Is he/she REALLY a Christian?

[SearchingWisdom]

I deserve everything that was stated to me out of the information I gave. I was trying to give encouragement to watch our actions (because of what "outsiders" or atheists see, such as my old friend stating I am the only Christian he met that is "kind" and etc) and I was also mentioning to be careful, because you do not know if people just claim the title.

There was more to this man than I posted about, but I didn't want to get in the "poor me" thing. But from the information I gave...I truly deserve to be put in my place and I love you all for it. I am looking to always improve myself and I do not have (nor did I ever have) Christian friends. So, it is good that you show me love by letting me know when I am wrong.

I should probably make one thing clear though. I do not think making out is wrong (some of you might), but it was forced on me (and that I find unloving). He did not beat me, he did not try to rape me...but he would not let go of me and kept kissing me wildly. Then he also said some things about other people towards the end of the date (before he did this) that were cruel and I felt very wrong. Also, he called me when I left (he said he started drinking whisky when I left) with the most off the wall and crazy comments. Cruel things, but then he apologized the next day..blamed it on the whisky and wanted to go out again, because I am so "hot".

He did NOT hurt me and I do not want anyone to think that. But after he called me when I was leaving in my car and said the things he did...that was when I knew for sure I did the right thing by leaving.

So, I was not mad that he wanted to make out...(but I didn't want to make out with someone I didn't know) and I sure hated it being forced. His actions were violent towards unanimated objects, but he never once laid a hand on me in a way that would cause pain.

I am leaving a little out, because I will NOT play victim here. I just want to give you enough to where you can fairly "judge" me. If you still feel I did the wrong thing or am a person judging someone I do not know...please tell me. I need to know so that I can change.

This man may have really believed he was Christian, but everything the Bible teaches...he did not follow, because they are "guide lines"...he told me this when he was trying to make out with me. But again, even though his actions were violent he never hit me or tried to rape me.

 

[SonicBOOM]

SW I do not think your in the wrong for questioning his commitment to Christ. While I do not believe in a gospel of works I do believe there needs to be some level of change and actual repenting when your a christian. This is a christain doctrine and its called regeneration and sanctification. Regeneration is being reborn anew and sanctification is growing in this newness..... so no I do not think your in the wrong.

Plus I do not think people can really use the copout "well you don't know their hearts". I think you can judge a person's heart rather easy by their actions and additudes. Jesus said that our hearts overflow and spill out of our mouths. I think it's safe to say this implies to actions as well.

 

[SearchingWisdom]

OK, SonicBoom; thank you!

 

[KingCrimson250]

I really think that this guy needs some solid mentoring and guidance in his life. That being said, obviously you aren't the one to do it because he'd probably just see it as an opportunity to get some action going.

 

[JonMiller]

"By their fruit you will know them"

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

JM

 

[LoneSheep]

Forced making out? You know, one of the definitions of rape is: "an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse".

Like I say to so many of my female friends who go through the same thing sometimes: most of them men you meet will be dirtbags of the highest caliber due to much practice. Usually these dirtbags collect together, so if you see one, normally you will find more. If you are looking for someone who isn't a dirtbag you usually don't look where the dirtbags are. Sometimes you meet a nice guy in the odd location, but that is unusual.

 

[ethan03]

Hi everyone!

I've been reminded of my past friends recently and it made me start thinking about those who claim to be Christians. My friends had never claimed to be Christians, but they never announced they were atheists. If they were asked...they would tell anyone the truth. I respect people for admitting who they really are.

But, I have ran across men who have claimed to be Christian. But they walk a walk of a nonbeliever. One man that took me out was rather nice, until I didn't give him what he wanted. It was the first date (and only) and he was so sweet, we talked about the Bible, different workouts, and about education. It was fun...but when it was getting time for me to head home...he was pushy about making out then got really mean when I just would not budge. I felt like he might hit me, but he didn't.

I called up my best friend (at the time) and told him what had just happened.

Once my friend esablished that I was safe and away from the situation he preceded to tell me that is what these "Christians" are and that I would be better of with an atheist. He said Christians say one thing and act another. That Christians say atheists are so bad and it is really the Christians that are "evil" people. My friend told me that I am the only Christian he has ever known that truly walks the talk, loves people, and who treats everyone (atheists and different religions) as though they are just as good as myself.

Of course...people are just as good as myself...I am no better or worse.

But...it is true. There are so many people that label themselves as "Christian" and are far from it. What we do everyday is what people will associate with "all" Christians. Be careful ladies about putting yourself in a situation with men you do not know. They may not be "true" Christians.

And men...try not to think all women are the same...even if you tend to run into a lot of us that claim to be Christian and are mean to you.

yeah he may have said Christians are one thing and act another, but what does he know of being a Christian if he isn't one himself.

you know what being a Christian is for yourself.
to me it seems your friend is someone who has had been an aggressive skeptic towards Christians rather than for seeing what Christians really are.

