Is Hell eternal ?

[Benoni]

1 Enoch is not pagan and is listed as canon in the Ethiopian Coptic Church, and Tertullien, Barnabas [Mary's sister who was Mark's mother, and one of the seventy disciples and a fellow apostle to the Gentiles with Saul], Iraneaus, and many others quoted it and called it Scripture. Jude is a womb brother to Jesus and quotes it, and Jesus not only quotes from it, but is so aquainted with the writings of 1 Enoch that the revelations of Enoch from there are part and parcel of all that Jesus states, as recorded in the Gospel accounts. 1 Enoch also is enlightening as to all Jesus gives John to write in Revelation, as the things John saw only confirm 1 Enoch, where so many of them are first written about.

If you want to discuss eschatology then you must be acquainted with the first recorded book of eschatology which was given to men on earth, which is 1 Enoch.

If you want to discuss the doctrine of the everlasting lake of fire [the Abyss] or the doctrine of Sheol beneath earth as the holding place for departed souls, then you must be acquainted with the writings of 1 Enoch, for that is where the doctrines are taught from which all the writers of the OT and NT refer to them from.
If you want to discuss the doctrine of demons then you must be acquainted with the writings of 1 Enoch, for that is where the doctrine is taught from and to which all the writers of the OT and NT refer to them from.

You could never write a book and claim that Jesus gave full acceptance to it, as Jesus is the "Last Word" spoken to all Adamkind from the Father [Hebrews 1], and the book of Revelation is the 'last book" of His speaking to all Adamkind.

GARBAGE I do not care about the Book of Enoch, there is not a thing you could say to change my mind....

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

I understand that; BUT we are looking at the original language (I would hope) of the Bible not Latin. DUDE.... Which is NO WAY the original language of the BIble.......

The point is that eternal derives from AION it does not cease its derrivation in the Latin eon. THAT IS MY POINT. Which is the original language.

Aion has within its scope of meaning the philosophical concept of eternal.

Ergo, Rev 14 and Mat 24 (25?) teach quite clearly the eternal judgement/punishment of the wicked. Not to mention Paul and Jude who speak the same way.

And this is a carrying over of what was taught in their culture . . . not some later insertion by the church.

It always has been a position held by the church from the beginning.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

GARBAGE I do not care about the Book of Enoch, there is not a thing you could say to change my mind....

TELL IT TO JUDE WHO QUOTED IT WORD FOR WORD in your "canon"!!!
TAKE IT UP WITH GOD....it's HIS WORD, after all.

 

[Benoni]

Dude, the Latin eon is derived from the Greek AION! Sorry.

resurrect the just and the unjust . . . yep . . . FOR JUDGEMENT . . . both.

It just does not say for judgement (you are adding to the verse); but that would be good because God is a just God, not this unjust monster of eternal torment doctrine.

What about the Tabernacle of David? Acts 15:16-18

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I agree that it has significance . . . but I would not consider it scripture.

There are proverbs in Proverbs that are VERBATIM found in Ancient Egyptian sources . . . is the Egyptian source Scripture . . . NOT AT ALL.

Truth is truth . . . and so while the accounts may be FACT . . . that does not make the BOOK of Enoch infallible (as we hold for Jude).

I consider Enoch "sacred writings" as Barnabas, the brother of John Mark's mother, and many other NT Believers did.

Solomon collected many proverbs, but they are not all infallible, and Egypt once worshipped "Amen", as the One True God, the "hidden God in heaven", "whose name was secret", "who made all things", upholds all things, and who is "truth", as He was revealed in the writings of 1 Enoch. Because they changed the truth of God into a lie and into the image of beasts an so on [Romans 1] that did not change who He was, as He was known about and worshipped by all Noah's descendents, who all came from his sons, who cme through the flood, and who had Enoch's writings.
They certainly knew why the earth was destroyed in the flood, as Enoch prophesied it. 1 Enoch contains a fragment of a book written by Noah, too.


Jesus says that He is "The Amen", in Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
This same Amen is to be revealed to the world at His coming, but is revealed to each born again iin Christ believer in this Church age, which "revealing" is in our inner man by the second birth of Spirit.

