If we can lose salvation, we better be sure we know how to re-capture salvation before perishing-

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know of a certain member on this forum that has told me they were a Christian for 40 years and now have decided to become athiest and are only here to try to "enlighten" the rest of us that Christianity isn't real. So those people clearly exist.

There's several groups, world wide, daily sending 'delegates'/ prompting their own members/ to come and stir up trouble. (check out their websites by googlle-searching).... this is in line with the agenda of some of the big groups for several hundred years (long before television/ media/ computers) ....

 

[ToBeLoved]

I know of a certain member on this forum that has told me they were a Christian for 40 years and now have decided to become athiest and are only here to try to "enlighten" the rest of us that Christianity isn't real. So those people clearly exist.

Wouldn't you say that that is an exception? And certainly I would wonder if that person really did reach out to God to be saved in the first place, but non-the less I just don't think we can approach the situation that way by default (not trying to bring them back to God).

I do realize that there may be situations where a person is very lost and/or very bitter. We do try though.

 

[Aldebaran]

Wouldn't you say that that is an exception? And certainly I would wonder if that person really did reach out to God to be saved in the first place, but non-the less I just don't think we can approach the situation that way by default (not trying to bring them back to God).

I do realize that there may be situations where a person is very lost and/or very bitter. We do try though.

I'm not sure how much of an exception it is. I've seen similar stories from other Athiests/Agnostics here. They are some of the most frequent posters on this site.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm not sure how much of an exception it is. I've seen similar stories from other Athiests/Agnostics here. They are some of the most frequent posters on this site.

I mean overall in life. Those who post here have an agenda. That is clear. They are trolling, I don't even know how much I believe that they were even really former Christians. Many have the "I was brought up Christian and went to church", but that is not a born again believer, going to church.

I talk to many non believers in real life and I don't find many former believers at all. It to me is odd and I've been a Christian for 35 years and on this earth for 47 years. How many have left your church for atheism over the years?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I talk to many non believers in real life and I don't find many former believers at all. It to me is odd and I've been a Christian for 35 years and on this earth for 47 years. How many have left your church for atheism over the years?

How many have you actually talked with about this ? There's a lot of people who are former believers who just don't talk about it unless you bring it up, and then sometimes with more conversation needed (as when you talk with someone directly in person about being saved - since most people are not saved, this provides a huge audience) .

Also a lot of people who think they are believers aren't , but are still acting like they are - I don't guess these count as 'former' believers since they were never believers to start with or ever in life.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm not sure how much of an exception it is. I've seen similar stories from other Athiests/Agnostics here. They are some of the most frequent posters on this site.

Please note in my response I said in real life. Anyone on the internet can say anything, especially an atheist who trolls a Christian Forum (not that I am calling them liars, but I have not found this to be true IRL.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How many have you actually talked with about this ? There's a lot of people who are former believers who just don't talk about it unless you bring it up, and then sometimes with more conversation needed (as when you talk with someone directly in person about being saved - since most people are not saved, this provides a huge audience) .

Also a lot of people who think they are believers aren't , but are still acting like they are - I don't guess these count as 'former' believers since they were never believers to start with or ever in life.

I hold to my viewpoint. I am not basing my opinion off an internet forum over my real life. I talk to a lot of unbelievers, they actually find me very non-judgemental for a Christian and I try to break things down for them. And I did say "born again Christians". Which indicates a personal relationship with Christ that they would have left for atheism.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Please note in my response I said in real life. Anyone on the internet can say anything, especially an atheist who trolls a Christian Forum (not that I am calling them liars, but I have not found this to be true IRL.

IRL ? Talk to more people directly with strong (or gentle) / pertinent questions and you may be shocked.
As it is written in Scripture,
I found it to be true : all men are liars (and just barely are the Righteous saved (yes, from lying); there are few willing to tell the TRUTH and live the TRUTH no matter what the price - thus, they lie) .

