I was reading Luke 22 today....

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is probably true, but we don't consider regret in itself to be repentance or an act of asking for forgiveness, nor do we consider 'just anything' that you might do as a result of regret to be morally acceptable.

I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if Judas would have lived after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.
Didn't Jesus save Paul?

Acts 8:3
2 God-fearing men buried Stephen and mourned deeply over him.
3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out threats of murder against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 26:10
And that is what I did in Jerusalem. With authority from the chief priests I put many of the saints in prison, and when they were condemned to death, I cast my vote against them.

1 Timo 1:
13 I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy.
15 This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.
16 But for this very reason I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience, as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and am unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


.

 

[brinny]

I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if Judas would have lived after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus. Didn't Jesus save Paul?

Acts 8:3
2 God-fearing men buried Stephen and mourned deeply over him.
3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out threats of murder against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 26:10
And that is what I did in Jerusalem. With authority from the chief priests I put many of the saints in prison, and when they were condemned to death, I cast my vote against them.

1 Timo 1:
13 I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy.
15 This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.
16 But for this very reason I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience, as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and am unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


.

Interesting study....

brings to mind what Jesus said about Judas.....

 

[brinny]

He may not have repented, but he was remorseful enough to hang himself after giving the money back to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers.
I still believe "JUDAS" was symbolic of the Judean rulers in that they gave Jesus up to be crucified and only then did Judas realize he had done a great wrong...IMHO.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/27-8.htm

Matt 27:
2 They bound Him, led Him away, and handed Him over to Pilate the governor.
3 When Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was filled with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the Chief Priests and Elders.
4 “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood,” he said.
“What is that to us?” they replied, “You bear the responsibility.”
5 So Judas threw the silver into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests picked up the pieces of silver and said, “It is unlawful to put this into the treasury, since it is blood” money.
7 After conferring together, they used the money to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for foreigners.
8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9 Then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on Him by the people of Israel,…

Acts 1:
15 In those days Peter stood up among jthe brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in nthis ministry.”
18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms,

“‘May his camp become desolate,
and let there be no one to dwell in it’;
and“‘Let another take his office.’

21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us.................................

https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/potters-field
Who bought the Potter's Field: Judas or the Jews?






.

Judas bought it, didn't he?

 

[Albion]

I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if Judas would have lived after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.

Didn't Jesus save Paul?

This question has bedeviled Christians for centuries, LLOJ. On the one hand, we tend to think that if he'd gone to the Lord and repented, Christ would have forgiven him. But OTOH, Christ openly spoke of him as evil, so that gives us pause.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This question has bedeviled Christians for centuries, LLOJ. On the one hand, we tend to think that if he'd gone to the Lord and repented, Christ would have forgiven him. But OTOH, Christ openly spoke of him as evil, so that gives us pause.

Well yes. But, if it wasn't for the corrupt Jewish leaders "entrapping" him to give up Jesus, would he have done it? I would think he did it out of pure greed. I believe Jesus also referred to Peter as "Satan".

John 13:
27 After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the Twelve.
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
John 13:2
The evening meal was underway, and the devil had already put into the heart of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.

Notice what Jesus said about the Judean leaders here:

John 8:44
'Ye are of a father -- the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him;
when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar -- also his father.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
JESUS VS THE OC JUDEAN LEADERS

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!.................


.

 

[Albion]

I believe Jesus also referred to Peter as "Satan".

Yeh, that's true, so probably we shouldn't make too much out of that point.

 

[brinny]

When i was reading Luke 22, these thoughts came to mind:

Luke 22:

Here in verse 22 Jesus speaks on the one who betrays him. It is crucial to note that the one who betrayed Jesus was in Jesus' presence and witnessed Jesus acts, heard Jesus' words, that testified to WHO Jesus was. He KNEW Who Jesus was, and yet, STILL conspired to betray Jesus in cold blood.

There is a REASON that Jesus said these words:

"But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Here we have what can be likened to the unforgivable sin.

And what a woe-ful thing that is.

What got me to thinkin' was the "unforgivable" part.

Woe has a strong and powerful connotation to it.

What might Jesus have meant when He used the word "woe" in Luke 22:22?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was reading Luke 22 today, and there was verse 22:

"And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Now the one who betrayed Jesus is Judas.

As i was meditating on this, this thought came to mind:

Did Judas commit the unforgivable sin?

It could also be woe, not only to a man, but a city of men led by a man. I found this interesting.
The book of Revelation uses the word "woe" many times for both inhabitants and the City they inhabit:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=woe&t=ESV#s=s_primary_0_1
"woe" occurs 93 times in 86 verses in the ESV.

Nah 3:1
Woe to the bloody city,
all full of lies and plunder—
no end to the prey!

Matt 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate!.…
Luk 11:49
Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,

Reve 18:
10 In fear of her torment, they will stand at a distance and cry out: “Woe, woe to the great city, the mighty city of Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”
24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”


http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Actuated by the fiercest impulses rancour and revenge against the Jews, they rushed furiously upon them, slaying some with the sword, trampling others under their feet, or crushing them to death against the walls. Many, falling amongst the smoking ruins of the porches and galleries, were suffocated. The unarmed poor, and even sick persons, were slaughtered without mercy. Of these unhappy people numbers were left weltering in their gore.
Multitudes of the dead and dying were heaped round about the altar, to which they had formerly fled for protection, while the steps that led from it into the outer court were literally deluged with their blood.

.............In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! --
This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"



.

