a prelude to the living word coming onto the scene. That is why the old covenant saints were called servants of God.

However once Jesus came and ascended up into glory the WORD OF INSTRUCTION became the living WORD IN ALL. This new plan, new everlasting covenant, then was projected from the old temple worship that was outward in worship, to the more HOLY and sanctified temple that is THE inward temple of the body that the Holy Ghost dwells in. So it goes to show that shouting of Grace Grace in Zechariah 4 was being played out outwardly to a physical temple in Jeruslem back in the old covenant days, yet today in the new covenant days it is being played out spiritually in people's minds and hearts. True worshippers no longer look towards an outward temple for worship and sacrifice, but rather worship God in the Spirit as Jesus said and the circumcision becomes that inwardly of the heart and not outwardly of the flesh. The law becomes inward of the heart and not outward in the letter of the word, which is instruction according to Deuteronomy.

So we as citizens to the better Heavenly and spiritual Kingdom are being made in the image of the Son and the flying scroll mentioned in Zechariah that came out and found its way around the earth/world, was by the letter of the word/instruction in the old covenant days, but in the new covenant age it is an open letter from the heart containing the word (testimony of Jesus Christ), that has the law and the prophets tied to it and therefore that faithful becomes the living temple of God and walks around the earth having in his heart and mind the living scroll of God that he brought forth to be spread into every home encompassing the globe.

So everything literally done as instruction in the Old Testament pointed to a greater plan of salvation that was awaiting mankind, when Jesus Christ came on the seen as the true Elikiam and the true heir to the seat of King David, then he opened the flood gates to all of humanity to be called the sons and daughters of God.

I hope that you can see that our interpretation of scripture cannot be a literal manifestation of prophesy outwardly. Many that take Old Testament prophesies and apply them outwardly miss the point completely. The Old Testament is the word of instruction to what essentially is the word of God living in us. To God we become the revelation and realisation of the word and his kingdom to God to the world, because Jesus no longer called us servants to follow the word of instruction, necessitating instruction by letter, rather the Kingdom of God lives in us and we become the flying scroll that God puts forth into the world for the world to behold and listen to. Which is why Jesus called us brothers and sisters and heirs to the Kingdom of promise. That promise of God is fulfilled in us and in countless who have departed to be with the Lord.

As far as God is concerned about the world, we Christians are it, we hold the keys to his Kingdom in us and if we are removed from the world then God destroys all life on earth. The Christain is the life line to the world and if that life line to God be destroyed, then the enemy destroys its self, therefore the enemy commits suicide.

True Christians are the symbol of the two witnesses and if the world doesn't hear their testimony then it becomes like the flying scroll, that is a curse onto them and they will be utterly destroyed by God at the appointed time. When satan comes as the earthly messiah, he will and has already tried to destroy the church by wars, gays and all sorts of wars being spiritually waged and when satan manages to push the church out of the way, then all hell breaks out on earth, mark my words.
 
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