 

[SearchingWisdom]

Yeah...you're probably right about everything. There are a lot of great guys out there. I don't even look anymore...you guys just show up...such as on this forum.

Forced making out? You know, one of the definitions of rape is: "an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse".

Like I say to so many of my female friends who go through the same thing sometimes: most of them men you meet will be dirtbags of the highest caliber due to much practice. Usually these dirtbags collect together, so if you see one, normally you will find more. If you are looking for someone who isn't a dirtbag you usually don't look where the dirtbags are. Sometimes you meet a nice guy in the odd location, but that is unusual.

 

[Mikeb85]

Paul Washer gives a pretty good explanation for why this happens and why this is so rampant in America. He says our alter calls are to blame. We teach people that all they have to do is say "yes" to Jesus and they are in.... no matter what. He says we than reinforce this against their doubts by saying that their "prayer of salvation" has full authority and we are to take it by faith.

However he says that true salvation is a supernatural working of God and He has to spiritually reserect a dead man. He says true change happens to true believers because God comes and changes their hearts. He says because we do evangelism wrong we are guilty of misleading millions of people into damnation.

Good post.

 

[SearchingWisdom]

yeah he may have said Christians are one thing and act another, but what does he know of being a Christian if he isn't one himself.

you know what being a Christian is for yourself.
to me it seems your friend is someone who has had been an aggressive skeptic towards Christians rather than for seeing what Christians really are.

I know that my friend did not understand,but this is what he always saw. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute...

Say you don't believe there is a God...God is a fairy tale in your mind. Now, someone who says to you that you are going to Hell, because you do not believe in his fairy tale. You will be damned for the rest of your life. And then he is the same guy that punched your sister in the face.

Now, pretend your mother in a believer in God and she beat you up everyday of your life, but went the Church every Sunday. She says, "God is so wonderful" and "Just talk to God..." She is always giving out advice and donating money to people. But as soon as that door shuts the smile disappears and she kicks you until you can't move anymore.

(None of these things happened to him they are just examples).

Now back to reality...if that stuff happened to you...could you truly believe. Yes, you could, but you would have to be strong and know who God really was. I have meant plenty of cruel people who were "Christians", but I have also been fortunate to know cruel people who are not. So, I see evil no matter what a person labels themselves.

But I have also seen WONDERFUL people of many religions and atheists. There is good and evil...no matter what label. But my friend only knew of two kinds of people at the time...Christian and atheist. He knew nonbelievers were cruel too, but at least they did not claim to be "Godly" and turn around and practice another nature.

My friend was never aggressive towards anyone. He was a kind safe person to go to in need. Yes, he was imperfect and sometimes wasn't wise on the decisions he made, but he was a good man. He never put me down for being a Christian (even when my own family did). AND he and his brother each took a Bible from me and read some of it, because they knew it meant something to me. My friend tried to understand Christianity a little more, because I was so dedicated to this fairy tale. He witnessed a lot of junk from hypocrites that it made it hard for him to want to be a part of that world.

To my knowledge...he is still not a believer, but maybe someday he will be.

 

[SearchingWisdom]

"By their fruit you will know them"

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

JM

 

[ido]

I don't judge whether or not someone is REALLY a Christian b/c I don't know their heart or the demons that plague them that might cause them to act the way they act. I get tired of hearing how hypocritical Christians are. Christians aren't perfect and anyone who expects us to be has unrealistic expectations, IMO.

Do I think that gives us free reign to behave however we want? No. I try to live according to the Word and the Fruits of the Spirit - but I stumble and fall just like the next person. Some people just stumble and fall more often than others - it doesn't make them any more or less of a Christian; it just means they struggle more to walk in the path God has chosen for them.

IDK - I just don't think I need to spend my time qualifiying people's spiritual lives. If they do harmful/hurtful things to me, I forgive them but do not keep them close to me in my life. If at all possible I end all communication with them - but if I have to continue to interact with them, I find a way to do it that isn't judgemental or disrespectful.

JMHO

 

[Oddish]

Good post Finative, I needed to read that .

 

[KingCrimson250]

I don't judge whether or not someone is REALLY a Christian b/c I don't know their heart or the demons that plague them that might cause them to act the way they act. I get tired of hearing how hypocritical Christians are. Christians aren't perfect and anyone who expects us to be has unrealistic expectations, IMO.

Do I think that gives us free reign to behave however we want? No. I try to live according to the Word and the Fruits of the Spirit - but I stumble and fall just like the next person. Some people just stumble and fall more often than others - it doesn't make them any more or less of a Christian; it just means they struggle more to walk in the path God has chosen for them.