Egyptians once worshipped Him in truth, and even did so in the time of Abraham, as also all nations once did, who changed the truth of God into a lie.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

It just does not say for judgement (you are adding to the verse); but that would be good because God is a just God, not this unjust monster of eternal torment doctrine.

What about the Tabernacle of David? Acts 15:16-18

Rev speaks of the judgement from the books of deeds . . . and the book of life and the names NOT in the book of life (mind you after their resurrection) are cast into the lake of fire where their torment rises forever and ever. Deal with the text.

And the sheep and the goats . . . depart from me into the fire prepared for the Devil and his angels . . . and these will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

Sorry dude . . . the Scriptures teach it.

Quote and exegete what you mean about David's tabernacle. Thanks.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

I consider Enoch "sacred writings" as Barnabas, the brother of John Mark's mother, and many other NT Believers did.

Solomon collected many proverbs, but they are not all infallible, and Egypt once worshipped "Amen", as the One True God, the "hidden God in heaven", "whose name was secret", "who made all things", upholds all things, and who is "truth", as He was revealed in the writings of 1 Enoch. Because they changed the truth of God into a lie and into the image of beasts an so on [Romans 1] that did not change who He was, as He was known about and worshipped by all Noah's descendents, who all came from his sons through the flood, and who had Enoch's writings. They certainly knew why the earth was destroyed int eh flood, as ENoch prophesied it. 1 Enoch contains a fragment of a book written by Noah, too.


Jesus says that He is "The Amen", in Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
This same Amen is to be revealed to the world at His coming, but is revealed to each born again iin Christ believer in this Church age, which "revealing" is in our inner man by the second birth of Spirit.

Egyptians once worshipped Him in truth, and even did so in the time of Abraham, as also all nations once did, who changed the truth of God into a lie.

When did Barnabas quote Enoch?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

When did Barnabas quote Enoch?

Here are two. He cites Enoch three times.

Barnabas 4:3
The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh, as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His inheritance.
Barnabas 4:4
And the prophet also speaketh on this wise; Ten reigns shall reign upon the earth, and after them shall arise another king, who shall bring low three of the kings under one.
Barnabas 4:5
In like manner Daniel speaketh concerning the same; And I saw the forth beast to be wicked and strong and more intractable than all the beasts of the earth, and how there arose from him ten horns, and from these a little horn and excrescence, and how that it abased under one three of the great horns.




Barnabas 16:5
Again, it was revealed how the city and the temple and the people of Israel should be betrayed. For the scripture saith; And it shall be in the last days, that the Lord shall deliver up the sheep of the pasture and the fold and the tower thereof to destruction. And it came to pass as the Lord spake.

Barnabas 16:5 is part of the dream visions given Enoch of the things to come as pertaining to Israel [who were not yet a people]. http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_4.HTM

 

[Benoni]

Rev speaks of the judgement from the books of deeds . . . and the book of life and the names NOT in the book of life (mind you after their resurrection) are cast into the lake of fire where their torment rises forever and ever. Deal with the text.

And the sheep and the goats . . . depart from me into the fire prepared for the Devil and his angels . . . and these will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

Sorry dude . . . the Scriptures teach it.

Quote and exegete what you mean about David's tabernacle. Thanks.

The Book of Life is a totally different subject; be glad to get into the subject.. The Lake of Fire is the Lake of Devine Purification; it all adds up to change; not eternal torture... Your scripture might teach it; but the Bible does not; you got to dig... get beyond the letter that killeth...


You are so totally wrong in the meaning of resurrection; You assume it means to n be judged; but that is not what the Greek brings out…

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
A THOROUGH CHANGE! THAT is what I mean by ... RECONCILIATION! We have possessed "in part" the life of God, and we have thrilled to its surgings within us, and the transformations wrought, but we must have the WHOLE, being thoroughly changed into His same image. What a tremendous process, for man is not a noble ruin, but he is an utter ruin of what was once a noble nature. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion..." But, alas, how the glory has grown dim, how the fine gold has tarnished! The crown has fallen from man's head. His kingly nature is deformed, and the image of God is destroyed. Thus we see that so little remains in the unregenerated man of that copious flow of love and life and light and righteousness and power which at first poured forth from man to the creation.

