If God doesn't want anyone in hell...

[Chicken Little]

besides it is a false question! or anyone who says God doesn't want anyone in hell doesn't understand even what hell is .
He didn't want any hell ever .. he wanted no one to usurp anything ever.
Once they usurped the tree and his will , Death it just WAS , death is now , Usurping had become an entity he calls death and it had rights and it existed only in the mind of humans.

He could only overcome it by going through it , through that death and then offer us a way through death as our example of Life .
now that men have created it and everything in it , it has rights of domain .
He knows people will choose to stay there because they are more comfortable there in their own head usurping and being usurped.. .. and he is prepared to do everything to make then not want that .. but he will not usurp their will. this is all about legal things and a Lawful God is legal.
He came as an example of how to then walk through death, and those with faith in His example and then do as he did will live .
but to usurp is sin/death and he is incapable of that sin .
to Usurp others and their rights is man's domain . Not his ! He had nothing to do with it
He is allowed to let the death that each and every man have release into the world finally catch them when there is nothing left of them to appeal too. but he only appeals/ asks.
Love is to not usurp others , and you guys are accusing him of Not being loving because he won't usurp you or others.
that is insanity.

as far as you all know , hell is that Pit he created to contain all lawlessness , which is death and hell. a place where all eternal lawless entities will be contained there . But it is just a container for everything eternal each of us has created already.
the Pit is not hell , hell is what is in between your right ear and left ear and he doesn't control that. you do .
He can only let that place feed on and destroy itself , but not around him or us.
he doesn't have to put up with hell forever.
he had nothing to do with it .
so you don't want death that is impossible , death owns you.. you want life , then walk through his death and through his life.. Life means get out of your own head.
then by his example we must go through death with faith .. and must stop creating (by usurping others ) those entities that have eternal rights to you!
it's all about YOU!~

 

[nobdysfool]

Chicken Little, What in the world are you going on about?

 

[Chicken Little]

seems you will never know.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Q the theme from Twilight Zone.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

God gives us the ability to reason and also His word to know His will. Since we are created in His image, we can consider the way He does things and understand those ways if we try, through His grace.

I do not want to create robots who could only love me. I would want people to choose to love me, based on the essence of me. What is sooooo difficult to understand for those of us who love good and God, is WHY others would choose evil or Satan over God.

Yet they do. And that is their choice. Satan existed in heaven with God, yet that still was not enough for him. How much more so will men choose things of this world over a God they cannot see.

 

[nobdysfool]

seems you will never know.

A non-answer if I ever saw one. Do you have anything of coherent value to add to the discussion?

 

[bling]

God cannot un-exist that which has already existed. As soon as God “decides” to make an individual that person was born, lived and died, so how can God un-create him?

God is not limited to our sequence of events (time). Everything is simultaneously happening from our perspective looking at God’s situation.

 

[nobdysfool]

God cannot un-exist that which has already existed. As soon as God “decides” to make an individual that person was born, lived and died, so how can God un-create him?

God is not limited to our sequence of events (time). Everything is simultaneously happening from our perspective looking at God’s situation.

And you know this...how?

 

[bling]

And you know this...how?

It has been repeatedly scientifically shown over the last 100 years that time is relative and nothing has been shown to show time is not relative (although many have tried) . For God living outside man’s three dimensional universe, would also mean time would be completely relative to Him.

If God is limited to man’s time, there is also the problem of creation. If there were an infinite amount of time prior to the creation than the creation could not have happened yet since there is still an infinite amount of time before creation. God just cannot be limited by time.

If time is totally relative to God there is no infinite past or infinite future for God, but really just an infinite present. Time appears to be a creation of God to provide man with a means to become like God in that man can obtain Godly type Love.

For God everything is happening simultaneously.

 

[nobdysfool]

It has been repeatedly scientifically shown over the last 100 years that time is relative and nothing has been shown to show time is not relative (although many have tried) . For God living outside man’s three dimensional universe, would also mean time would be completely relative to Him.

If God is limited to man’s time, there is also the problem of creation. If there were an infinite amount of time prior to the creation than the creation could not have happened yet since there is still an infinite amount of time before creation. God just cannot be limited by time.

If time is totally relative to God there is no infinite past or infinite future for God, but really just an infinite present. Time appears to be a creation of God to provide man with a means to become like God in that man can obtain Godly type Love.

