Is he/she REALLY a Christian?

[SearchingWisdom]

Hi everyone!

I've been reminded of my past friends recently and it made me start thinking about those who claim to be Christians. My friends had never claimed to be Christians, but they never announced they were atheists. If they were asked...they would tell anyone the truth. I respect people for admitting who they really are.

But, I have ran across men who have claimed to be Christian. But they walk a walk of a nonbeliever. One man that took me out was rather nice, until I didn't give him what he wanted. It was the first date (and only) and he was so sweet, we talked about the Bible, different workouts, and about education. It was fun...but when it was getting time for me to head home...he was pushy about making out then got really mean when I just would not budge. I felt like he might hit me, but he didn't.

I called up my best friend (at the time) and told him what had just happened.

Once my friend esablished that I was safe and away from the situation he preceded to tell me that is what these "Christians" are and that I would be better of with an atheist. He said Christians say one thing and act another. That Christians say atheists are so bad and it is really the Christians that are "evil" people. My friend told me that I am the only Christian he has ever known that truly walks the talk, loves people, and who treats everyone (atheists and different religions) as though they are just as good as myself.

Of course...people are just as good as myself...I am no better or worse.

But...it is true. There are so many people that label themselves as "Christian" and are far from it. What we do everyday is what people will associate with "all" Christians. Be careful ladies about putting yourself in a situation with men you do not know. They may not be "true" Christians.

And men...try not to think all women are the same...even if you tend to run into a lot of us that claim to be Christian and are mean to you.

 

[namelessjuan]

 

[SonicBOOM]

Paul Washer gives a pretty good explanation for why this happens and why this is so rampant in America. He says our alter calls are to blame. We teach people that all they have to do is say "yes" to Jesus and they are in.... no matter what. He says we than reinforce this against their doubts by saying that their "prayer of salvation" has full authority and we are to take it by faith.

However he says that true salvation is a supernatural working of God and He has to spiritually reserect a dead man. He says true change happens to true believers because God comes and changes their hearts. He says because we do evangelism wrong we are guilty of misleading millions of people into damnation.

 

[LoneSheep]

I think for too long the term "Christian" has been thrown around too easily. Some people think that being a Christian means knowing who Jesus is and going to church, but never really understanding what it is to live in Christ (I used to be one of those people).

Running into these people is probably going to be common. Obviously these wolves in sheep's clothing are going to be exposed at some point, some sooner than others (as seen on the bad date).

I think if I was actually going around attracting all these "Christian" women, I would look for some sign of the gifts of the Spirit and a compatible personality (plus being a little attractive helps) .

 

[JonMiller]

There are a lot of Christian hypocrites out there.

This made me not want to be part of organized Christianity for a while.

But the fact that many Christians (who claim the name) aren't Christians (Followers of Christ) is the reason why it is important to get to know even Christians well rather than just assuming that they would make a good partner for you.

Following Christ will result in a transformation of the inside man, through Christ working within us, and we will bear fruit (the fruits of the spirit).

JM

 

[timbo81]

anyone can claim to be a christian for whatever reason, there's no laws against it.

it's unfortunate but I don't think it's a fair reflection on christianity by non-believers to judge us all like that.

 

[Sketcher]

Ironically, this is why I'd rather talk about a lot of things other than faith when getting to know a woman. You go to church, and you can talk up a good game. That's great. But what kind of a person are you when you're not at church? That's how I can tell if you're practicing your faith.

 

[alfrodull]

The whole concept of "true" Christianity kind of disgusts me. I mean, nobody's perfect, and nobody truly knows what anyone else's relationship with God I like. And to top it off, various denominations can't agree on more than the most basic doctrine. If somebody claims to be Christian, I'm not going to question that, even if their views on life vary greatly from my own.

This isn't saying you should compromise your own boundaries, of course, or date someone who doesn't respect them. Just don't "excommunicate" someone who has different ones.

 

[SonicBOOM]

The whole concept of "true" Christianity kind of disgusts me. I mean, nobody's perfect, and nobody truly knows what anyone else's relationship with God I like. And to top it off, various denominations can't agree on more than the most basic doctrine. If somebody claims to be Christian, I'm not going to question that, even if their views on life vary greatly from my own.

This isn't saying you should compromise your own boundaries, of course, or date someone who doesn't respect them. Just don't "excommunicate" someone who has different ones.

this goes far beyond petty differences though Alfro.... The idea of "hey I'm a Christian! Lets sin!" is as old as the new testament. Actually being a christian is being something! You can't just say you follow someone or something and not act like it, no matter what you beleive!

Nobody is perfect and I make my fair share of mistakes.... but if they are the split image of how they were before they followed Christ than why bother following him at all? It obviously isn't true for them and they are wasting their time. Follow Him or don't, but do not say you follow Him and act like you don't. I beleive this is what Jesus finds so disgusting about lukewarm christainity. I mean it begs the quistion "why bother?? Are you in or out? make up your mind?"