How can it be restored? "And, having made peace through the blood Of His cross, by Him to RECONCILE (THOROUGHLY CHANGE) all things unto Himself." With the climax of the cross bringing final death to the carnal mind, mankind will emerge out of the barren tomb as a NEW CREATION. If man is to be restored to the image of the all-loving God, reconciled, thoroughly changed and unified INTO HIM, it will only be done by God Himself. A little child can take an egg in his hand and crush it. All of the skill of all of the men in all of the world, all of their wisdom and all of the power that can split the atom, and all of the technology that can place men on the moon, all these combined CANNOT RESTORE THAT EGG TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE. How much less can man, by his own strength or wisdom, restore the destroyed image of God in his being unto that which God originally made him to be? Nothing will suffice but a thorough change, a new creation, a reconciliation wrought by God Himself. "Therefore if any man be in Christ He is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who HAS RECONCILED US to Himself" (II Cor. 5:17-18).

If such be not the end of God's great plan of the ages then Calvary is a failure and redemption a farce. Current so-called "orthodox" theology incorporates into its system belief in the superior power of Satan, the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and the permanence of evil. The doctrines of the harlot church system teach that since sin and death have entered upon the scene in God's universe, they have come never to go out again, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Charles Schmitt has asked the burning question:
"Is God, who is sovereign Lord, destined to possess about 3% of all the billions who have sprung from His creative hand? Shall the absolute majority of all these created beings perpetuate hate and blasphemy against their blessed Creator throughout an endless eternity? Is Jesus, who died effecting the death blow to all sin and to all the works of Satan (I Jn.3:8) 8 The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God (A) was revealed (B) for this purpose: to destroy the Devil's works. destined to reign in a universe where sin shall exist in staggering proportions, and even as some purport, in increasing proportions throughout all eternity? The counsels of God, according to Sacred Scripture, have declared an emphatic NO! Through the consuming fires of God's holy Love (Heb. 12:29) (Message) 28-29Do you see what we've got? An unshakable kingdom! And do you see how thankful we must be? Not only thankful, but brimming with worship, deeply reverent before God. For God is not an indifferent bystander. He's actively cleaning house, torching all that needs to burn, and he won't quit until it's all cleansed. God himself is Fire!God has deigned to cause all men everywhere eventually to drop the sword of proud rebellion and willingly acclaim the Lordship of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that to the glory of God (Phil. 2:10-11)! Have we hereby done despite to the justice and holiness of God? No, unlike those who hold the opposing view, we have rather fully satisfied it against all sin and rebellion! Have we hereby maligned the sovereign love and the mercy of God? No, we have rather upheld it in its infinite scope!"

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Here are two. He cites Enoch three times.


Barnabas 16:5 is part of the dream visions given Enoch of the things to come as pertaining to Israel [who were not yet a people]. http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_4.HTM

For some reason I don't think Barnabas wrote these . . . if I remember correctly the date for the Epistle of Barnabas is late . . . and is either pseudopigrapha or a different Barnabas.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

The Book of Life is a totally different subject; be glad to get into the subject.. The Lake of Fire is the Lake of Devine Purification; it all adds up to change; not eternal torture... Your scripture might teach it; but the Bible does not; you got to dig... get beyond the letter that killeth...


You are so totally wrong in the meaning of resurrection; You assume it means to n be judged; but that is not what the Greek brings out…

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
A THOROUGH CHANGE! THAT is what I mean by ... RECONCILIATION! We have possessed "in part" the life of God, and we have thrilled to its surgings within us, and the transformations wrought, but we must have the WHOLE, being thoroughly changed into His same image. What a tremendous process, for man is not a noble ruin, but he is an utter ruin of what was once a noble nature. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion..." But, alas, how the glory has grown dim, how the fine gold has tarnished! The crown has fallen from man's head. His kingly nature is deformed, and the image of God is destroyed. Thus we see that so little remains in the unregenerated man of that copious flow of love and life and light and righteousness and power which at first poured forth from man to the creation.

