If we can lose salvation, we better be sure we know how to re-capture salvation before perishing-

FreeGrace2

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Jesus is Light of the world; in Him there is no darkness! If one is in the dark, they are not in Jesus! Yet, you want to put children of the Light in the dark.
Context determines the meaning of words. Jesus' parable is clear enough.

Are you sure you want to use this for believers? BELIEVERS ARE NOT IN DARKNESS
Those believers who can't stay for the wedding banquet will be sent out. In the story line, the wedding banquet of the middle east was used as a way to understand what Jesus was teaching. His point was that unprepared believers will not take part in the wedding banquet. That's ALL.

Regarding 1 Thess 5, darkness and light is used to refer to lifestyle of unbeliever and believer. And believers' lifestyle CAN be "in darkness".

These verses go against anything you believe about darkness. Maybe you should find what I asked for, verses which describe believers as being in darkness.
I did. But you didn't like them.

The more I see of your interpretations, the farther away I will stay from them.
Your choice.

I find it instructive that my explanation of 1 Thess 5:4-10 wasn't refuted, only disagreed with. So it appears that there isn't a better explanation to present.
 
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EmSw

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Context determines the meaning of words. Jesus' parable is clear enough.

Those believers who can't stay for the wedding banquet will be sent out. In the story line, the wedding banquet of the middle east was used as a way to understand what Jesus was teaching. His point was that unprepared believers will not take part in the wedding banquet. That's ALL.

Regarding 1 Thess 5, darkness and light is used to refer to lifestyle of unbeliever and believer. And believers' lifestyle CAN be "in darkness".

I did. But you didn't like them.

Your choice.

I find it instructive that my explanation of 1 Thess 5:4-10 wasn't refuted, only disagreed with. So it appears that there isn't a better explanation to present.

You have your agenda to defend. I understand you must have believers in darkness or your whole belief system crashes. I wonder if this is why some of the OSASer's live in darkness. It's part of their beliefs.
 
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FreeGrace2

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You have your agenda to defend.
You're welcome to your own opinions, but my only goal is to defend Scripture.

I understand you must have believers in darkness or your whole belief system crashes. I wonder if this is why some of the OSASer's live in darkness. It's part of their beliefs.
Why "must I"? Could you at least provide some explanation for your bizarre statements?
 
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EmSw

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You're welcome to your own opinions, but my only goal is to defend Scripture.

The Scripture doesn't need defending, especially by man's earthly interpretations.

Why "must I"? Could you at least provide some explanation for your bizarre statements?

You still haven't acknowledged the Bible says the New Jerusalem is the bride, the Lamb's wife.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"You're welcome to your own opinions, but my only goal is to defend Scripture."
The Scripture doesn't need defending, especially by man's earthly interpretations.
Just a quick glance at all the threads on this forum proves how much Scripture needs defending.

You still haven't acknowledged the Bible says the New Jerusalem is the bride, the Lamb's wife.
The Lamb's Bride is the Church. Period. And I provided a very reasonable explanation of what your quoted verse is about.

Taking that verse strictly literally is why Scripture needs to be defended. From false doctrine.

btw, you posted this:
"I understand you must have believers in darkness or your whole belief system crashes. I wonder if this is why some of the OSASer's live in darkness. It's part of their beliefs."

And I responded with this:
"Why "must I"? Could you at least provide some explanation for your bizarre statements?"

Apparently can't even do that.
 
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EmSw

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I said this:
"You're welcome to your own opinions, but my only goal is to defend Scripture."

Just a quick glance at all the threads on this forum proves how much Scripture needs defending.

I'm sorry to disappoint you FG2, but God doesn't need you to defend His Holy Word. His Word is sharper than a two-edged sword. You will only get in the way and mess it up, if you try to play the role of God.

The Lamb's Bride is the Church. Period. And I provided a very reasonable explanation of what your quoted verse is about.

Not only do you add to the Word of God, but now you are taking the truth away from it.

Taking that verse strictly literally is why Scripture needs to be defended. From false doctrine.

btw, you posted this:
"I understand you must have believers in darkness or your whole belief system crashes. I wonder if this is why some of the OSASer's live in darkness. It's part of their beliefs."

And I responded with this:
"Why "must I"? Could you at least provide some explanation for your bizarre statements?"

Apparently can't even do that.

It just messes with your mind, much like 'outer darkness' does.
 
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I'm sorry to disappoint you FG2, but God doesn't need you to defend His Holy Word. His Word is sharper than a two-edged sword. You will only get in the way and mess it up, if you try to play the role of God.

Ephesians 5:22-24 "Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything."
 
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EmSw

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Ephesians 5:22-24 "Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything."

