Is homosexuality wrong in Christainity?

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Whitestone

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prestonw said:
Leviticus says a lot of things that are not in use today. For example, we are currently allowed to remarry after a divorce ,while Leviticus strictly prohibts that. It goes on to say death should be given to anyone that does. You cannot take one verse and say it applies while ignoring others. That would make you a hypocrite.


Some christian churches will hold gay marriages. In which case they are married and your point is invalid. A civil marriage and a religous marriage are two separate things.

Just two things, It was much easier to divorce under old testament laws than new testament ones. If a church is willing to marry people of the same sex, they are not a biblicly based church hence one that is teaching false doctrine, which in my understanding is worse than same sex marriages.

If I am saying contrary to what the bible says please let me know.

Whitestone
 
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Is homosexuality wrong in Christainity?

Definately not, in my opinion anyways. If you love a person, you love a person, their race or sex should not matter. If you dont support someone because of their sex, you are just being racist to the gender. I support Gay Marriages!
 
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DidiCh

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sweetlambofgod said:
Is homosexuality wrong in Christainity?

Definately not, in my opinion anyways. If you love a person, you love a person, their race or sex should not matter. If you dont support someone because of their sex, you are just being racist to the gender. I support Gay Marriages!
I find it rather hard to believe that someone that claims to be "Christian" can possibly support something that God clearly states is sin.

I'm not saying not to love everyone, but you must love all through Gods love and be the light of the world, not join the world!

If it comes to the case where it is "OK" to support homosexuality and gay marriages, etc, just because we do not want to take the risk of being classified as "sexist" or "racist to the gender" then how can we not take into account and support all other sins that are also clearly mentioned in the Bible?

When the church begins to violate Paul's admonishment to "teach no other doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3) then we begin to see the results of such accomodation within the Christian culture. Easy divorce, adultry, theistic evolution (which attempts to mix the theories of Darwin with the Scripture, false teaching, sexual immorality, abortion, and the acceptance of homosexuality are all symptoms of cultural accomodation and a weakend view of the Scripture.

I think the world, especially those who call themselves believers, are in desperate need of God and mostly in need of guidance from the Holy Spirit. We should be doing everything we can to draw near to God and to resemble His righteousness.

I pray that God may reveal to you the Truth of His Word and give you understanding so that you may become a true disciple.
 
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prestonw

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DidiCh said:
I find it rather hard to believe that someone that claims to be "Christian" can possibly support something that God clearly states is sin.
First off, gay marriage doesn't not refer to opening up all of the Christian churches to gay marriages. In the U.S., we have the freedom to be in any religous group we wish. Marriages are honored from all religous groups, not just Christian ones. Marriage in this sense refers to a governmental license to certain benifits. Nothing else. If you want to disallow gay marriages in your church, you are more then welcome to. It does not interfere with your life or your religion AT ALL! This is more of a human rights issue then a religous one...
 
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kdet

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DidiCh said:
I find it rather hard to believe that someone that claims to be "Christian" can possibly support something that God clearly states is sin.

I'm not saying not to love everyone, but you must love all through Gods love and be the light of the world, not join the world!

If it comes to the case where it is "OK" to support homosexuality and gay marriages, etc, just because we do not want to take the risk of being classified as "sexist" or "racist to the gender" then how can we not take into account and support all other sins that are also clearly mentioned in the Bible?

When the church begins to violate Paul's admonishment to "teach no other doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3) then we begin to see the results of such accomodation within the Christian culture. Easy divorce, adultry, theistic evolution (which attempts to mix the theories of Darwin with the Scripture, false teaching, sexual immorality, abortion, and the acceptance of homosexuality are all symptoms of cultural accomodation and a weakend view of the Scripture.

I think the world, especially those who call themselves believers, are in desperate need of God and mostly in need of guidance from the Holy Spirit. We should be doing everything we can to draw near to God and to resemble His righteousness.

I pray that God may reveal to you the Truth of His Word and give you understanding so that you may become a true disciple.
Amen, wonderful post:clap:
 
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Faith In God

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prestonw said:
First off, gay marriage doesn't not refer to opening up all of the Christian churches to gay marriages. In the U.S., we have the freedom to be in any religous group we wish. Marriages are honored from all religous groups, not just Christian ones. Marriage in this sense refers to a governmental license to certain benifits. Nothing else. If you want to disallow gay marriages in your church, you are more then welcome to. It does not interfere with your life or your religion AT ALL! This is more of a human rights issue then a religous one...
But the OP is "Is homosexuality wrong in Christianity?" In this case, the answer is yes. duh. God had the Israelites (back "in the day") execute homosexuals.
 