How can it be restored? "And, having made peace through the blood Of His cross, by Him to RECONCILE (THOROUGHLY CHANGE) all things unto Himself." With the climax of the cross bringing final death to the carnal mind, mankind will emerge out of the barren tomb as a NEW CREATION. If man is to be restored to the image of the all-loving God, reconciled, thoroughly changed and unified INTO HIM, it will only be done by God Himself. A little child can take an egg in his hand and crush it. All of the skill of all of the men in all of the world, all of their wisdom and all of the power that can split the atom, and all of the technology that can place men on the moon, all these combined CANNOT RESTORE THAT EGG TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE. How much less can man, by his own strength or wisdom, restore the destroyed image of God in his being unto that which God originally made him to be? Nothing will suffice but a thorough change, a new creation, a reconciliation wrought by God Himself. "Therefore if any man be in Christ He is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who HAS RECONCILED US to Himself" (II Cor. 5:17-18).

If such be not the end of God's great plan of the ages then Calvary is a failure and redemption a farce. Current so-called "orthodox" theology incorporates into its system belief in the superior power of Satan, the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and the permanence of evil. The doctrines of the harlot church system teach that since sin and death have entered upon the scene in God's universe, they have come never to go out again, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Charles Schmitt has asked the burning question:
"Is God, who is sovereign Lord, destined to possess about 3% of all the billions who have sprung from His creative hand? Shall the absolute majority of all these created beings perpetuate hate and blasphemy against their blessed Creator throughout an endless eternity? Is Jesus, who died effecting the death blow to all sin and to all the works of Satan (I Jn.3:8) 8 The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God (A) was revealed (B) for this purpose: to destroy the Devil's works. destined to reign in a universe where sin shall exist in staggering proportions, and even as some purport, in increasing proportions throughout all eternity? The counsels of God, according to Sacred Scripture, have declared an emphatic NO! Through the consuming fires of God's holy Love (Heb. 12:29) (Message) 28-29Do you see what we've got? An unshakable kingdom! And do you see how thankful we must be? Not only thankful, but brimming with worship, deeply reverent before God. For God is not an indifferent bystander. He's actively cleaning house, torching all that needs to burn, and he won't quit until it's all cleansed. God himself is Fire!God has deigned to cause all men everywhere eventually to drop the sword of proud rebellion and willingly acclaim the Lordship of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that to the glory of God (Phil. 2:10-11)! Have we hereby done despite to the justice and holiness of God? No, unlike those who hold the opposing view, we have rather fully satisfied it against all sin and rebellion! Have we hereby maligned the sovereign love and the mercy of God? No, we have rather upheld it in its infinite scope!"

Common universalist bad hermeneutics. You completely disregard the Scriptures that speak of the Lake of Fire being ETERNAL . . . not for purification but for wrath.

So, you malign the righteousness, justice and holiness of God for the sake of maintaining some image of Love that you have.

The gravity of the punishment is in lieu of the one sinned against . . . in this case God. If one rejects the cross God will not force it upon them . . . and your lake of purification actually makes the cross a farce . . . for these are then purified by atoning for their own sins.

No. You must get around the texts. The Lake is PUNISHMENT . . . not purification. It is eternal . . . it has no future terminus. You add an entire doctrine NEVER spoken in scripture . . . perhaps for you Revelation should have continued a chapter or two to outline the future glorious plan of God to restore those who enter into the lake of fire . . . but alas there is NONE.

Unconvincing and lacking solid exegetical, hermeneutical, historical and linguistic basis. Sorry . . . no dice.

 

[Leah]

The lake of fire is eternal and is the second death. (read chapter 20 of the book of Revelation).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

For some reason I don't think Barnabas wrote these . . . if I remember correctly the date for the Epistle of Barnabas is late . . . and is either pseudopigrapha or a different Barnabas.

Barnabas fell out of fashion, as Enoch did, among those histories we are privy to by those who choose for us what we are to believe -if they can get us to follow them and ignore the Holy Spirit, that is; but he is indeed the Barnabas of the NT, who was a called apostle to the Gentiles, with Paul.

http://www.churchhistory101.com/century2-p2.php
The Epistle of Barnabas
The dating for Barnabas is highly disputed, ranging from 70 to 128 A.D. Some early fathers, like Clement of Alexandria, ascribed this document to the Barnabas named in Acts with the apostle Paul. In fact, Clement refers to Barnabas as an apostle and quotes from Barnabas as inspired text. Most scholars do not accept NT Barnabas as the author.

