Is God a liar?

[Open Heart]

I would totally disagree the voice of the Earth is the Voice of God as well. No where does the Bible claimed the Voice of the Earth is God's voice.

The earth is God's creation. Nature is God's first revelation. It speaks for God the way a song speaks for a composer, or the way a picture speaks for an artist. If you want to know how old a picture is, you would certainly examine the picture.

 

[Smidlee]

The earth is God's creation. Nature is God's first revelation. It speaks for God the way a song speaks for a composer, or the way a picture speaks for an artist. If you want to know how old a picture is, you would certainly examine the picture.

Where in scripture does God claim the voice of nature is the voice of God?
In the book of Job , Job friends thought they have God all figured out while God asked Job " Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?"

You got revelation then you got speculation. God claim He spoke the universe into existence. Man can create his universes the same way.

 

[Open Heart]

Where in scripture does God claim the voice of nature is the voice of God?

Creation always speaks for the Creator. I thought I did a good job explaining that. I also think its self obvious.

 

[Smidlee]

Creation always speaks for the Creator. I thought I did a good job explaining that. I also think its self obvious.

The creation may speak of the Creator but it surely doesn't speak for God. That's what the pagans thought.

 

[Calminian]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

Open Heart, I noticed you are not open to the possibility at all that man could be wrong about his naturalistic speculations. Why is this? Why would you question God before questioning man? Why do you have so much faith in what man says, considering how often he has changed his theories over the centuries?

 

[Calminian]

...It says He created heaven and earth. Then it says the earth was without form and void and the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters-----It doesn't say how much time elapsed between making the earth and God's Spirit moving upon the waters.....

Actually it does. You'll noticed that God sandwiches the 6 days of creation in-between two "heaven and earth" statements. The first is in 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... The second is in verse 2:1 Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished,....

We find the six days between those two merisms meaning the six days are actually the beginning spoken of in 1:1. This is why Christ said God created Adam and Eve from the beginning of creation (Mark 10:6). This is why Moses said, "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them...."

It's impossible, exegetically, to separate the beginning from the six days. I guess we just have to trust God knows more about origins that modern atheistic scientists.

 

[Open Heart]

Open Heart, I noticed you are not open to the possibility at all that man could be wrong about his naturalistic speculations. Why is this? Why would you question God before questioning man? Why do you have so much faith in what man says, considering how often he has changed his theories over the centuries?

It's not a matter of what man says, but of what God says through his creation.

 

[Calminian]

It's not a matter of what man says, but of what God says through his creation.

What does God say through creation? And who's doing the interpreting of creation? And why do they keep changing their minds? Many whom you're looking to who advocate billions of years don't even believe in God. And you seem to believe they should be elevated over the plain clear reading of Genesis. Why are you so quick to dismiss the text written by the Holy Spirit over men who have advocated everything from geocentrism to the big bang?

I look at creation and think the idea of billions of years is silly. Why would God need billions of years? Look how fast He made wine, and fish and bread.

 

[Open Heart]

What does God say through creation? And who's doing the interpreting of creation?

Who is doing the interpretation of Genesis, and why do they disagree?

 

[Calminian]

Who is doing the interpretation of Genesis, and why do they disagree?

The scientists you are following! Don't you realize yesterday's science books are today's joke books? Secular scientists used to promote geocentrism, and ironically, the church backed them. Now they're saying that an infinitely small infinitely dense singularity expanded for no reason uncaused into the universe we see today. Tomorrow, who knows what they'll come up with.

Open Heart, what do you see when you look up in the sky? Do you really see 13.7 billion years of expansion? Or do you see the geocentrism of yesterday? Or do you see perhaps a new view that's not been thought of yet?

 

[Open Heart]

The scientists you are following

I'm talking about the Christians who interpret Genesis and can't agree upon it.

 

[Calminian]

I'm talking about the Christians who interpret Genesis and can't agree upon it.

Well you said, "All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds." This is what man says.

