Is Hell eternal ?

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Briguy47

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Hi, this is my first post here, as I have just registered with Christian Forums.

I have been doing a little research on the above topic on the internet. Does the original Greek and Hebrew versions support the doctrine of 'eternal' hell, esp. with the words of our Lord Jesus ? I am not enquiring here about the 'fire' in hell, as this could be an anology of God's wrath of fire ("spiritual" fire).

The reason I ask is that some preachers, theologians, etc., including C.S. Lewis (as far as I know), do not believe in the everlasting duration of hell's punishment. Are they correct ? Is the eternal part of hell something that has been translated into modern versions that do not line up with the original versions ?

Thanks to all respondents on this question.
 

Briguy47

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Hi, this is my first post here, as I have just registered with Christian Forums.

I have been doing a little research on the above topic on the internet. Does the original Greek and Hebrew versions support the doctrine of 'eternal' hell, esp. with the words of our Lord Jesus ? I am not enquiring here about the 'fire' in hell, as this could be an anology of God's wrath of fire ("spiritual" fire).

The reason I ask is that some preachers, theologians, etc., including C.S. Lewis (as far as I know), do not believe in the everlasting duration of hell's punishment. Are they correct ? Is the eternal part of hell something that has been translated into modern versions that do not line up with the original versions ?

Thanks to all respondents on this question.
I didn't word that sentence properly. I was not saying that C.S. Lewis was a preacher or a theologian. I should have referred to him as "the writer", C. S. Lewis....
 
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Shubunkin

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I believe the Bible when it says it is "the second death."

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BreadAlone

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This thread has been moved from "New Members Intros" to here in Eschatology in General Theology as per consensus of the Friendship Team. We feel it is better suited here. Also, the thread has had some Off Topic posts removed to allow for conducive discussion.

Thank You!! :)
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hi, this is my first post here, as I have just registered with Christian Forums.

I have been doing a little research on the above topic on the internet. Does the original Greek and Hebrew versions support the doctrine of 'eternal' hell, esp. with the words of our Lord Jesus ? I am not enquiring here about the 'fire' in hell, as this could be an anology of God's wrath of fire ("spiritual" fire).

The reason I ask is that some preachers, theologians, etc., including C.S. Lewis (as far as I know), do not believe in the everlasting duration of hell's punishment. Are they correct ? Is the eternal part of hell something that has been translated into modern versions that do not line up with the original versions ?

Thanks to all respondents on this question.

The complete doctrine of hell, both the Sheol beneath earth and the everlasting Abyss of fire, are detailed in the book of 1 Enoch. Enoch saw both places, being taken on a tour by angels.
Enoch is the first book of eschatology, and details the last things, which are in agreement with not just what Jesus spoke of about last things, in the Gospel accounts, but what He showed John to write of in Revelation.

If you are not familiar with the OT and NT, then get familiar with them, first, and or simultaneously, with 1 Enoch. 1 Enoch has been kept as Canon in the Ethiopian Coptic Church from the beginning of the NT Church, and that book is quoted and doctrines from it are referred to as facts without disputes, in the later OT and NT.


You can read it online at http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm
and http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

Ps: why did you say C.S. Lewis did not believe in the doctrine of hell? I have read his fictions and his bio and a couple other of his books and a few of his lectures, and I have never found anything in his writings to suggest that he did not believe the Word on the doctrine of hell. In his fiction "The Last Battle", "Tash" [a symbolic Satan] carried off his victims, at death, to their tormenting eternity. -And Lewis 'drew' on the Book of 1 Enoch [for one], for the Narnia fiction.



George MacDonald did not believe in eternal hell, and was influenced by the Moravian doctrines on that, but he was cast out of his pastor position because of his unorthodox beliefs. He wrote good stories, though, and his personal theology was in flux through them -and it comes out so- but I never saw C.S. Lewis state or write anything which would lead me to believe he did not believe in the doctrine of hell.
 
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zeke37

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Hi, this is my first post here, as I have just registered with Christian Forums.

I have been doing a little research on the above topic on the internet. Does the original Greek and Hebrew versions support the doctrine of 'eternal' hell, esp. with the words of our Lord Jesus ? I am not enquiring here about the 'fire' in hell, as this could be an anology of God's wrath of fire ("spiritual" fire).

The reason I ask is that some preachers, theologians, etc., including C.S. Lewis (as far as I know), do not believe in the everlasting duration of hell's punishment. Are they correct ? Is the eternal part of hell something that has been translated into modern versions that do not line up with the original versions ?

Thanks to all respondents on this question.

Hi there and welcome!!!

My understanding is that our God is a loving God. And He is setting up for the eternity.

Could there possibly be a Paradise forever and ever where there are no tears and all is perfect, and at the same time, be a place where possibly even our own relatives could be frying in agony forever? I think not and I know that the bible teaches the same.