Barnabas has a very negative view of Judaism, believing that the Jews were being punished for crucifying Jesus. The author quotes extensively from the Greek OT and rarely from the NT. The same "Two Ways" teaching found in Didache is found at the end of Barnabas.

A synopsis of Barnabas is given here:
http://stbarnabastheapostle.net/bio.html

 

[Benoni]

Mathetes the kerux

You totally brush off reconciliation for the unjust…. as if it has something to do with judgment and then accuse me “disregarding the Lake of fire and no it is not eternal”; look at the language Greek not Latin. At least I am showing evidence in my argument not just adding words to scripture like the Lake of Punishment so I God’s Word can fit my bias. The Greek word fire (pur) which we get our English word pure, purify, purge, purging; were did you come up with “punishment”?

So I you say I “malign the righteousness, justice and holiness of God for the sake of maintaining some image of Love that you have” which is not true. I just do not believe God has only the will to burn billions in some eternal torture chamber because He does not have the will to save them. I do believe the wicked and the religious will be punished; but not eternal in the Lake of Devine Purging (Gk). I have already explained the word eternal in thread 8 and 9. There are plenty of error in scripture I could point out where these word do not fit and were obviously put there by bias translators; men just like you.

God’s justice declares every knee will bow; every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Speaking of His holiness " All these statements (by eternal hell-fire preachers) may be a show of oratorical eloquence, but they are nothing more. They hold no part of truth. They deny every attribute of God.They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe. To say that I believe in such repugnance would be a lie of the first order. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome. Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Worst of all, it frustrates the purpose of God laid down in the beginning when He said, 'Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.' Some will immediately ask me whether I do not believe in hell. My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell, but the hell of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative." Sorry no dice….


I keep asking you about the Tabernacle of David and obviously you do not address my question.

 

[Benoni]

The Book of Revelations is the most spiritual book in the Bible; Baby-lon likes to literalize it because their approach it always by the letter that killeth; not the spirit that gives it light. I believe every word that the Bible says about the lake of fire; I don't believe what Rome says about it, nor what the apostate Churches say about it, nor what tradition says about it; but I certainly believe what the Bible says about it.

The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually. Such people have no love for God nor fear of God, and they manifest by what they say that their professed serving of God is only a pretense, arising - not from any true love for Him - but from fear of punishment. If there were no prospect of hell these would promptly tell God to go to hell and they would, themselves, go to the devil. It is not thus with those who truly love God, for they serve not from fear, but from pure love and devotion. Remove punishment completely from the universe, and they would still serve God with all their hearts.
Because of the gross misunderstanding of almost all people concerning the lake of fire, I would like to draw your attention to three words found in the passage quoted above. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which BURNS with FIRE and BRIMSTONE: which is the second death." The word BURN means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example: a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply CHANGED into a DIFFERENT FORM and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc. Thus, to bum, means to CHANGE. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that fire does not burn down; it always burns up; it seeks the highest level. And all that it consumes "goes up in smoke," to exist in a new form in a higher dimension. Even if you take a pan of water and place it over a fire, before long the water will take on the property of the fire and will begin to go up in steam. To burn means to CHANGE, and the change is always UPWARD in its motion.

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT.

"The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.
I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not! More than 2500 years ago the Holy Spirit warned the wicked inhabitants of Jerusalem that God would kindle a fire at Jerusalem's gates which would devour her palaces. "But if you will not hearken unto Me ... then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not he quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Did not God say this fire "shall NOT BE QUENCHED?" This prophecy was fulfilled and the fire did occur a few years later and it did destroy all the houses of Jerusalem (Jer. 52:13). Since God said no person or thing would "quench" this fire, did that mean that it would burn for ever? Since it accomplished the work it was sent to do, and since it is NOT BURNING TODAY, it obviously went out by itself after accomplishing its purpose! Unquenchable fire is not eternal fire - it is simply fire that cannot be put out until it has consumed or changed everything it is possible for it to change! It then simply goes out, for there is nothing more to burn. Yet I hear the preachers ranting and raving about poor souls being cast into hell fire where "their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" and this, we are told, means eternal, unending torment. How foolish, illogical, and deceptive! Such a view contradicts the plain meaning of the term "unquenchable" and its use in the Word of God.

