Is God a liar?

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Ted. If you are dating the rock based on two dozen different ways we have, you are definitely not lying.

Hi OH,

No, if I believe that my testing methods are dependable, then when I make claims based on those methods, I am not lying. But, if the information I am giving is wrong because the testing methods are not as reliable as I believe them to be, then neither am I telling the truth.

This is, of course, based on our defining a liar as someone who consciously knows that he is not telling the truth.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
But, if the information I am giving is wrong because the testing methods are not as reliable as I believe them to be, then neither am I telling the truth.
We have about three dozen different way of dating the earth and they all conclude it is billions of years old. Are you saying that ALL of these ways are unreliable? Are you serious?????
 
Upvote 0

Willtor

Not just any Willtor... The Mighty Willtor
Apr 23, 2005
9,713
1,429
43
Cambridge
Visit site
✟32,287.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We have about three dozen different way of dating the earth and they all conclude it is billions of years old. Are you saying that ALL of these ways are unreliable? Are you serious?????

Added to this: We have many more means for dating it to more than 100,000 years.
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We have about three dozen different way of dating the earth and they all conclude it is billions of years old. Are you saying that ALL of these ways are unreliable? Are you serious?????

Hi OC,

Yes, I am completely serious. When God does a miracle there is no way for man to explain it, but that doesn't stop us from trying. Perhaps it would be good to read Paul's admonition to us about this.

All methods of dating are based on the first and foremost assumption that everything has always worked as it works today.

Let me offer an example: The Scriptures tell us that when the Israelites moved through the sea bed on dry ground, there was a wall of water on both their right hand and left. That is an impossibility! We cannot make water stand one foot high, let alone the several dozen feet that would have been the depth of this sea. If the sea were only one foot deep, then the Israelites would have just marched right through it. They wouldn't have stood and cried out to Moses that they were now caught between the sea and the Egyptian army and would surely die in the desert. They would have just walked right on through. So, let's say for arguments sake that the sea had to be at least 6 feet deep. When you can make water stand unaided six feet high let me know.

I lived through one of the worst hurricanes that the US has experienced. When the waters flooded the low lying homes of south miami-dade county, they didn't come as a wall of water. As the hurricane neared landfall the force of winds pushed the water in front of it and it rose to its higher level, but not as a wall. It just rose up rather gradually and as it rose above the land in front of it, it flooded the land. I have similarly witnessed tornadoes, both on land and sea. There is no wall of water created when a tornado passes over water. The spout itself will take up some water but the sea surrounding it remains pretty much the same as it was.

When we date things upon the earth we generally find some atomic formation and by knowing how long it takes for the atomic formation to break down, we then measure what is in the sample and extrapolate that back to a date. We look at diamonds and oil and opals and understand that they are formed by great pressures and long ages. However, in reasonably natural mimicking experiments, we can make all those things in a much, much shorter period of time. Now the detractors will agree that yes we can, but then say that that doesn't, in itself, mean that these things were created in a short amount of time. While I wholeheartedly agree that it doesn't give any proof that such things were created in a reasonably short period of time, it also doesn't rule out the possibility that they were.

When the world was subjected to the world wide flood of Noah's day I imagine that there were a lot of things that happened upon the earth that we will never have any way of being able to replicate to find out what they were. However, the flood, as described in the Scriptures, brought billions of tons of weight and sediment upon things that were on the earth's surface. If such a flood did occur, then the formation of oil, opals and diamonds could well have been very, very rapid. However, there is no way to either prove or disprove what happened in the flood beyond what the Scriptures tell us.

For me, I believe God. When God tells me something and man tells me something that contradicts with that, I'm standing with God.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

Willtor

Not just any Willtor... The Mighty Willtor
Apr 23, 2005
9,713
1,429
43
Cambridge
Visit site
✟32,287.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Including the fact that modern man has been around twice that long.

Including that.

I specifically meant dating methods that are sort of open ended but unambiguously >>> 10,000 years, like dendrochronology or carbon dating. They don't tell us that the Earth is ~4.5 billion years old, but they clearly tell us that it isn't 10,000.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
When we date things upon the earth we generally find some atomic formation and by knowing how long it takes for the atomic formation to break down, we then measure what is in the sample and extrapolate that back to a date. We look at diamonds and oil and opals and understand that they are formed by great pressures and long ages. However, in reasonably natural mimicking experiments, we can make all those things in a much, much shorter period of time.
It isn't just radiometric dating, nor is just the amount of time it takes for diamonds to form. Follow this link and check out the 36 different ways that we know the Earth isn't young.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation
 
Upvote 0

Smidlee

Veteran
May 21, 2004
7,076
749
NC, USA
✟21,162.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Man can make diamonds so you have a problem with God doing the same? Most of these assumptions are base on man's theory how the universe is first created , stars , planets, etc. If their assumption of how our solar system was created is wrong then you can throw all those ages in the trash. A lot of the assumption they made about the planets have been found wrong.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
I pray this is not a serious question... God is not, nor could He ever be a liar, the Bible clearly states that.
My assumption is that everyone will find the suggestion that God is a liar outrageous. And so the suggestion that the earth is 6000 years old IS just that outrageous.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It isn't just radiometric dating, nor is just the amount of time it takes for diamonds to form. Follow this link and check out the 36 different ways that we know the Earth isn't young.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation

Hi OH,

I have seen the link before. You do realize that wiki is a user fact site, right? Anyone can post what they believe there. You will also find that for many of their 'proofs' against the claims given for a young earth that they often say, "just because it can happen, doesn't mean that it did." That isn't really any kind of proof, but merely an explanation that either position could be correct. Listen friend, you are free to believe whatever you believe is the truth. I've already found my source.