For God everything is happening simultaneously.

Pure speculation on your part. You have made it the way you want to see it to fit with your theology. As to your original question, "How can God uncreate ____", I would be careful, because you're in essence saying God cannot do something. Given His Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence, there are very few, if any, things God cannot do, should He so desire. When people start saying "God cannot do this, or that", I tend to tune them out, because in most cases they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[bling]

Pure speculation on your part. You have made it the way you want to see it to fit with your theology. As to your original question, "How can God uncreate ____", I would be careful, because you're in essence saying God cannot do something. Given His Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence, there are very few, if any, things God cannot do, should He so desire. When people start saying "God cannot do this, or that", I tend to tune them out, because in most cases they don't know what they're talking about.

God cannot do that which cannot be done.

 

[nobdysfool]

God cannot do that which cannot be done.

Mat 19:26 KJV But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[bling]

Mat 19:26 KJV But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Can we agree that "all" does not always mean "all"?

 

[nobdysfool]

Can we agree that "all" does not always mean "all"?

LOL! Does it? Seems to me that context and subject matter come into play here. When it comes to God's attributes and Power, I would say that "all" certainly does mean "all". Inclusively.

 

[Marvin Knox]

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." Matthew 11:21

God knows what people who are not and never will be would have done in a situation that did not and will not happen.

Therefore God knows what people who were not created and will not be created would have done with Christ if they had been created.

God could have not created people whom He knew would not accept Christ and as a result end up going to Hell.

He created them anyway.


"................It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:24

It would have been better for people who will go to Hell had they never been created.

God created them anyway.

Obviously - it was better for God's purposes that people be created who would go to Hell than them not to be created.

Gentlemen - It's not rocket surgery. It's simple Bible.

It's also the position of people who believe in the absolute sovereign control of God over everything that happens. It is the position of people who believe that everything that happens is done for the glory of God and not for the wellfare of His creation.

i.e. - It is the position of Reformed theologians. (Read "Calvinists" and weap if you simply can't help yourself.)

 

[Korah]

Can we agree that "all" does not always mean "all"?

Would that posters on this thread agreed on SOMETHING!
I could not bear to read all of it, but far as I did read people agreed Satan once had a more exalted place than now without any clear statement of how that came about. Far as I know Christians ASSUME God created Satan, but I know no basis for this belief. "Assuming" Satan arose independently of God, God as all-powerful (in His domain, anyway, perhaps the greater part originally and perhaps now ALL of existence) had the opportunity to destroy Satan and his cohorts utterly. Is it so wrong of God that He chose not to do so, but instead has a plan to get the dark forces ultimately to accept "salvation"? Not a concept I hear much these days (if at all), but it was taught by the greatest theologian (before Augustine) and Bible critic of the early Church, Origen. I admit to being an unabashed Origenist. Just call me "old-fashioned", I don't mind.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Would that posters on this thread agreed on SOMETHING!
I could not bear to read all of it, but far as I did read people agreed Satan once had a more exalted place than now without any clear statement of how that came about.

Scripture is quite clear on "how that came about". We find the answer in Isa 14:12-14
"12 “How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13 “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14 ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’"

Satan said "I will…" 5 times. Totally against God's will for him. That's why he lost his exalted place.

Far as I know Christians ASSUME God created Satan, but I know no basis for this belief.

Once again, Scripture is quite clear on the fact that Satan was created: Eze 28:15 - “You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.

The context clearly indicates that the passage is about Satan.

"Assuming" Satan arose independently of God, God as all-powerful (in His domain, anyway, perhaps the greater part originally and perhaps now ALL of existence) had the opportunity to destroy Satan and his cohorts utterly.[/QUTOE]
First, we don't have to assume that Satan arose independently of God, if you mean "arose" in the sense of rose up to rebel against God's authority and will for him.

Second, God has the opportunity to do anything He wants. But He clearly didn't, so let's not keep assuming what didn't occur.

Is it so wrong of God that He chose not to do so, but instead has a plan to get the dark forces ultimately to accept "salvation"?

It is wrong to assume what the Bible doesn't say.

Not a concept I hear much these days (if at all), but it was taught by the greatest theologian (before Augustine) and Bible critic of the early Church, Origen. I admit to being an unabashed Origenist. Just call me "old-fashioned", I don't mind.

Seems your understanding of Scripture is a bit limited.