Are the judgments of God permanent? Isaiah says, "When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isa. 26:9). And Mat. 12:20 says, "A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till He send forth judgment unto victory." Judgment, therefore, is not an eternal condition, but it is given to produce that victory. Judgments of themselves do not save anyone, but they are used by God to bring one to one's self, to effect a change of attitude and will, to consume away the stubbornness and rebellion of men. Punishment by fire is a beneficent one. "Our GOD is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). The basic purpose of this divine fire of God is to cleanse, purify, purge, temper and change. It is to rid of impurities, of filth, of undesirable elements. There is no better way to deal with filth than to deal with it by fire.

 

[Benoni]

The lake of fire is eternal and is the second death. (read chapter 20 of the book of Revelation).

The Bible is irrarant; BUT there are so many inconsistencies in the translation of the word aion, aionios and the Hebrew word olan. Read tread 9. So if you ae going to condemn billion to an eternal torture chamber and blaime God for it you better open your spiritual eyes.



aion or aionios
These two words are translated as well as mis-translated thirteen ways: eternal age, ages of ages, course, world, , since the world began, from the beginning of the world, ever, forever, forever and ever, for evermore, while the world standeth, world without end, and, never.

Now I understand what the bias translators have interpreted the Bible using these two words as mentioned above but it just does not add up in the Bible. God’s Word is perfect; with out error; but it is full of errors if we believe these translator and or translations

The term forever (and its equivalents, eternal and everlasting) often occurs when it cannot possibly mean unending. In the story of Jonah one is surprised to hear him say while in the belly of the fish, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever" (Jon. 2:6). But he was in the fish only three days and three nights!

When a Hebrew slave loved his master and did not wish to go free at the end of the seventh year, we read, "... His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever" (Ex. 21:6). Of course, that couldn't be longer than his life span.

Again, when Solomon built the temple unto the Lord, he began his prayer of dedication with the statement, "I have surely built You a house to dwell in, a settled place for You to abide in for ever" (I Kgs. 8:13). And the Lord answered Solomon, "I have heard your prayer and supplication that you have made before Me: I have hallowed this house, which you have built, to put My name there for ever" (I Kgs. 9:3). But Solomon's temple lasted for only about 400 years! And it was never in God's mind to dwell there for ever!

Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING.

Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible).

Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.

In Eph. 2:7 we find, "in the ages (aions) to come." In Col. 1:26 we find, "the mystery which has been hid from ages (aions)." In Eph. 2:2 we find, "you walked according to the course (aion) of this world." In Heb. 1:2 we find, "by whom also He made the worlds (aions)." In Hebrews 11:3 we find, "the worlds (aions) were formed by the word of God." In about fifteen instances, such as Mat. 12:32, I Cor. 1:20, etc., we find it rendered "this world (aion)." Twice we find "this present world (aion)." In Gal. 1:4 we find, "deliver us from this present evil world (aion)." In Eph. 6:12 we find, "the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion)." In II Cor. 4:4 we find, "the god of this world (aion)." In I Cor. 2:6 we find, "the wisdom of this world (aion)." In Mk. 4:19 we find, "the cares of this world (aion)." How much clearer and understandable it would be if the translators had used the correct word age instead of world! In Mk. 10:30 we find that there is not only this present aion, which is evil, but also "the world (aion) to come." Certainly this present age is an evil age, and the rulers of the darkness of this age are evil. Clearly God framed the ages, and there are not only "this age" and "the age to come," but there are also "the ages to come" (Eph. 2:7). Any thinking person should plainly see that if you translate a word which means an age by the word world, you immediately get the wrong idea. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come," and the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him in this age, nor in the age to come." The translation in Mat. 12:32 of "world" instead of "age," has been the source of an altogether erroneous concept. This "world" and the "world to come" has become so indelibly impressed on the Christian mind as meaning "this life and eternity," that it is next to impossible quickly to reverse the trend of belief and direct it into sound thinking. It makes all the difference in the world when one understands that our Lord was not contrasting "this world" with that "great eternity out there somewhere," but merely pointing to two ages: this age and the age to come.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Book of Revelations is the most spiritual book in the Bible; ...