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prestonw

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butxifxnot said:
But the OP is "Is homosexuality wrong in Christianity?" In this case, the answer is yes. duh. God had the Israelites (back "in the day") execute homosexuals.
He also had the Israelites execute someone that picked up wood on the Sabbath day. I don't think picking up wood on the Sabbath day is a horrible sin anymore. The OT law has passed, we must follow Jesus' teachings now.
 
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prestonw said:
He also had the Israelites execute someone that picked up wood on the Sabbath day. I don't think picking up wood on the Sabbath day is a horrible sin anymore. The OT law has passed, we must follow Jesus' teachings now.
Okay, then listen to His disciples in the NT, where they condemn the practice.

It is still a perversion in the sight of God and will be judged.
 
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Vag4

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I hope I do not offend any homosexuals, but I think it's not allowed. As we all can read in Romans 1 25-28

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

The bible clearly speaks over something vile. I therefor think its a sin. Furthermore. If God wanted us to be homosexual, wouldn't have just created 2 man, instead of Adam and Eve?
 
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artybloke

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find it rather hard to believe that someone that claims to be "Christian" can possibly support something that God clearly states is sin.

It's quite easy really. We read the same Bible as you do; however, we don't presume that what it says in an English translation of a 2000 years and more old collection of writings is directly applicable to today, without learning a lot more about the historical/religious/literary context of the original text than most fundamentalists deem necessary. Once we discover, for instance, that there is no reference to homosexual practice in the OT or the NT that is unconnected to pagan Temple prostitution, or other forms of pagan worship, we begin to question the universality of one particular interpretation.

One thing we never do is assume that our interpretation of the Bible is the only possible one; nor do we justify our own hatreds and prejudices by referencing the Bible.

Of course, it's so much easier to avoid thinking by just accepting what you're told, isn't it? that's what's known as "cheap grace."
 
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mpshiel

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I am NOT going to talk about Rom 1
I am NOT going to talk about translators and greek words.

I think sometimes we get so obsessed on a particular branch that we forget about the forest all together.

I look at the New Testament and I ask myself - what is the overwhelming message of Jesus? And I would have to say from the actions and word of Jesus it is an overwhelming sense of love for human beings. A desire to treat another with compassion. And when Jesus prays in John 16, he asks that the spirit be in us as the Father was in him, as well as he in us. To me this means that we see the world as Jesus would.

What was sin to Jesus? Was it rules? Was it a series of commands? Because those who support obsessing on the purity of rules should note that Jesus was executed, and rightly so, by the book. The fact that He actual WAS the son of God doesn't discount that for anyone else it would have been blasphemy and thus worthy of death. So did those who execute Jesus do the right thing by acting on the rules or the wrong thing, by rejecting the evidence of the spirit?

Jesus says that sin is in the mind, not in the rules. Paul goes on to point out twice (including in Gal 5) that we are free from the law or as St. Augustine put it: If we love God we are free to do whatever we please (for what we please is following God). Some have the idea that it is in turning over everything to God that is right, so thus a homosexual relationship must be wrong because it is of lust and not God. Yet again Paul illustrates in the start of Eph 6 that we are not to throw down work because it distracts us from God or relationships but rather take the spirit of God into that relationship.

What a person in a homosexual relations needs to ask then is: Is the presence of God here in this relationship. Do I fear God or welcome Him to our home? As God puts to Peter in Acts - God is the one that determines what is clean and unclean - not even Peter, who was the rock on which the church was built got to overrule God. The disciples/apostles at the ressurection of Christ KNEW what to do: proclaim the messiah and keep the law. Did they envision a time in the near future when they would be advocating certain groups (like the new gentiles converts) NOT to keep the law?

Is God present? Do we believe as God says that "ALL things work together for good for those who love him." Christianity is "Following Christ" - when I was baptized it was specifically stated that I was "not baptized into any creed, sect or denomination" - If you can pray to God with an open heart and know that God is with you and blesses you - that you are acting out of the spirit and not a reprobate mind (for as Rom clearly states, the actions and the mental attitude of those who turn from God is clear - not in homosexuality but in the lack of compassion, how they are unmerciful, backstabbers, malicious, etc) then what do you have to fear?
 