Then you said, "It's not a matter of what man says, but of what God says through his creation." So I'm asking, what is God telling you through creation? What do you believe God is saying?

 

[Open Heart]

Then you said

Then I asked you who interprets Genesis and why do they disagree. You are having problems with reading, I take it.

 

[Calminian]

Then I asked you who interprets Genesis and why do they disagree. You are having problems with reading, I take it.

No, I just want to know why you keep dodging my question. You come in here very pompous accusing YEC's of making God a liar. Then you get rude when someone asks you a simple question.

The reason people now see millions of years in the book of Genesis is because they're trying to harmonize it with modern science. These views never existed more than a couple hundred years ago. Those who read the book without outside influence, looking for the author's intent, see it as a six day creation.

The question I have for you is, what do you see in creation? Are you afraid to answer?

 

[Open Heart]

The question I have for you is, what do you see in creation? Are you afraid to answer?

I see a creation myth, the point of which is that God created. Our job as Christians is to get the lesson being taught, not making it into a science text.

 

[Open Heart]

The question I have for you is, what do you see in creation? Are you afraid to answer?

Sorry, I misread this the first time around.

I've already answered this a dozen times. Scroll back and actually read the thread before you get snarky with me. When I look at creation I see the fingerprint of the Creator.

 

[mmksparbud]

Actually it does. You'll noticed that God sandwiches the 6 days of creation in-between two "heaven and earth" statements. The first is in 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... The second is in verse 2:1 Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished,....

We find the six days between those two merisms meaning the six days are actually the beginning spoken of in 1:1. This is why Christ said God created Adam and Eve from the beginning of creation (Mark 10:6). This is why Moses said, "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them...."

It's impossible, exegetically, to separate the beginning from the six days. I guess we just have to trust God knows more about origins that modern atheistic scientists.

I think I didn't state what I meant very clearly--I mean, it says God created the heaven and the earth. Then it says the earth was void and without form---I've just always had it in mind that it meant He created this apparently empty, unshaped thing called earth--and the heaven it was in. Then it says the spirit of God moved upon the waters.--No mention of creating the waters. Why couldn't it be that He essentially created this asteroid type creation, and set up for the waters to be forming (it does say later that no rain fell, just a mist.) and then came back to create all the rest in the six days? As later it says He divides the waters. So from setting the asteroid in place to the actual start of creating in the six days, could have been eons. Not that He needed to do that, just that He may have chosen to do that.
The translations vary from singular heaven and earth, to plural heavens and earth. Which, though a little confusing, I don't know is of any significance. The "thus the heavens and earth were finished" doesn't seem to rule out that possibility--to me anyway. So the rocks and water could have been going through eons of sitting here misting till the deep formed.
Just wondering. I mean, it is not necessary to know every detail, He said all we need to know, the rest is speculation--but kinda interesting anyway. I will still choose 6 days for everything over any theistic interpretation.

 

[Open Heart]

He created this apparently empty, unshaped thing called earth--and the heaven it was in. Then it says the spirit of God moved upon the waters.--No mention of creating the waters.

Right. All the heavens and the earth were completely formed before the specifics of life began in the 6 days of creation, according to the story.

 

[Calminian]

Sorry, I misread this the first time around.

I've already answered this a dozen times. Scroll back and actually read the thread before you get snarky with me. When I look at creation I see the fingerprint of the Creator.

Boy you're a dodgy one.

 

[Calminian]

...The translations vary from singular heaven and earth, to plural heavens and earth.

Not in the hebrew. shamayim is a plural form.

The "thus the heavens and earth were finished" doesn't seem to rule out that possibility--to me anyway. ....

Consider though the plain reading of the text. Why the need to see a gap? Christ didn't see a gap. He said, "from the beginning of creation God made them male and female." Consider also Ex. 20:11. "in six days God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them." If that's true, there couldn't have been a creation prior to the six days. All that was created was created in the six days."

Consider also the existence of death and suffering. Did these enter the world prior to Adam? Millions of years prior?

Or are they the result of Adam's sin?