Indigenous Peoples Day/Columbus Day?

[PreachersWife2004]

Do you find it hypocritical how some people can completely ignore the holocaust against the indigenous people of North America, yet if someone says anything against Israel, or the holocaust against Jews, these same people act as if only a monster could ignore or wash over such a thing?

Were the Jews infighting amongst themselves and killing off other tribes?

I don't excuse genocide but I am really tired of the thought process that Native Americans were innocent little lambs led to the slaughter. Their violence to each other is just as palpable, and I refuse to celebrate either.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

That is one of the most ludicrous statements I have seen here. Most white males of the 15th century were serfs or peasants toiling in the fields for their lords and were in no position to do any of the things you are accusing them of.

erm, what were the Lords then?

Oddly enough, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. We know now that Native Americans can be wonderful people. Back then, though, Columbus had NEVER EVER met people like this before.

 

[Albion]

And then lost one of his ships along the way and from what I understand got stranded on one of the islands in the Caribbean chain for a couple of weeks until he was rescued. Talk about an incompetent arrogant fool that got lucky.

He did what no one had been able to do before...but there were some setbacks, so he was just an incompetent fool. And arrogant, too,

I'm afraid to ask what you, or anyone else here for that matter, have done lately that rivals crossing the ocean in a tiny wooden boat powered only by wind.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I'm sorry that you appear to have some baggage around 'Happy Holidays'. Maybe start a thread on it, in the "I'm being oppressed" section? Let's see, which is worse - hearing people say "Happy Holidays" to you, or getting enslaved?

In Christ-

Papias

Abraham Lincoln believed in white supremacy, and he's on every penny and five dollar bill. It's funny when you think about a black kid dressing up as Abraham Lincoln for history class.

It's about the historical significance of men, and they don't need to have some ridiculous moral grading to them. Martin Luther was extremely antisemitic, and some of your own popes killed innocent people. I don't see anyone running up a wall about that.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Are we seriously disputing Columbus Day on account of him being like virtually every white man of the 15th century?


Political correctness strikes again. First, replacing Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays, and now Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples Day.
It's cringing to the brain.

No sir. Political correctness means that you mislabel issues in order to feel better about ignoring them. This is pointing out history for the sake of clarity and putting emphasis on the antagonist. If anything we are being anti- politically correct. We are being honest and truthful.

I know that might look like we are crowding on a band wagon, but the reason we are is because the truth was ignored so that Macys could have their parade. (SARCASM ALERT) not directed at you, my friend, but toward the power of mass delusion at the corporate level.
You have a wonderful day.

 

[Albion]

Yes, they did. In fact, many of the slaves obtained by later slave traders were obtained by Native populations who had taken them from other tribes.




I do, but I'm wondering which Native American person who obtained and sold hundreds of people of any race, as slaves, has a federal holiday?

I have commented on that, but the proposal is not to simply drop Columbus Day; it's to replace it with Indig...well, you know.

I explained that no one was perfect in an earlier post, and why it's still wrong in my view to have a Columbus day, yet you characterize the objection to Columbus day as a PC gimmick. I'm sorry you see things this way.

I don't mind that you're sorry about it, but it's certainly an exercise in Political Correctness. How anyone could deny that, I can't imagine

 

[grasping the after wind]

erm, what were the Lords then?

A few priviledged people. Not the millions that did not do the things that Papias has claimed all 15th century white males did.

Virtually every white man of the 15th century enslaved and sold hundreds of people, including girls ages 9 and 10 for sex slaves?

Virtually every white man of the 15th century had peoples hand cut off and hung around their necks, had people killed by dogs, cut off peoples tongues, and so on?

 

[Albion]

You've misread Papias' post, but the point was that these things were considered acceptable in 15th century Europe. It's not a matter of how many people personally were engaged in any of it.

 

[Black Dog]

Were the Jews infighting amongst themselves and killing off other tribes?

I don't excuse genocide but I am really tired of the thought process that Native Americans were innocent little lambs led to the slaughter. Their violence to each other is just as palpable, and I refuse to celebrate either.

Nice strawman about infighting.

Native Americans are no more deserving of holocaust than the Jews.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Nice strawman about infighting.

Native Americans are no more deserving of holocaust than the Jews.