1 Peter 3:1
Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives,
 
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Problem of OSAS:

“In a town of ultimate boredom called Mundane, there was a great announcement. It was the announcement of a race. A great race that all could enter. A race that would rescue them from boredom. Most people did not believe that such an event would be held in Mundane so they scoffed. Others immediately prepared with great enthusiasm and joy.

Both the scoffers and the enthusiasts arrived at the appointed place on the day of the race. The scoffers sat and watched while the others prepared to run by stretching and making sure their shoes were tied. They lined up, looking ahead with the intensity, fear, and excitement that accompanied such an event.

The gun sounded and off they went. Yet something very curious and unexplainable happened. They all stopped running after they had passed the starting line. Not only this, but they acted very peculiar. One person fell on his knees crying, thanking God that he crossed the starting line. Others gave each other high fives and hugs, as they shouted, “Hooray, we are now race runners, we are now race runners.” Some shook hands and congratulated each other. One group relaxed and complemented one another on how well they crossed the starting line. Five or six others all gathered together and formed a prayer circle. They prayed that others would cross the starting line as they had.

Many others wanted to experience this joy so they decided to start the race as well. They were immediately stopped by the well-wishers who had started before them. They decided to stay as well. After a few days, there were people handing out pamphlets along with a certificate to all those who crossed the starting line. The pamphlet told them that once they had started the race they were guaranteed to finish. The certificate was to recognize their achievement in finishing the race even before they finished. It became very high on the agenda of all the race runners to make sure that people who had started knew of their assurance of completion. So much so that there was a printing press built right at the starting gate which produced millions of the pamphlets.

After a few months, there were so many who had crossed the starting line that they decided to build a town right there. They called this town “Starting Line Village.”

The spectators were confused. “I thought a race had to be finished,” they said to one another. They interviewed the people of Starting Line Village. “Why did you start the race and not continue?” they would ask. This made the people of Starting Line Village very uncomfortable. They would immediately show their certificate saying that they were guaranteed to finish. When people would encourage them to run the rest of the race, they would be ridiculed for not trusting the pamphlet. They were called legalists and were accused of trusting too much in their own ability to finish the race rather than the words on the pamphlet.

Finally, many of the watchers in the crowd became fed up with those in Starting Line Village and decided to run the race themselves with the intent to finish. They refused the certificates and left the people of Starting Line Village to hand out the pamphlets alone.”

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/08/my-problems-with-once-saved-always-saved/
 
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bottomofsandal

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Problem of OSAS:

“In a town of ultimate boredom called Mundane, there was a great announcement. It was the announcement of a race. A great race that all could enter. A race that would rescue them from boredom. Most people did not believe that such an event would be held in Mundane so they scoffed. Others immediately prepared with great enthusiasm and joy.

Both the scoffers and the enthusiasts arrived at the appointed place on the day of the race. The scoffers sat and watched while the others prepared to run by stretching and making sure their shoes were tied. They lined up, looking ahead with the intensity, fear, and excitement that accompanied such an event.

The gun sounded and off they went. Yet something very curious and unexplainable happened. They all stopped running after they had passed the starting line. Not only this, but they acted very peculiar. One person fell on his knees crying, thanking God that he crossed the starting line. Others gave each other high fives and hugs, as they shouted, “Hooray, we are now race runners, we are now race runners.” Some shook hands and congratulated each other. One group relaxed and complemented one another on how well they crossed the starting line. Five or six others all gathered together and formed a prayer circle. They prayed that others would cross the starting line as they had.

Many others wanted to experience this joy so they decided to start the race as well. They were immediately stopped by the well-wishers who had started before them. They decided to stay as well. After a few days, there were people handing out pamphlets along with a certificate to all those who crossed the starting line. The pamphlet told them that once they had started the race they were guaranteed to finish. The certificate was to recognize their achievement in finishing the race even before they finished. It became very high on the agenda of all the race runners to make sure that people who had started knew of their assurance of completion. So much so that there was a printing press built right at the starting gate which produced millions of the pamphlets.

After a few months, there were so many who had crossed the starting line that they decided to build a town right there. They called this town “Starting Line Village.”

The spectators were confused. “I thought a race had to be finished,” they said to one another. They interviewed the people of Starting Line Village. “Why did you start the race and not continue?” they would ask. This made the people of Starting Line Village very uncomfortable. They would immediately show their certificate saying that they were guaranteed to finish. When people would encourage them to run the rest of the race, they would be ridiculed for not trusting the pamphlet. They were called legalists and were accused of trusting too much in their own ability to finish the race rather than the words on the pamphlet.

Finally, many of the watchers in the crowd became fed up with those in Starting Line Village and decided to run the race themselves with the intent to finish. They refused the certificates and left the people of Starting Line Village to hand out the pamphlets alone.”

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/08/my-problems-with-once-saved-always-saved/
Jesus said, "It is finished"

Are we to finish what Jesus started and finished?