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Vag4

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mpshiel said:
Jesus says that sin is in the mind, not in the rules. Paul goes on to point out twice (including in Gal 5) that we are free from the law or as St. Augustine put it: If we love God we are free to do whatever we please (for what we please is following God). Some have the idea that it is in turning over everything to God that is right, so thus a homosexual relationship must be wrong because it is of lust and not God. Yet again Paul illustrates in the start of Eph 6 that we are not to throw down work because it distracts us from God or relationships but rather take the spirit of God into that relationship.
But if all we have to do is love God, why does Jesus always forgive sins and says: "Go, and sin no more"
Sin is a violation of a rule right?
I quote the dictionary
sin( (sin)
n.
  1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
    1. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.
    2. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience.
  2. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
Sin is a transgression of a religious law. What you claim is that all we have to do is love God. But Jesus said "Go and sin no more", which I think means we should follow certain rules, because we can't sin if there are no rules to follow.

Or am I getting really retarded? T__T
 
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artybloke

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But Jesus said "Go and sin no more",

Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. He said nothing to the centurion despite the strong possibility that the servant he was asking Jesus to heal was also his lover.

And what in any case did he mean? He meant, it seems to me, that people were no longer to break the rule of love. Love God and love your neighbour: adultery, for instance, doesn't generally involve love of one's husband or wife, for instance, and can be very harmful. Therefore it breaks the primary rule of love.

Setting up a lot of other, arbitrary laws, based on partisan readings of Scripture, in the way of the rule of the love of God in our hearts and in our actions is, IMHO, legalism.
 
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kdet

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artybloke said:
Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't. He said nothing to the centurion despite the strong possibility that the servant he was asking Jesus to heal was also his lover.

And what in any case did he mean? He meant, it seems to me, that people were no longer to break the rule of love. Love God and love your neighbour: adultery, for instance, doesn't generally involve love of one's husband or wife, for instance, and can be very harmful. Therefore it breaks the primary rule of love.

Setting up a lot of other, arbitrary laws, based on partisan readings of Scripture, in the way of the rule of the love of God in our hearts and in our actions is, IMHO, legalism.
The only evidence that exists that the centurion had a lover exists in some people's perverted minds.

With his story of the centurion’s servant, Matthew moves his circle of inclusiveness inward. The centurion is a gentile. In the context of Israel’s religious life, they are one step better than a leper, yet still outsiders. The leper couldn’t enter the area of the temple. Within the area of the temple was the outer Court of the Gentiles, beyond which no gentile could go. Additionally, while gentiles were not considered unclean at the level of a leper, it was forbidden for a Jew to associate with a gentile or enter the house of a gentile. To do so would have rendered the Jew as unclean. So, the next step in Matthew’s story of the healing grace of Jesus is to tell of a gentile approaching Jesus.

Again, there is no question asked, no specific request made of Jesus for healing. The centurion simply informs Jesus, "Lord, my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering." The suddenness of Jesus’ response, and its content, is, again, surprising. In response to the centurion’s simple statement, Jesus—eagerly is the word that comes to me—responds, "I will go and heal him." Not only is there an eagerness in Jesus’ response, but there is an extension of God’s grace beyond what is the expected norm because Jesus is willing to go to this gentile centurion’s home. Even the centurion seems startled by Jesus’ response, "You don’t need to come to my home, Lord." In his statement, the centurion expresses a simple faith in the ability of Jesus to heal. "You don’t need to come to my home, Lord. Just say the word and my servant will be healed." "Such is your power, Jesus, that you can heal long distance." Jesus recognizes the centurion for his faith, that he has not seen anyone among the covenant people of Israel with such faith. And it leads to Jesus making the point against smugness in one’s faith. That foreigners from "east and west," like the Roman centurion, "will take their place at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside." In other words, many who think they are in the kingdom will be out, and many who are thought to be out of the kingdom will be in. Be careful, Matthew seems to be telling his audience, from becoming smug and arrogant in your faith.

The centurion is not only a model for faith, but is a model for intercessory prayer, prayer that is offered on behalf of another person, possibly without their awareness. Does the servant even know of the centurion’s actions? There’s no indication that he is aware of his master’s actions and, as a servant, most likely he knows nothing about it. It is the intercession of the centurion that brings healing to the servant. Again, there is no Biblical formula for healing. A leper comes with his humble and confident faith in Jesus to heal him. A centurion comes with his humble and confident faith interceding for his sick servant. Jesus touches the leper. Jesus gets nowhere near the servant. The healing grace of Jesus also comes through the intercession of another.
http://www.soth.net/sermons%202002/sermon%201-20-2002.htm
 
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artybloke

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The only evidence that exists that the centurion had a lover exists in some people's perverted minds.