No one is saying they are but that's quite a strawman YOU have built. People say "why are we honoring this man who killed a lot of Indians?" and then in the same breath saying "Let's honor these other people who killed other Indians!"

I think the idea that Columbus just decided to wipe all these Indians out like Hitler did with the Jews is far-fetched. You're talking two very different time periods and two very different mindsets.

Most lands historically have been plundered, raided, and conquered.

 

[grasping the after wind]

You've misread Papias' post, but the point was that these things were considered acceptable in 15th century Europe. It's not a matter of how many people personally were engaged in any of it.

I quoted the post verbatim. It made a claim that was absolutely incorrect. We in this century have little to go on about what was considered acceptable to the vast majority of males living in Europe or Asia that were white in the 15th Century. For the most part, We only have the writings and records of those that were among that privileged few. What peasants considered to be right and proper is not easily discernible.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

He did what no one had been able to do before...but there were some setbacks, so he was just an incompetent fool. And arrogant, too,

I'm afraid to ask what you, or anyone else here for that matter, have done lately that rivals crossing the ocean in a tiny wooden boat powered only by wind.

He did what no one ever did before because all the pieces were in place and he was just the smuck that fell out of the wood chip pile at the right time and at the right place.

If The Muslims had not have been pushed out of the territory Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon would have never had a united Spain to fund the expedition and the Spanish Inquisition would never have created the massive amount of undesirable that would man his ships. If I remember history correctly, his men were about to use him for a tea bag and drop him in the ocean the very night in which land was discovered. Columbus actually nailed a gold piece to the main mast to be claimed by the first man to sight land.

a lookout spied land in the early hours of the day, but Columbus stated that he had seen land earlier that night and took the piece for himself. Quality guy there.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

He did what no one ever did before because all the pieces were in place and he was just the smuck that fell out of the wood chip pile at the right time and at the right place.

If The Muslims had not have been pushed out of the territory Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon would have never had a united Spain to fund the expedition and the Spanish Inquisition would never have created the massive amount of undesirable that would man his ships. If I remember history correctly, his men were about to use him for a tea bag and drop him in the ocean the very night in which land was discovered. Columbus actually nailed a gold piece to the main mast to be claimed by the first man to sight land.

a lookout spied land in the early hours of the day, but Columbus stated that he had seen land earlier that night and took the piece for himself. Quality guy there.

Where did that last gem come from?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Might as well start planning on renaming Thanksgiving too.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

He did what no one had been able to do before...but there were some setbacks, so he was just an incompetent fool. And arrogant, too,

I'm afraid to ask what you, or anyone else here for that matter, have done lately that rivals crossing the ocean in a tiny wooden boat powered only by wind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition

 

[Papias]

Might as well start planning on renaming Thanksgiving too.

Refresh my memory - which genocidal slave trader is Thanksgiving personally named after?

 

[Red Fox]

"Once again, it's time to celebrate Columbus Day. Yet, the stunning truth is: If Christopher Columbus were alive today, he would be put on trial for crimes against humanity. Columbus' reign of terror, as documented by noted historians, was so bloody, his legacy so unspeakably cruel, that Columbus makes a modern villain like Saddam Hussein look like a pale codfish.

Question: Why do we honor a man who, if he were alive today, would almost certainly be sitting on Death Row awaiting execution?

If you'd like to know the true story about Christopher Columbus, please read on. But I warn you, it's not for the faint of heart."

Columbus Day? True Legacy: Cruelty and Slavery

News Source: Huff Post Politics

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Where did that last gem come from?

An account of the journey. I remember reading about it. It was a long time ago, but I will research it for you,If you would like. If I can't find it, I will update this thread with that information.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Refresh my memory - which genocidal slave trader is Thanksgiving personally named after?

Never said it was.

for your reading pleasure:
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2012/11/20/dark-origins-thanksgiving/

 

[mmksparbud]

Might as well start planning on renaming Thanksgiving too.

It does not celebrate anything other than being thankful for food, shelter and friends and all the blessings we have. It does not celebrate one individual, or even culture, but an idea--gratitude. Anyone, in any country can celebrate it- we equate it with the Indians bringing food and helping the first settlers survive--it does not celebrate the killing of anyone but the spirit of different cultures working together. Or that is what it's supposed to celebrate! It gets very little attention between the 2 big "give me" holidays---Halloween and Christmas.