The result of what happens in the lake of fire is eternal. And we learn in multiple places that the Devil and his angels shall be destroyed there...turned to ashes from within...forever.

they shall be destroyed and be "absence of life"..."absence of aything"...nothingness...

and that is what will happen to all who are sentenced to the second death in the lake of Fire at Judgement.

to be blotted out of existance forever.



in His service
c
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Now, should we believe what God's own word says or believe Zeke?
 
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Benoni

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The word hell is a pagan word and not found in the original language of Bible.

There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.
The word hell cannot be found in the Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word

Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.
 
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Benoni

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Yes God is truly eternal; man is not. God had neither beginning nor end; to any honestly non bias person this is a fact. I can show you the beginnings of man in Genesis but I am pretty sure you know and believe this; so man is not truly eternal; put that aside….

A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.

Eternal, eternity, etc. is not actually found in Scripture though in some aspects applied through inference of propositions. The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

So anytime you saw Jesus say "Eternal" this and "Eternal" that, he didn't say "perpetuality of time" but rather an indeterminate duration that is neither perpetual or definifitive.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Yes God is truly eternal; man is not. God had neither beginning nor end; to any honestly non bias person this is a fact. I can show you the beginnings of man in Genesis but I am pretty sure you know and believe this; so man is not truly eternal; put that aside….
Wrong, sir...
I'll deal with your post when I have time, in the meantime, check out my post:


The complete doctrine of hell, both the Sheol beneath earth and the everlasting Abyss of fire, are detailed in the book of 1 Enoch. Enoch saw both places, being taken on a tour by angels.
Enoch is the first book of eschatology, and details the last things, which are in agreement with not just what Jesus spoke of about last things, in the Gospel accounts, but what He showed John to write of in Revelation.

If you are not familiar with the OT and NT, then get familiar with them, first, and or simultaneously, with 1 Enoch. 1 Enoch has been kept as Canon in the Ethiopian Coptic Church from the beginning of the NT Church, and that book is quoted and doctrines from it are referred to as facts without disputes, in the later OT and NT.



You can read it online at
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studi...eudo/enoch.htm
and http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseu...ch/ENOCH_1.HTM
 
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garry2

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All serious Christians know that God is Love.

Eternal is forever, and to my recollection God is the Eternal, the one and only.

We can have immortal life with Him, but not Eternal life as we had a beginning.

Immortal life is not having an ending.
Sounds good to me.
So long as it's with Christ.
 
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garry2

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My question to you; what is the second death?
Not adressed to me addmitably, but the second death is as described in the Bible.
revalation 20
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
There will be no more death or hell.
 
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Benoni

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Not adressed to me addmitably, but the second death is as described in the Bible.
revalation 20
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
There will be no more death or hell.

I read my Bible; I know where the second death is located. But what is it; here is what I see it as:

On the surface death seems so negative; but in the hands of an all knowing God even death has a victory. It is a fact the more new walk by His anointing the weaker our flesh will become and we will subdue us as well as every form of resistance of the carnal nature until it is His life alone that is made manifest. Nothing like the glorious anointing of the Holy Spirit to make us weak - weak yet very strong for there is power released of which few know anything about because they have refused to accept the sphere of weakness where in He is made strong.

The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and liveth unto God, and so fulfilleth all righteousness. The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, which is life and peace, which transformation is wrought by a dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because -- the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe. Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God and into the realm of carnality, minding self and flesh. Now God makes death overcome itself. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises an upspringing, a new life. It takes death to destroy death, and thus Christ 'did taste death for every man' --'that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage' (Heb. 2:9, 14-15). Since we are all under the effects of the first death, it is appointed unto us to die once more -- not physical death, we are already in a state of mortality -- but now a dying out to this present death state. We conquer this death of the carnal mind by dying to it -- only God could use such a process bringing victory, but praise God, lie is destroying the first death with the second death" -- end quote.

Death is used to die out to which caused us to be entangled. After that the death process, after that comes salvation with its more abundant life. Thought death there is much that is destroyed-made non effect. It brings an end to so many things. All the old life, the carnality, the self life, the will the imaginations, the intents; but destroyed by the cross. However God does not desire fellowship with a corpse, so needs to follow a resurrection to much more divine living.

Above all, the weakness is an attitude of the heart, weather it has any outward forms expressed or not, it really does not matter when we know in ourselves that we are nothing so we lean heavily on Him. Drawing from Him that strength which is equal to the need, and that grace which is truly sufficient for all things. How precious does the Spirit help our weakness, as we rise to walk in that new creative life.

Romans 8: 19For [even the whole] creation (all nature) waits expectantly and longs earnestly for God's sons to be made known [waits for the revealing, the disclosing of their sonship].
20For the creation (nature) was subjected to [9] frailty (to futility, condemned to frustration), not because of some intentional fault on its part, but by the will of Him Who so subjected it--[yet] with the hope(4)
21That nature (creation) itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and corruption [and gain an entrance] into the glorious freedom of God's children.
22We know that the whole creation [of irrational creatures] has been moaning together in the pains of labor until now.(5)
23And not only the creation, but we ourselves too, who have and enjoy the firstfruits of the [Holy] Spirit [a foretaste of the blissful things to come] groan inwardly as we wait for the redemption of our bodies [from sensuality and the grave, which will reveal] our adoption (our manifestation as God's sons).
24For in [this] hope we were saved. But hope [the object of] which is seen is not hope. For how can one hope for what he already sees?