Why use these silly manmade fables, when God's Word is all sufficient?
 
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FreeGrace2

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I'm sorry to disappoint you FG2, but God doesn't need you to defend His Holy Word. His Word is sharper than a two-edged sword. You will only get in the way and mess it up, if you try to play the role of God.

Not only do you add to the Word of God, but now you are taking the truth away from it.

It just messes with your mind, much like 'outer darkness' does.
I can see that you're unable to refute my position, much less defend your own position, so I guess this discussion is over.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Problem of OSAS:

“In a town of ultimate boredom called Mundane......

There are no problems with eternal security. How can any of God's plans have problems? That makes no sense.

The problems all fall on the insecurity views.

1. So many conditions to keep in order to keep salvation.

2. So many sins that apparently Christ didn't die for and will get you to hell.

3. And, there is no support for loss of salvation in Scripture.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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Jesus said, "It is finished"

Are we to finish what Jesus started and finished?



Why use these silly manmade fables, when God's Word is all sufficient?
So your response is that Jesus finished the race for us so we dont even need to run it?
 
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There are no problems with eternal security.

Wrong. Here they are:

Parable of sower

Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13) "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away.

2 Fallen from grace passage:
Galatians 5:4 "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

3 Pruning passages:
John 15:5-6 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Romans 11:19-23 "You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again."

4 Hebrews Passages:
Hebrews 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."

Hebrews 10:38-39 "But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

5 Doctrinal Apostasy passages:

Acts 20:17,28-30 "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church." ... "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them."

1 Timothy 1:18-21 "fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are HYMENAEUS and Alexander"

2 Timothy 2:16-18 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are HYMENAEUS and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.

1 Timothy 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"

1 Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"-which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith."

2 Peter 2:1 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

2 Peter 3:17 "You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness"

2 John 8-9 "Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son."

6 Moral Apostasy passages:

1 Timothy 6:9-10 "But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang."

2 Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.""

James 5:19-20 "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins."

7 Revelation passages:

Revelation 2:4-5 "'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent."

Revelation 3:5 "'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

Revelation 3:16-17 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked"

8 Old Testament passages

Ezekiel 18:24-26 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? "When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die."
 
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bottomofsandal

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So your response is that Jesus finished the race for us so we dont even need to run it?
Please don't take offense, but the problem with these metaphors and analogies is they are not using God's wisdom like The Word contains, rather man's own imperfect words trying to describe spiritual matters, using earthly examples with carnal words. Flesh and blood cannot inherit The Kingdom of God.

Where is the starting line? How do I find it? Does anyone get a head start? What if it rains? Do I get a break? What if someone cheats? What if there is a false start? Are there age brackets? Is there paralymics? Can you see the futility of using earthly illustrations for Heavenly truths? We already have parables.

Who are you racing against and what is the reason?

Salvation, justification, sanctification, redemption et al are not about racing.

Let's talk about finishing and completion...like in Philippians 1:6

Who completes and finishes the work that He began in us?


What race are you trying to run brother?

We each have a race, a course, a purpose, a high calling.
 
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Please don't take offense, but the problem with these metaphors and analogies is they are not using God's wisdom like The Word contains, rather man's own imperfect words trying to describe spiritual matters, using earthly examples with carnal words. Flesh and blood cannot inherit The Kingdom of God.

Where is the starting line? How do I find it? Does anyone get a head start? What if it rains? Do I get a break? What if someone cheats? What if there is a false start? Are there age brackets? Is there paralymics? Can you see the futility of using earthly illustrations for Heavenly truths? We already have parables.

Who are you racing against and what is the reason?

Salvation, justification, sanctification, redemption et al are not about racing.

Let's talk about finishing and completion...like in Philippians 1:6

Who completes and finishes the work that He began in us?


What race are you trying to run brother?

We each have a race, a course, a purpose, a high calling.
The race is the same race that Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 9, Galatians 5, Hebrews 12, 2 Timothy 4.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So your response is that Jesus finished the race for us so we dont even need to run it?
Jesus finished the race, and now we are servants of the Winner! Now we are to spread the gospel so others know that Jesus finished the race.
 
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Jesus finished the race, and now we are servants of the Winner! Now we are to spread the gospel so others know that Jesus finished the race.
So what race is paul talking about?

Btw. You do realize that i am in no way suggesting that we are saved by works. Nor am i saying that we can loose our salvation by sin. I am saying that as long as we believe in Jesus, submit to His Lordship, and grow in our maturity by learning the Word...we are running the race. If we die as God loving christians, we finished the race and we get our reward. The race is an analogy of the olympics where the winner received a crown of leaves. These are the 5 heavenly crowns. We do not get a crown if we do not finish the race just like an olympian never got a crown by simply crossing the starting line.
 
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