 

[alfrodull]

this goes far beyond petty differences though Alfro.... The idea of "hey I'm a Christian! Lets sin!" is as old as the new testament. Actually being a christian is being something! You can't just say you follow someone or something and not act like it, no matter what you beleive!

Nobody is perfect and I make my fair share of mistakes.... but if they are the split image of how they were before they followed Christ than why bother following him at all? It obviously isn't true for them and they are wasting their time. Follow Him or don't, but do not say you follow Him and act like you don't. I beleive this is what Jesus finds so disgusting about lukewarm christainity. I mean it begs the quistion "why bother?? Are you in or out? make up your mind?"

My point was that not everyone agrees on whether some things are sins. I have met devout (not necessarily correct, but devout) Christians that found making out, even premarital sex, are perfectly acceptable.

Yes, there are hypocrites who do not practice what they preach, but even that doesn't make them unchrisitan. That's not for us to judge.

 

[SonicBOOM]

My point was that not everyone agrees on whether some things are sins. I have met devout (not necessarily correct, but devout) Christians that found making out, even premarital sex, are perfectly acceptable.

Yes, there are hypocrites who do not practice what they preach, but even that doesn't make them unchristian. That's not for us to judge.

there's the petty and there's the absolute. The petty disagreements shouldn't matter, however there are things written in stone that all christains should agree on. I do not think making out is one of those written in stone things. However premarital sex IS and I will stick to that come hell high water. Like I said Jesus told us to count the cost of dicipleship. If it's to much for someone to pay than walk away like the rich young ruler did. I have no fear of someone walking away because those who truly desire the way of christainity will also desire the things that Christainity tells us is right.

Jesus never told us to not make a judgement. He said "do not judge" as in preconceived judgements. Matthew has Jesus saying "do not judge, less you be judged" however John has Jesus saying "stop judging on mere appearences and make a right judgement". So I'm not afraid to judge, so long as the judgement is right and pure.

Like I said being a christain is being something, following Jesus is following someone. You get this whatever you beleive. Atheists are expected to not beleive in God or gods. Jews are expected to beleive that Jesus is not the messiah [among other things]. EVERYTHING has something you are expected to beleive if you are in that group. That is the very strings that hold it together.

 

[trentlogain2]

Paul Washer gives a pretty good explanation for why this happens and why this is so rampant in America. He says our alter calls are to blame. We teach people that all they have to do is say "yes" to Jesus and they are in.... no matter what. He says we than reinforce this against their doubts by saying that their "prayer of salvation" has full authority and we are to take it by faith.

However he says that true salvation is a supernatural working of God and He has to spiritually reserect a dead man. He says true change happens to true believers because God comes and changes their hearts. He says because we do evangelism wrong we are guilty of misleading millions of people into damnation.

I'm not looking to argue here. Nor am I going to say anything negative about you or Paul Washer, but the entire premise you just laid out is utter nonsense and unbiblical. How is an invitation to blame for false professing Christians? There are many types of invitations. I'm not going to post my opinion on which ones are better than the others. That's not the point.The bottom line is The Bible gives us a clear understanding of what happens when the Word of God is preached or taught in truth, [Luke 8:5-13] and the person doesn't end up getting saved by hearing it.

As for Mr. Washer stating that we do evangelism wrong and by it we're sending millions to hell, I'm not even going to touch on tonight.

 

[KingCrimson250]

The whole concept of "true" Christianity kind of disgusts me. I mean, nobody's perfect, and nobody truly knows what anyone else's relationship with God I like. And to top it off, various denominations can't agree on more than the most basic doctrine. If somebody claims to be Christian, I'm not going to question that, even if their views on life vary greatly from my own.

This isn't saying you should compromise your own boundaries, of course, or date someone who doesn't respect them. Just don't "excommunicate" someone who has different ones.

I more or less agree, and with that in mind I'd like to address the OP: Is it really fair to start slagging off this guy as not being a Christian because of what he did? I dunno, the thread doesn't sit well with me. First because we can't really know what was actually going on, and by that I mean maybe the guy was from Circumstances, you know? Maybe he had a very rough relationship with his mother and this makes it difficult for him to respect women. Maybe he was sexually abused as a child and forcing himself on others is just how he understands relationships, it's the only thing he knows. Maybe he is bipolar and his sex drive is so off the charts that he can't control it. There are all sorts of different possible explanations for his behaviour, and while that might not make him an attractive person for a relationship, and it might not necessarily excuse what he did, it would mean that he could very well be a Godly man who is a genuine Christian.