 

[ToBeLoved]

IRL ? Talk to more people directly with strong (or gentle) / pertinent questions and you may be shocked.
As it is written in Scripture,
I found it to be true : all men are liars (and just barely are the Righteous saved (yes, from lying); there are few willing to tell the TRUTH and live the TRUTH no matter what the price - thus, they lie) .

But, people don't have a reason to lie about their faith and if they left it.

People lie to themselves about salvation and Godliness, not that they left the faith.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Because the Bible tells us to.

Is that the only reason...because your commanded to? If OSAS is true, why would it matter in the end. Yes, they will miss out on many blessings but in the end it really doesn't matter. Because I believe in a thing called free will, I believe that an apostate is at real risk. So out of love and concern for their soul, I seek to bring them back.

Don't you want believers who stray to recover?

Yes...see above.

Why don't you believe that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable? The Bible is clear that it is irrevocable.

Why?... Because of the over 20 verses I listed in an earlier post. No. The bible is not clear. None of the early church farhers believed in OSAS. OSAS was a creation in the the 16th century by John Calvin. So if the bible is so clear on the issue, why did it take over 1500 years to figure out and people are still debating the issue?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Wouldn't you say that that is an exception? And certainly I would wonder if that person really did reach out to God to be saved in the first place, but non-the less I just don't think we can approach the situation that way by default (not trying to bring them back to God).

I do realize that there may be situations where a person is very lost and/or very bitter. We do try though.

Yes, it is a fact that some of the atheist who frequent this forum have grown up i the church and at one time considered themselves saved. Some even went to seminary and became ministers. Many atheist know more about scripture than most christians! So if you claim that they were never "truly saved" in the first place, how do you know you are "truly saved"?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is that the only reason...because your commanded to? If OSAS is true, why would it matter in the end.

I provided an answer.

Yes, they will miss out on many blessings but in the end it really doesn't matter.

What, exactly, "doesn't matter in the end"?? What are you getting at?

Because I believe in a thing called free will, I believe that an apostate is at real risk.

I too, believe that mankind has free will. And that apostates are at real risk. But just not about losing salvation.

So out of love and concern for their soul, I seek to bring them back.

So, you believe that salvation can be re-gained. What does the person need to do specifically? And provide Scripture that clearly indicates that what they do will re-gain salvation. Otherwise, it is only speculation or assumption.

I said this:
"Why don't you believe that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable? The Bible is clear that it is irrevocable."

Why?... Because of the over 20 verses I listed in an earlier post. No. The bible is not clear.

Well, at least you're honest about not understanding what the Bible teaches.

In spite of the Bible SAYING that eternal life is a gift of God AND that God's gifts are irrevocable, you obviously don't believe what the Bible SAYS.

None of the early church farhers believed in OSAS. OSAS was a creation in the the 16th century by John Calvin.

Nonsense.

So if the bible is so clear on the issue, why did it take over 1500 years to figure out and people are still debating the issue?

It has been pointed out to you that NONE of the verses you or anyone else on your side has provided clearly states anything about loss of salvation, yet you believe that anyway.

And there IS clear Scripture that eternal life is irrevocable, yet you don't believe that.

If the Bible isn't clear, then the Holy Spirit FAILED to communicate the Word of God. And look at the resultant mess. It makes no sense to believe that the Bible didn't lay out all of God's plans in an understandable way.

otoh, the devil is the "deceiver of the world", per Rev 12:9 - And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Since he can't keep believers from heaven, the next best thing is to deceive them into believing false doctrine, which creates debate and divisions among believers.

 

[ToBeLoved]

IRL ? Talk to more people directly with strong (or gentle) / pertinent questions and you may be shocked.
As it is written in Scripture,
I found it to be true : all men are liars (and just barely are the Righteous saved (yes, from lying); there are few willing to tell the TRUTH and live the TRUTH no matter what the price - thus, they lie) .

What if you are lying about them being liars? You said all men lie

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thus, TEST EVERYTHING. Even if from a so-called ANGEL OF LIGHT, AN APOSTLE OF YHWH, or any other man here or elsewhere.