Is Salvation By Works or Faith? How Do You Achieve Faith?

[Wordkeeper]

http://faithalone.org/journal/1997ii/Wilkin.html


Dr. R. C. Sproul is a very articulate spokesman for the view that assurance is not certainty. A few years back he described his own struggles with assurance, and in so doing he explained his view of assurance:

There are people in this world who are not saved, but who are convinced that they are. The presence of such people causes genuine Christians to doubt their salvation. After all, we wonder, suppose I am in that category? Suppose I am mistaken about my salvation and am really going to hell? How can I know that I am a real Christian?

A while back I had one of those moments of acute self-awareness that we have from time to time, and suddenly the question hit me: "R.C., what if you are not one of the redeemed? What if your destiny is not heaven after all, but hell?" Let me tell you that I was flooded in my body with a chill that went from my head to the bottom of my spine. I was terrified. I tried to grab hold of myself. I thought, "Well, it's a good sign that I'm worried about this. Only true Christians really care about salvation."

But then I began to take stock of my life, and I looked at my performance. My sins came pouring into my mind, and the more I looked at myself, the worse I felt. I thought, "Maybe it's really true. Maybe I'm not saved after all." I went to my room and began to read the Bible. On my knees I said, "Well, here I am. I can't point to my obedience. There's nothing I can offer. I can only rely on Your atonement for my sins. I can only throw myself on Your mercy." Even then I knew that some people only flee to the Cross to escape hell, not out of a real turning to God. I could not be sure about my own heart and motivation.

Then I remembered John 6:68. Jesus had been giving out hard teaching, and many of His former followers had left Him. When He asked Peter if he was also going to leave, Peter said, "Where else can I go? Only You have the words of eternal life." In other words, Peter was also uncomfortable, but he realized that being uncomfortable with Jesus was better than any other option! According to this way of thinking, certainty is not an option. The very best option available is "being uncomfortable with Jesus."



Sproul knew that he was saved if he produced good fruit, since a good tree always produced good fruit. Forced effort produced false fruit. A good work resulting from fear of damnation was false fruit. It wasn't the result of love for God and fellow man.


What Sproul may have forgotten is that bad trees produced not just bad acts but bad thoughts. To hate was as bad as to kill, to lust as bad as to commit adultery.


If you have bad thoughts you're a bad tree.


Paul desired very much to be a good tree. He prayed that all his sins be removed from his life. However, God said His grace was sufficient.



That's a remarkable idea. The passing grade for salvation, being eligible to be used to be a blessing to the world, was to have the grace of God, available by faith, loyalty, belief in what God taught.


And God taught that Christ was saviour, through completing the contract, fulfilling law, paying the penalty for the non performance of mankind. Contracts are closed either by performance or by paying penalties.


Galatians 3:1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[tulipbee]

God instilled in man a sense of justice-we know good and evil when we see it, even in our fallen state where we sometimes compromise our morality or consciences nonetheless. And as Isaiah tells us in Is chap 5, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." And to know God is to know that He can never be the author of sin/evil.

There isn't any place God isn't. You don't want God to be everywhere due to defending your denomination. Putting God in a box and ship him off at your desired location isn't going to work.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

You have to convince Jesus, which is why people need to be careful in how they perceive Christ. That's where you have to start at before getting into any more detail of faith and merits.

 

[tulipbee]

You have to convince Jesus, which is why people need to be careful in how they perceive Christ. That's where you have to start at before getting into any more detail of faith and merits.

Convincing Jesus is the same as works. God drew and gave to Jesus. Convincing isn't required cause you weren't born yet

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Convincing Jesus is the same as works.

No it isn't. That's just one way some people think gives them favor with Christ.

 

[tulipbee]

No it isn't. That's just one way some people think gives them favor with Christ.