Second, I dislike in general how I often see people who kind of sit there and judge the behaviour of another Christian and try to determine if they are "worthy" or not. Sure we're called to hold each other accountable, but that is active, not passive. Too often people are content to just sit and judge without actually coming alongside the person and trying to interface with them. Let's face it, if someone claims to be a Christian, but they aren't living their lives for Christ at all, then it's because they've built a barrier between themselves and God. That could be because they wanted to, it could have been in response to other things that happened in their life, whatever. Either way, I think we've got a responsibility to build a relationship and dialogue with them, and if it turns out that they've turned away from God, or that they never knew Him in the first place, try to point them back in His direction. There is nothing, I repeat; absolutely NOTHING to be gained from sitting on the sidelines and saying "Tsk tsk, that young man isn't living out what he believes." If you're sick of "fake" Christians, then do something about it. Sometimes they'll surprise you. I know a few people who get dismissed by many of the "serious" Christians who know them as being a lukewarm Christian, but when you get to know them they actually have a massive heart for God. They don't show this often, though, because previous negative experiences with the church cause them to wall themselves off from a lot of Christians.

 

[Stravinsk]

Premarital sex is a sin.

And it is rarely mentioned as among those things that God has particular distaste for. Although it is mentioned, it is not a focal point at all in the bible.

The sins in the bible that always get the most attention are those having to do with:

1) Pride, haughtiness, ill-will towards men,malice, violence and hatred
2) False worship, or worship of other "gods" or idols
3) Falsehood
4) Selfishness and greediness
5) Adultery

And, like it or not, not Keeping the Sabbath(Saturday). It is the biggest reason the Israelites were given over to Babylon: Eze 20:13,16,21,24. Jesus didn't teach any different: Matt 24:20

I'm not trying to excuse or wave away premarital sex as a sin. I just think that the focus on it in rank of importance, or as a measurement of character is skewed.

I've met and known some pretty "puffed up", and some real arrogant "Christians" who may be proud of their virginity or that they waited till marriage but who nevertheless have been blinded by their lack of focus on more important aspects of the faith.

 

[deepgreen11]

double double post post

 

[deepgreen11]

This whole thread is somewhat sticky to me.

The reason being, I can name a whole lot of things that have been taught to me as being "Christian" things to do, and "unChristian" things to do.
You, in the OP, brought up atheists as well, and the difference between those being what they choose to do and not do. This, I must point out, is shaky ground to walk on. You are addressing actions that to some, even to some Christians, are part of an accepted moral code. The argument is that it is acceptable.

I have decided that I will not try to judge for myself whether anyone is a Christian. This may seem odd--let me expand on this point. I have learned that when someone professes with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, the next expected step that we look for is some kind of change in lifestyle or higher level of righteousness. However, labeling it "acting Christian" and "acting unChristian" just isn't an accurate labeling system-- I am a follower of Christ (and, for the record, try to use other terms than "Christian" to define myself because it has been so muddied, and I do like to be clear) but I do not always act in the way that many people, including myself (because I believe Christ does call us to a standard, maybe not out of always "because I said so", but because it seems that it is actually quite expedient for our lives and for this Gospel we love and carry) believe a Christian should behave.

It's really hard to judge and play this game. I mean, on one hand, God is the judge of all, and salvation is worked by grace and through faith, and on the other "we know others by their fruits". This are all things I've heard on the front of determining another's Christianity. I decide this: I am a follower of Christ. I am a follower of Christ all the time, to all people, regardless. I do my best to live out my faith, but have made some mistakes, and have some regrets. I aim to make my closest friends and my dating relationships with those who also profess that Christ is their Lord. If they start acting in a way I dislike, I question their actions, I perhaps question their motives, but never their status of salvation.

For the record, also, I'm sorry that man made an unwanted advance toward you and scared you. I am glad you are safe.

 

[JonMiller]

Premarital sex is a sin.

And it is rarely mentioned as among those things that God has particular distaste for. Although it is mentioned, it is not a focal point at all in the bible.

The sins in the bible that always get the most attention are those having to do with:

1) Pride, haughtiness, ill-will towards men,malice, violence and hatred
2) False worship, or worship of other "gods" or idols
3) Falsehood
4) Selfishness and greediness
5) Adultery

And, like it or not, not Keeping the Sabbath(Saturday). It is the biggest reason the Israelites were given over to Babylon: Eze 20:13,16,21,24. Jesus didn't teach any different: Matt 24:20

I'm not trying to excuse or wave away premarital sex as a sin. I just think that the focus on it in rank of importance, or as a measurement of character is skewed.

I've met and known some pretty "puffed up", and some real arrogant "Christians" who may be proud of their virginity or that they waited till marriage but who nevertheless have been blinded by their lack of focus on more important aspects of the faith.

There is a fair bit on sex, some of it is just fornication...

But yeah, I Agree, many get over focused on some one thing and ignore the more important things like mercy and justice and humbleness.

JM

 

[scraparcs]

Shall I mention it's also possible a man is neither Christian nor atheist?

 

[SonicBOOM]

Shall I mention it's also possible a man is neither Christian nor atheist?

haha how so?

 

[Luther073082]

Blind post. In modern society, being a Christian to many people means that you belive that there is a God and that you might occasionally go to church.

My mother calls herself a Christian but completely rejects the bible and believes that God pretty much agrees with anything she does.