IDK - I just don't think I need to spend my time qualifiying people's spiritual lives. If they do harmful/hurtful things to me, I forgive them but do not keep them close to me in my life. If at all possible I end all communication with them - but if I have to continue to interact with them, I find a way to do it that isn't judgemental or disrespectful.

JMHO

Absolutely. Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[Luther073082]

I don't judge whether or not someone is REALLY a Christian b/c I don't know their heart or the demons that plague them that might cause them to act the way they act. I get tired of hearing how hypocritical Christians are. Christians aren't perfect and anyone who expects us to be has unrealistic expectations, IMO.

Do I think that gives us free reign to behave however we want? No. I try to live according to the Word and the Fruits of the Spirit - but I stumble and fall just like the next person. Some people just stumble and fall more often than others - it doesn't make them any more or less of a Christian; it just means they struggle more to walk in the path God has chosen for them.

IDK - I just don't think I need to spend my time qualifiying people's spiritual lives. If they do harmful/hurtful things to me, I forgive them but do not keep them close to me in my life. If at all possible I end all communication with them - but if I have to continue to interact with them, I find a way to do it that isn't judgemental or disrespectful.

JMHO

Perhaps true, but for dating purposes especially, you would want to be certain that you are with someone who's at least making an effort to allow Christ to take over their life.

When there is the slightest hint of effort I like to give it the benefit of the doubt. But you can't ignore that a large number of people claim to be Christians but in practice do not put any effort or true faith into it.

I think for the most part its probably not a question that should be considered, but if you are going to date someone, its something you kind of have to know.

 

[GQ Chris]

Just goes to show that when someone "professes" the name of Christian, doesn't really make it so.

 

[GQ Chris]

You will know them by their fruits.

 

[deepgreen11]

You will know them by their fruits.

True to say...however...

I was in a Bible study tonight and it was mentioned that, "judicially", as one might say, someone who was once a sinner and totally without Christ accepts Christ but doesn't always immediately forsake a "sinful" lifestyle. here we have someone that many refer to as a "sinning believer"--someone who has accepted Christ's gift, but not all of the "Lordship" aspects of having Christ as Lord. Some people can go on like this because they may not realize that they have to change. However, I would argue that in this instance, we still cannot say they are "unsaved", for they have accepted the "righteousness of faith in the Grace of the cross", but rather, are a "sinning believer" and need guidance in their lifestyle so that it is made to more closely align with Christ's character.

Also, we cannot forget about the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-2322But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.), and that these probably begin to appear as the heart changes. As Christ changes our hearts, often, if it is genuine, the actions will follow. Sometimes, however, there is a period of time where the believer lives with an uncomfortable inconsistency between what they feel in their hearts and how they live. This is the conviction that prompts them to correct.

Also, please allow me to add: 2 Corinthians 5:17-17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

These scriptures make me inside!

 

[GQ Chris]

Well then I guess its better to say, its probably best to avoid the situation of getting together with a professed believer who's lifestyle is contradictory to what they profess and people would save themselves some unnecessary trouble.

 

[SonicBOOM]

True to say...however...

I was in a Bible study tonight and it was mentioned that, "judicially", as one might say, someone who was once a sinner and totally without Christ accepts Christ but doesn't always immediately forsake a "sinful" lifestyle. here we have someone that many refer to as a "sinning believer"--someone who has accepted Christ's gift, but not all of the "Lordship" aspects of having Christ as Lord. Some people can go on like this because they may not realize that they have to change. However, I would argue that in this instance, we still cannot say they are "unsaved", for they have accepted the "righteousness of faith in the Grace of the cross", but rather, are a "sinning believer" and need guidance in their lifestyle so that it is made to more closely align with Christ's character.

Also, we cannot forget about the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-2322But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.), and that these probably begin to appear as the heart changes. As Christ changes our hearts, often, if it is genuine, the actions will follow. Sometimes, however, there is a period of time where the believer lives with an uncomfortable inconsistency between what they feel in their hearts and how they live. This is the conviction that prompts them to correct.

Also, please allow me to add: 2 Corinthians 5:17-17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

These scriptures make me inside!

no one would know about this more than me sense this describes my own conversion to Christ. I often doubted my salvation early on because despite my best efforts I simply could not get free of sin..... but my point is is that I wanted to and I wanted nothing more. the true sign of a true converted believer is not morel successes. This I agree with. however the sign of a true believer is the desire and downright desperation to actully want to live right. No matter how sinful the christain is living if he sincerely hates that part of himself and wants change desperatly than he is a true beleiver no ifs ands or buts..... however if a person goes on sinning and has no desire to change, he is confronted with his sin and gets upset and uses the word "grace" 10,000 times.... than I might have to quistion.