The only evidence that exists that the centurion didn't have a love exists in some people's bigotted minds. Personally, I find it perfectly plausible. It was pretty common practice. Doesn't stop the centurion from being a model for intercessory prayer though, if you want to take him that way. Gay people can pray just as well as straight people.
 
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kdet

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Gays sometimes say that the centurion and his servant were involved in a homosexual relationship of some kind, and that Jesus obviously approved of this homosexual relationship because Jesus healed the servant. According to this argument, if homosexuality is a sin then Jesus should have rebuked the centurion and refused to heal the servant. However, Jesus never refused to heal people because of their sins (as we just saw), so it would be incorrect to assume that Jesus approved of a homosexual relationship just because He healed one of the partners. Another problem with this argument is that there is no Scriptural evidence that the centurion and his servant were involved in any kind of homosexual relationship at all. Gays say that the servant was "precious" and "dear" to the centurion (based on the Greek word entimos in the passage above), but this Greek word does not mean that they had a homosexual relationship. Notice that apart from the passage above, this Greek word is used four more times in the New Testament:

"When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished [entimos] than you may have been invited." (Luke 14:8)

"Welcome him in the Lord with great joy, and honor [entimos] men like him" (Philippians 2:29)

"As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious [entimos] to him" (1 Peter 2:4) "For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious [entimos] cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."" (1 Peter 2:6)

Notice that the other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament do not imply any kind of sexual feelings or romantic feelings or homosexual behavior. There is no Scriptural reason for thinking that the centurion and his servant were involved in a homosexual relationship.

http://www.layhands.com/IsHomosexualityASin.htm
 
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Vag4

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artybloke said:
Setting up a lot of other, arbitrary laws, based on partisan readings of Scripture, in the way of the rule of the love of God in our hearts and in our actions is, IMHO, legalism.
Hmmm, true, Jesus said many many times to the Pharisees and Priests that with their extended rules they were off the road (like you can read in for example Luke 11 37:54). BUT I don't think we should just abandon the rules which are in the bible! What purpose would the bible have if we were not bound to follow it? Only for stories? Because if love was the only thing, Jesus might as well given a piece of paper with on it "Love is the key"

Point what I meant to say is that Paul was one of Jesus most faithful disiples. He was a very well educated man, as we all know from the bible. And I think this one of the most important parts from the letter to rome.
Roman
Romans 6 1:12
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good
I hope this helps you see my opinion ^_^;;
 
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lucaspa

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John Pearce said:
I can't see anywhere in the Bible that states homosexuality is wrong? I think its unfair that people who r gay cannot be treated equally? I am a hardcore left-winger, so you guys better have a good explaination...? If it is the word of God, well then, maybe homosexuality is just a state of mind, but I believe its genetic.
The data is very much that homosexuality is genetic.

There is considerable debate within Christianity whether homosexuality is wrong. I suggest reading the various positions at www.religioustolerance.org

You should note that both the OT and NT has verses saying slavery is OK. Yet Christians decided that slavery was wrong. So the Bible is not the end-all of authority on ethical matters. The Bible states the moral/ethical position of the times. A better understanding of God and God's children can cause Christians to change their opinion.
 
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lucaspa

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Vag4 said:
I hope this helps you see my opinion ^_^;;
Let's take the verse before the one you bolded:

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

I think this makes the point that we should be careful about the letter of the law. When the letter comes in conflict with 'do unto others ..." I always choose the latter. And I would not like to be done unto as conservative Christians do unto homosexuals.
 
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kdet

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lucaspa said:
The data is very much that homosexuality is genetic.

There is considerable debate within Christianity whether homosexuality is wrong. I suggest reading the various positions at www.religioustolerance.org

You should note that both the OT and NT has verses saying slavery is OK. Yet Christians decided that slavery was wrong. So the Bible is not the end-all of authority on ethical matters. The Bible states the moral/ethical position of the times. A better understanding of God and God's children can cause Christians to change their opinion.
I was told a few months back that links to www.religioustolerance.org was against the rules..has that changed??
I also have to disagree that the Bible says slavery is ok..the Bibe tells us how slaves should be treated because slaves were a part of life in those days...
 
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