All mankind were born not to beg cause they don't want to nor care to. Total depravity rings true. It is God that does the saving so works or self believe is ineffective. All unbelievers don't care to be convinced and it never works on them.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Having answered the question posed by the thread starter about how faith is achieved (faith is loyalty, being in agreement with what God says, and God said Jesus is the savior, having delivered us from the curse of the law, that being portrayed, preached publicly, not secretly, as the result of his crucifixion), it's good to reinforce the thought by studying what faith leads to.

Genesis 1 is the description of the building of a temple:


https://orthodoxruminations.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/genesis-1-is-ancient-cosmology/


Quote

Divine Rest is in a Temple

In the ancient world, as soon as “rest” is mentioned everyone would have known exactly what sort of text this was: gods rest in temples and temples are built so that gods can rest in them. Rest is not a term of disengagement but a term of engagement, i.e., everything is in place now so the deity can take up his place at the helm in the control room of the cosmos and begin operations. Rest throughout the Bible indicates that everything is stable and secure and life and the cosmos may proceed as they were intended.

The Cosmos Is a Temple

In the ancient world and in the Bible, the cosmos was understood to be a gigantic temple (Isa. 66:1), and temples were designed to be a micro-cosmos (see description of the Garden of Eden and the Temple vision of Ezekiel; there is symbolism in the tabernacle/temple furniture and décor). Genesis 1 is portraying cosmic origins in terms that would be recognized as a temple building account.


The last step in the task is to install an image of the deity, the function of which is to reveal to the world the nature of the deity:


Genesis 1:26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”


By manifesting God's image to the world, the world can worship Him, thus completing creation:


Romans 8:19:For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.



This revelation of God by his children, stalled by Adam's disobedience, has been brought back on track by the work of Christ on the cross.


Salvation is then confirmed in us when we who are empowered to show the Father to the world actually begin to do exactly that:


2 Corinthians 12:7Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[Neochristian]

Nah, man. Salvation results in works of faith.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All mankind were born not to beg cause they don't want to nor care to. Total depravity rings true. It is God that does the saving so works or self believe is ineffective. All unbelievers don't care to be convinced and it never works on them.

When ever is belief non effectived? Faith and belief are the two things needed for salvatikn!

 

[Neochristian]

Self-Belief and God-Belief are two different things here.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You have to convince Jesus, which is why people need to be careful in how they perceive Christ. That's where you have to start at before getting into any more detail of faith and merits.

This is not true. We do not have to convince Christ. We come to Him in faith, Christ does the rest.

 

[Neochristian]

You have to convince Jesus, which is why people need to be careful in how they perceive Christ. That's where you have to start at before getting into any more detail of faith and merits.

What do you mean by convincing Christ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Self-Belief and God-Belief are two different things here.

What the heck is God-belief? Please explain in detail and include scripture.

 

[Neochristian]

By "God-Belief" I mean belief in God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

By "God-Belief" I mean belief in God.

What is self-beleif then and what does it have to do with belief in God?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

What do you mean by convincing Christ?

Christ is either one's savior or one's judge. People hear much about one of those and not the other.

 

[Neochristian]

What is self-beleif then and what does it have to do with belief in God?

You'll have to ask Tulipbee, but I assume Self-Belief is belief in oneself (as capable of providing salvation).

 

[ToBeLoved]

Christ is either one's savior or one's judge. People hear much about one of those and not the other.

That is a bad phrase to use 'convincing Christ'.

I think your defintion is a good phrase. It shows the difference between a believer and a non-believer.

 

[Neochristian]

Christ is either one's savior or one's judge. People hear much about one of those and not the other.

But in John 12:47, doesn't Christ say, "If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world"? Or was he speaking about something/someone else?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

But in John 12:47, doesn't Christ say, "If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world"? Or was he speaking about something/someone else?

In Revelation, Christ is sitting on the White Throne which is an explicit judgement seat. This is the side of Christ that the wicked will not see as being their savior, but a holy judge on the Right Hand of God.

The context of the passage you mention is about his general mission in coming to Earth. He didn't come to condemn, but to give life. It isn't about the final reckoning, however. Ultimately, when Christ returns he isn't going to be simply the humble man from Nazareth, he's going to be God in full blast.