Is God sovereign over the Paris shootings?

com7fy8

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And this :)

"Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:21)

People of ISIS were made "from the same lump" as members of the Boston Tea Party. Or, is that a clear example ?
 
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Job8

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I'm not saying God caused the sin. I'm saying that He planned it (crucifying Christ was a sin). God wanted the crucifixion to occur. He planned and orchestrated it. How is He then not responsible?
Please review post #148. There is both predetermination and foreknowledge involved. If you are unable to accept that balance, then it seriously alters the truth that God is Light, and IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL.
 
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royal priest

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And this :)

"Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:21)

People of ISIS were made "from the same lump" as members of the Boston Tea Party. Or, is that a clear example ?
We ought to think of the two different lumps in terms of those people God has mercy on and those people whom He hardens (the saved and unsaved). God's mercy is not as evident in our political perspectives so much as in our perspective as having Christ as our Lord and Savior.
 
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Hammster

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Please review post #148. There is both predetermination and foreknowledge involved. If you are unable to accept that balance, then it seriously alters the truth that God is Light, and IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL.
But there is predetermination, correct? I mean, the plan did work out as He intended, right?
 
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royal priest

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Please review post #148. There is both predetermination and foreknowledge involved. If you are unable to accept that balance, then it seriously alters the truth that God is Light, and IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL.
The balance of God's involvement with the Creation is not limited to mere predetermination and foreknowledge. God is active in every part of His Creation. He did not wind up Creation as if it were a clock, and sit back while future events unfolded. That would be determinism. Rather, God works in and through every aspect of human activity. In Him we live and move and have our being (Acts of the Apostles 17:24-28). So much so that Lydia would not have believed if the Lord had not opened her heart (Acts of the Apostles 16:14). Nor would the Gentiles have believed had not God appointed them unto eternal life (Acts of the Apostles 13:48).
The reality that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all does not limit His power over evil creatures and their evil works. The fact that God commissions evil beings to commit evil does not diminish His holiness. Surely, it was no secret to the seraphim and cherubim that God had commissioned the Devil to afflict Job. Or that He commissioned the lying the spirit to deceive Jehoshaphat. Yet they continually cry, "holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty. The whole earth is full of His glory." It seems that events such as these would only contribute to the inspiration of such praise.
 
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com7fy8

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Hmm, Royal Priest, I think that's good, what you have shared, and with scripture I did not think of. I am more intellectual in how I see that, but you use scripture with more personal things, of what actually has happened with people, and how ones are personally praising God.

Oh, by the way, we have how things worked out for Joseph > Genesis 37-50 > how such evil was done to Joseph, yet God not only delivered Joseph from that evil, but many people were helped because of how God blessed and used Joseph . . . including rescuing his own brothers who betrayed him and their father, and then getting into family loving with them (Genesis 50:15-21). So, God in His sovereign control is bringing His children to good and being able to love any and all people while growing in family caring and sharing love . . . in spite of whatever evil is done to them > like how Paul and Timothy and Silvanus went through such hard things but stayed with being so loving > for example > 1 Thessalonians 2:6-12.

God works in and through every aspect of human activity.
Our Apostle Paul says >

"For whom he foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

So, predestination is mainly about having "many brethren" for Jesus. And this includes how we will "be conformed to His image". So, Biblical predestination is not mainly about if God decides and controls who He saves and who He doesn't. Plus, certainly predestination is not concerned with how much a human in one's own ego has free will to make choices. What matters is how our Father is so pleased with His Son Jesus, that He desires to have "many brethren" who are pleasing to Him like Jesus is so delighting.

And Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart", He says in Matthew 11:28-30, and He guarantees how we "will find rest for your souls", if we learn from Jesus. Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart", and part of our basic calling as children of God is how we become gentle and humble in love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

In such loving we are being conformed to the image of Jesus, by loving the way He loves any and all people (see also 1 John 4:17). And as we become so sacrificed to loving, we become sweetly pleasing to our Father, like Jesus >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

This, I understand, then, is the main focus of predestination. So, protecting Paris would not be a priority, if God is mainly about having children who are being conformed to the image of His Son Jesus. Evil, "of course", can't stop God from doing this, nor can accusing and blaming God!! So, it is not a priority, now, for God to stop evil or prove Himself to people who are just trying to judge God.

And if people are not living for God, then, it is not a number one priority to keep them from evil and how evil can effect worldly people emotionally. If we are strong in God's love, though, His almighty power of His love keeps us from fear > 1 John 4:18 > and from being hurt emotionally and spiritually > 1 Peter 3:13.

So, instead of blaming God for not preventing the Paris thing, get into Jesus and how His love makes us strong so evil can not decide how we are and what we do.

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)
 
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Hammster

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But that's not the topic of this thread that you have started!

Hi Oz. How have you been?

While to comment may not address the topic directly, it did follow the flow of the conversation.

Btw, I noticed you didn't address the OP. Perhaps you could do that before putting on your referee uniform.
 
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OzSpen

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Hi Oz. How have you been?

While to comment may not address the topic directly, it did follow the flow of the conversation.

Btw, I noticed you didn't address the OP. Perhaps you could do that before putting on your referee uniform.

I addressed the comment you made. Is that no longer OK when responding to you?
 
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Hammster

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I addressed the comment you made. Is that no longer OK when responding to you?
You had not addressed the OP. I just figured it was good form when first entering a discussion. Maybe that's just me. But jumping in and being critical doesn't seem the way to go. But you do your thing. :)
 
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OzSpen

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I do. It's still a sinful act.

So what is the relationship of God's sovereignty to the individual sinful act of the rapist?

Getting back to the OP: What is the relationship of God's sovereignty in the Paris terrorism to the sinful acts of the terrorists, organised by Daesh, who committed the evil?
 
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Hammster

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So what is the relationship of God's sovereignty to the individual sinful act of the rapist?

Getting back to the OP: What is the relationship of God's sovereignty in the Paris terrorism to the sinful acts of the terrorists, organised by Daesh, who committed the evil?
The relationship to His sovereignty is that if He had no purpose for it, He could have stopped it. So the fact that it happened means there was a purpose.
 
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OzSpen

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The relationship to His sovereignty is that if He had no purpose for it, He could have stopped it. So the fact that it happened means there was a purpose.

This is something about which you and I agree!
 
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