God has caused to be written to us that He created this realm in six days and described each day as consisting of an evening and a morning. For me, this would preclude any ideas that the days were eons. He then tells us that He created the first man Adam and the first woman Eve and gives an accounting of the years from Adam to Noah to Abraham and then to the 12 brothers settling in Egypt. From there, non-biblical history gives us a fairly clear understanding of a rough timeline. There are many who believe as I do, that this realm in which we live, all the stars of the universe and all that is in and on the earth is about 6,000 years old. If we are correct, and it is in agreement with the Scriptures, then there is no other option than to know that the wisdom of our scientific method is wrong. It's really just that simple. Can I prove that it's wrong or where the error might occur? No, I'm not that smart a guy. But, I can say with full assurance that it is and the only one I need to convince is myself. Nowhere in the Scriptures does God hold any individual responsible for what others believe. We are just asked to speak the truth in love.

Paul warns us in the first chapter of Romans that the world has believed a lie. He then tells us that because we have believed the lie and not been faithful to God, that God's anger seethes against us. Paul also writes that we should not be swayed by arguments based on the natural properties of things. Finally, we are fully warned that God Himself has caused a great delusion to fall upon the ungodly. Based on all of this, I'm very careful that I don't believe the lie and am not swayed by arguments based on the natural properties of things. I believe God! You see, friend, whenever I am asked to believe something that the majority of the world's people believe, I am immediately suspect of that belief. Jesus tells us that the world will hate us and that the world will not understand the truth. I get that.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

Willtor

Not just any Willtor... The Mighty Willtor
Apr 23, 2005
9,713
1,429
43
Cambridge
Visit site
✟32,287.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I pray this is not a serious question... God is not, nor could He ever be a liar, the Bible clearly states that.

As for evidences of an old earth, that's bogus, please YouTube Kent Hovind. If there is any evidence at all, it would point to a young earth.

I'm afraid Kent Hovind is so dishonest that even other creationist organizations will have nothing to do with him. He basically makes up his facts, wholesale. You will never see him cited on a creationist organization website.
 
Upvote 0

mizzkittenzz

Active Member
May 23, 2015
31
11
33
Va/Nc
✟224.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm afraid Kent Hovind is so dishonest that even other creationist organizations will have nothing to do with him. He basically makes up his facts, wholesale. You will never see him cited on a creationist organization website.

I doubt it, don't let him being in prison because of the governments lies make you question the truth.
 
Upvote 0

Willtor

Not just any Willtor... The Mighty Willtor
Apr 23, 2005
9,713
1,429
43
Cambridge
Visit site
✟32,287.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I doubt it, don't let him being in prison because of the governments lies make you question the truth.

It's not about that. If it were, why would the big creationist organizations have web pages dedicated to how creationists should not use his arguments?

Kent Hovind is a fraud. The creationist organizations know he's a fraud and they don't associate with him. These are people who you would expect to be a part of his own community.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Smidlee

Veteran
May 21, 2004
7,076
749
NC, USA
✟21,162.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
My assumption is that everyone will find the suggestion that God is a liar outrageous. And so the suggestion that the earth is 6000 years old IS just that outrageous.
I disagree 100% since suggesting God is a liar is against the Bible which I believe is the "word of God" while believing a young earth is not.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
I disagree 100% since suggesting God is a liar is against the Bible which I believe is the "word of God" while believing a young earth is not.
I didn't suggest God was a liar. I asked a rhetorical question the answer to which was NO. Sheesh. What I was saying is that saying that the earth is 6000 years old calls God a liar, which is outrageous. Why is this so hard for some people to get?
 
Upvote 0

Smidlee

Veteran
May 21, 2004
7,076
749
NC, USA
✟21,162.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I didn't suggest God was a liar. I asked a rhetorical question the answer to which was NO. Sheesh. What I was saying is that saying that the earth is 6000 years old calls God a liar, which is outrageous. Why is this so hard for some people to get?
I understood what you are saying. You seem to be suggesting the voice of "the scientist" are the voice of God. I strongly disagree with that assumption. The universe could be 6000 years old without touching the character of God.

There are good men who believe in Old Earth but not because "Thus saith the scientist."
For example Vermon McGee believe the earth was old but had no faith in science (including YEC) because it continually changing. Scofield believe in the old earth but neither of them believed in man's evolution.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
I understood what you are saying. You seem to be suggesting the voice of the scientist are the voice of God. I strongly disagree with that assumption. The universe could be 6000 years old without touching the character of God.
It is the voice of the Earth that is the voice of God. The scientist merely has a good set of ears.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Smidlee

Veteran
May 21, 2004
7,076
749
NC, USA
✟21,162.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It is the voice of the Earth that is the voice of God. The scientist merely has a good set of ears.
I would totally disagree the voice of the Earth is the Voice of God as well. No where does the Bible claimed the Voice of the Earth is God's voice. Time and time again in scriptures God prove He was greater than any force of nature.
 
Upvote 0