The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

The lake of fire is the "Abyss" of eternal/everlasting fire, a furnace which sends up continual pillars of fire, ascending and descending, which remain equal in it's width at their heighth as at their bottom. Enoch saw and described the everlasting furnace/abyss of fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels and for all to have their share in, who take the devil's part in rebellion against God.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


In Enoch it was seen, and Enoch was told that it was made for the devil and his angels, and, then, on the day of judgment all the unrepentent and the tares [the evil spirits who roam earth till the return of Jesus, and who are the disembodied spirits who are the seed of the sons of God and daughters of Adam] will be cast into it.

It is the place of "outer darkness" as Enoch said, as Jesus said, and as JEsus revealed to John to say.

[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'
5 And they shall say:
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:
7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,

And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ' This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'


Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Enoch 54 1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning 2 fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3 And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4 And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

62...
8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown,
And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.
9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
Shall fall down before him on their faces,
And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.
10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
And their faces shall be filled with shame,
And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.
11 And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
12 And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
They shall rejoice over them,
Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
And His sword is drunk with their blood.
13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.
14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
And with that Son of Man shall they eat
And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.
15 And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
And ceased to be of downcast countenance.
And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
16 And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
And your garments shall not grow old,
Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.

[Chapter 10]
1 Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, 2 and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come 3 upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape 4 and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. ...
...
bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and

14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.


Enoch 21...
I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'


Enoch 90:…
And I saw till the Lord of the sheep came unto them and took in His hand the staff of His wrath, and smote the earth, and the earth clave asunder, and all the beasts and all the birds of the heaven fell from among those sheep, and were swallowed up in the earth and it covered them.

20 And I saw till a throne was erected in the pleasant land, and the Lord of the sheep sat Himself thereon, and the other took the sealed books and opened those books before the Lord of the sheep.

21 And the Lord called those men the seven first white ones, and commanded that they should bring before Him, beginning with the first star which led the way, all the stars whose privy members 22 were like those of horses, and they brought them all before Him. And He said to that man who wrote before Him, being one of those seven white ones, and said unto him: ' Take those seventy shepherds to whom I delivered the sheep, and who taking them on their own authority slew more 23 than I commanded them.'

And behold they were all bound, I saw, and they all stood before Him. 24 And the judgement was held first over the stars, and they were judged and found guilty, and went to the place of condemnation, and they were cast into an abyss, full of fire and flaming, and full 25 of pillars of fire. And those seventy shepherds were judged and found guilty, and they were cast 26 into that fiery abyss.

 

[Benoni]

The lake of fire is the "Abyss" of eternal/everlasting fire, a furnace which sends up continual pillars of fire, ascending and descending, which remain equal in it's width at their heighth as at their bottom. Enoch saw and described the everlasting furnace/abyss of fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels and for all to have their share in, who take the devil's part in rebellion against God.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


In Enoch it was seen, and Enoch was told that it was made for the devil and his angels, and, then, on the day of judgment all the unrepentent and the tares [the evil spirits who roam earth till the return of Jesus, and who are the disembodied spirits who are the seed of the sons of God and daughters of Adam] will be cast into it.

It is the place of "outer darkness" as Enoch said, as Jesus said, and as JEsus revealed to John to say.

[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'
5 And they shall say:
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:
7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,

And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ' This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'


Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Enoch 54 1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning 2 fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3 And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4 And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

62...
8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown,
And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.
9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
Shall fall down before him on their faces,
And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.
10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
And their faces shall be filled with shame,
And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.
11 And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
12 And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
They shall rejoice over them,
Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
And His sword is drunk with their blood.
13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.
14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
And with that Son of Man shall they eat
And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.
15 And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
And ceased to be of downcast countenance.
And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
16 And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
And your garments shall not grow old,
Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.

[Chapter 10]
1 Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, 2 and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come 3 upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape 4 and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. ...
...
bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and

14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.


Enoch 21...
I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'


Enoch 90:…
And I saw till the Lord of the sheep came unto them and took in His hand the staff of His wrath, and smote the earth, and the earth clave asunder, and all the beasts and all the birds of the heaven fell from among those sheep, and were swallowed up in the earth and it covered them.

20 And I saw till a throne was erected in the pleasant land, and the Lord of the sheep sat Himself thereon, and the other took the sealed books and opened those books before the Lord of the sheep.