Second Death: Lake of Fire=
Romans 8

(Concordant Translation)
Rev 2:11 "'"Who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying to the ecclesias (Church or called out). "'"The one who is conquering may under no circumstances be injured by the second death."

(KJV)
Rev. 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

(Concordant Translation)
Rev 20:6 Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has no jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.






 
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Benoni

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"The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and liveth unto God, and so fulfilleth all righteousness.

The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, which is life and peace, which transformation is wrought by a dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because -- the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe.

Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God and into the realm of carnality, minding self and flesh. Now God makes death overcome itself. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises an upspringing, a new life. It takes death to destroy death, and thus Christ 'did taste death for every man' --'that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage' (Heb. 2:9, 14-15). Since we are all under the effects of the first death, it is appointed unto us to die once more -- not physical death, we are already in a state of mortality -- but now a dying out to this present death state. We conquer this death of the carnal mind by dying to it -- only God could use such a process bringing victory, but praise God, lie is destroying the first death with the second death"

 
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yeshuasavedme

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I have read your post and have disputed hell as not even part of the original language of the Bible, nor do I even care about the book of Enoch. I guarantee I know the OT and the NT.
Jesus gave full acceptance to the writings found in 1 Enoch, and so you are against what Jesus taught as doctrine, which was confirmed by Him, from Enoch, but which was not new, not unknown, about Himself as the Son of Man [to come], and about the removal of all the wicked from the earth at His [second] coming; and about their being cast into the everlasting fire, which is only described in 1 Enoch; and about where they are held, beneath earth, until the day of the casting into the Abyss of fire; where they will suffer in the blackness of darkness forever.
And that is "the death" all the wicked will die, when they are removed from all Light, and are cast into the outer darkness and "never see His face again"; and suffer torments forever, in that shame and utter, absolute black darkness; where the flames burn hotter than fire, and without ceasing.

Jesus acknowledges the two places which are described in 1 Enoch, and His doctrine does not contradict those two revelations, in the least, but as I said, confirms and supports them.

The first death is what we are all existing in since the fall of "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:38;], as described in Genesis 3. The first death is separation from the Glory of the Father, indwelling, and is what departed at the fall of Adam; and that departure is the reason we who are all "Adam/man" [as called/named, in the Word], wear clothes to cover the shame of that glory and presence gone, and the subsequent vanity of our being, as we continue to come forth in our being and to exist, in this same state of shame.


Jesus tasted the [first] death of all Adam, when on the cross the Father laid on His soul the sins and iniquities of the entire race of Adam [which Adam/man race He is the near Kinsman, of, as the second Man], and the Father turned from Him. That is the moment in which He tasted our death, while alive in body, on the cross.
"My God, My God! Why have You forsaken Me", was the cry.......and Jesus died of a broken heart, giving up the "ghost", and departing to the "wilderness", to dump those sins and iniquities on the "one" who was cursed to have them given to him [as pr. Enoch] and who was cast into darkness 'in the wilderness', and to whom all sin was to be given, and who will suffer the torments of those sins in the darkness of blackness, which is the abyss, and is the second death, forever.

In 1 Enoch we discover that the fallen son of God, Azazel, was to be "given" all sin, and to be covered/bound in the wilderness, in darkness, until the day of his removal from there, when he will receive the just damnation which is already passed on him, as recorded in the book of 1 Enoch; and that is when he will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the abyss, where he will be tormented forever and forever.

In the Living Oracles of God's pattern and plan for the salvation of all born in Adam [for whosoever will receive Him], once, yearly, on the Day of Atonement, a goat was chosen by lot to have all the sins and iniquities of the people laid on him by the High Priest's laying hands on him and confessing those sins and iniquities of the nation. That goat was sent into the wilderness, "for Azazel", to remove those sins from the nation.
Jesus' soul was the "goat/lamb" chosen "for Azazel", in the OT, and the reason that He was, is only to be discovered by reading 1 Enoch, and understanding from there that Azazel gets all sin delivered to him by the goat "chosen" to have those sins symbolically laid on him [as described in the Oracles committed only to the namesake nation], and sent away, "to Azazel", into the wilderness, bearing those sins to give him.

Azazel is translated from the Hebrew into an English word, "scapegoat", in the OT, and perhaps you need to go study the Living Oracles and read up on ancient Jewish practices for the Day of Atonement, as they are the types and symbols of all God's one plan for salvation for all in Adam; and to understand the types and symbols, you need to go read 1 Enoch, which explains the reasons the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and why He had to come forth in the pre-appointed season, to fulfill all that was written about Him, and why a people was chosen to receive the knowledge of His New Man name and be saved "in that name".

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles [abc's] of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


 
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