21 And the Lord called those men the seven first white ones, and commanded that they should bring before Him, beginning with the first star which led the way, all the stars whose privy members 22 were like those of horses, and they brought them all before Him. And He said to that man who wrote before Him, being one of those seven white ones, and said unto him: ' Take those seventy shepherds to whom I delivered the sheep, and who taking them on their own authority slew more 23 than I commanded them.'

And behold they were all bound, I saw, and they all stood before Him. 24 And the judgement was held first over the stars, and they were judged and found guilty, and went to the place of condemnation, and they were cast into an abyss, full of fire and flaming, and full 25 of pillars of fire. And those seventy shepherds were judged and found guilty, and they were cast 26 into that fiery abyss.

Book of Enoch Garbage, dirty filthy garbage, trash... I do not care about your book of Enoch.....

 

[Benoni]

If you quote the Bible I will debate with you, BUT if you quote the Book of Enoch, JW Bible or Book of Mormon I do not recognize or acknowledge the above fiction. There is nothing you can say or do to change my mind; I thought I made this clear to you….

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The lake of fire is the "Abyss" of eternal/everlasting fire, a furnace which sends up continual pillars of fire, ascending and descending, which remain equal in it's width at their heighth as at their bottom. Enoch saw and described the everlasting furnace/abyss of fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels and for all to have their share in, who take the devil's part in rebellion against God.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


In Enoch it was seen, and Enoch was told that it was made for the devil and his angels, and, then, on the day of judgment all the unrepentent and the tares [the evil spirits who roam earth till the return of Jesus, and who are the disembodied spirits who are the seed of the sons of God and daughters of Adam] will be cast into it.

It is the place of "outer darkness" as Enoch said, as Jesus said, and as JEsus revealed to John to say.

[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'
5 And they shall say:
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:
7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,

And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ' This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'


Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Enoch 54 1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning 2 fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3 And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4 And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

62...
8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown,
And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.
9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
Shall fall down before him on their faces,
And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.
10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
And their faces shall be filled with shame,
And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.
11 And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
12 And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
They shall rejoice over them,
Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
And His sword is drunk with their blood.
13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.
14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
And with that Son of Man shall they eat
And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.
15 And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
And ceased to be of downcast countenance.
And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
16 And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
And your garments shall not grow old,
Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.

[Chapter 10]
1 Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, 2 and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come 3 upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape 4 and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. ...
...
bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and

14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.


Enoch 21...
I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'


Enoch 90:…
And I saw till the Lord of the sheep came unto them and took in His hand the staff of His wrath, and smote the earth, and the earth clave asunder, and all the beasts and all the birds of the heaven fell from among those sheep, and were swallowed up in the earth and it covered them.

20 And I saw till a throne was erected in the pleasant land, and the Lord of the sheep sat Himself thereon, and the other took the sealed books and opened those books before the Lord of the sheep.

21 And the Lord called those men the seven first white ones, and commanded that they should bring before Him, beginning with the first star which led the way, all the stars whose privy members 22 were like those of horses, and they brought them all before Him. And He said to that man who wrote before Him, being one of those seven white ones, and said unto him: ' Take those seventy shepherds to whom I delivered the sheep, and who taking them on their own authority slew more 23 than I commanded them.'

And behold they were all bound, I saw, and they all stood before Him. 24 And the judgement was held first over the stars, and they were judged and found guilty, and went to the place of condemnation, and they were cast into an abyss, full of fire and flaming, and full 25 of pillars of fire. And those seventy shepherds were judged and found guilty, and they were cast 26 into that fiery abyss.

Benoni,
There is no need to shout at us. Shouting on these boards is considered rude.

Your posts are full of opinions without Scripture. I post contradictions to your many worded posts, and I use Scripture to contradict you.

Whether or not you accept what Jesus said or not, He accepted and quoted from Enoch, as his womb brothers Jude and James also did, and as Peter, and the author of Hebrews, and as Paul did. Jesus confirms the writings of 1 Enoch by His use of the doctrines found there, and only there, about the lake of fire, and about Himself as the son of Man, who was in heaven, as Enoch saw Him, with God, hidden in God, and who was God, and who is come down as the Savior of the world, and who is to come on His Throne of Glory and in whose name the redeemed are saved..and to whom the Father has committed all judgment.