 

[brinny]

It could also be woe, not only to a man, but a city of men led by a man. I found this interesting.
The book of Revelation uses the word "woe" many times for both inhabitants and the City they inhabit:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=woe&t=ESV#s=s_primary_0_1
"woe" occurs 93 times in 86 verses in the ESV.

Nah 3:1
Woe to the bloody city,
all full of lies and plunder—
no end to the prey!

Matt 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate!.…
Luk 11:49
Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,

Reve 18:
10 In fear of her torment, they will stand at a distance and cry out: “Woe, woe to the great city, the mighty city of Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”
24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”


http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Actuated by the fiercest impulses rancour and revenge against the Jews, they rushed furiously upon them, slaying some with the sword, trampling others under their feet, or crushing them to death against the walls. Many, falling amongst the smoking ruins of the porches and galleries, were suffocated. The unarmed poor, and even sick persons, were slaughtered without mercy. Of these unhappy people numbers were left weltering in their gore.
Multitudes of the dead and dying were heaped round about the altar, to which they had formerly fled for protection, while the steps that led from it into the outer court were literally deluged with their blood.

.............In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! --
This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"



.

GREAT study and meditation on "woe", amigo.

It seems to mean severe, irreparable destruction to which there is no remedy...sort of in a place of "no return"?

This is an explanation of what "woe" means, especially when Jesus used the word:
"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." ~Proverbs 29:1

The word “woe” in the Greek is “ouai” and is more than just an expression of a feeling. Woe is a judgment as we read in the Book of Revelation (chapters 8. 9, 11, and 12). It means “alas” or almost like “oh no!” When the word woe is used, it is quite possibly signifying impending doom, condemnation and/or the wrath of God so it is never used to only emphasize something in the sentence in which it is used.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...t-does-woe-mean-a-biblical-definition-of-woe/

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's just it....

meditating on this very thing...

like what this unforgivable sin is, exactly...

lots to study on....

interesting info on the meaning of names

That is a question Christian Theologians have been trying to answer for decades.
Here is one commentator's in depth study on it and one of the longest commentary I have seen on it, if thou art interested:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm#14

WHAT IS THE SIN?

What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? In the third chapter of Mark, we have the parallel passage to the text we just read in Matthew, the same record of these men coming around Jesus when they saw Him perform His mighty miracle for the poor man who could neither see nor speak. In order to keep the people from believing Jesus, they said the miracle was performed by the power of Satan. Notice the words of Jesus in verses 28-30: "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost has never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT." Ah - now there's a clue - the Pharisees' opposition to Jesus was not a spur of the moment, hotheaded fit of pique. These men knew what they were doing. Their schemes against Jesus were deliberate, calculated. A leading Pharisee, Nicodemus, once confided to Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him" (Jn. 3:2).......................

THERE IS NO UNPARDONABLE SIN!

*snip*

“Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Mat. 12:31-32).

I am glad that Jesus said that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men. I believe that is true. ALL manner. There is no kind of sin, which because of its kind, or manner, is unpardonable. The enemies of the truth of the ultimate salvation of all men have relied on this dissertation about the unpardonable sin given by our Lord, as their outstanding bulwark of defense against those who affirm that Christ is indeed the Saviour of all men, the Saviour of the world. Invariably, when the certainty of eternal torment is discussed and doubted, the sin against the Holy Ghost is brought forward as an impregnable defense against forgiveness hereafter for at least one sin. Few know how to reply. Here is what the Lord said: "But whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." On the surface it seems conclusive to the unthinking; and it has equally seemed so to learned theologians who have been trained in the channels of orthodox thinking. Yet, as a matter of fact, these words of our Lord are among the strongest collateral evidence that can be produced in support of the truth of the reconciliation of all men to God. Hearken! A sin against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven in this "world," nor in the "world" to come.

While the King James version states that the sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come, that is not quite the meaning of the Greek. The Greek word here translated "world" is AION. This word AION has been translated into fifteen different English words and phrases, many of which convey the wrong meaning entirely. The simple meaning of AION is "age." An AION is "an age." Two AION(S) are two "ages." A thousand AION(S) are a thousand "ages." Some of the passages where AION is found will give us added information concerning it. In Eph. 2:7 we find, "in the ages (aions) to come." In Col. 1:26 we find, "the mystery which has been hid from ages (aions)." In Eph. 2:2 we find, "you walked according to the course (aion) of this world." In Heb. 1:2 we find, "by whom also He made the worlds (aions)." In Hebrews 11:3 we find, "the worlds (aions) were formed by the word of God."

In about fifteen instances, such as Mat. 12:32, I Cor. 1:20, etc., we find it rendered "this world (aion)." Twice we find "this present world (aion)." In Gal. 1:4 we find, "deliver us from this present evil world (aion)." In Eph. 6:12 we find, "the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion)." In II Cor. 4:4 we find, "the god of this world (aion)." In I Cor. 2:6 we find, "the wisdom of this world (aion)." In Mk. 4:19 we find, "the cares of this world (aion)." How much clearer and understandable it would be if the translators had used the correct wordage instead of world! In Mk. 10:30 we find that there is not only this present aion, which is evil, but also "the world (aion) to come." Certainly this present age is an evil age, and the rulers of the darkness of this age are evil. Clearly God framed the ages, and there are not only "this age" and "the age to come," but there are also "the ages to come" (Eph. 2:7). Any thinking person should plainly see that if you translate a word which means an age by the word world, you immediately get the wrong idea. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come," and the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him in this age, nor in the age to come."

The translation in Mat. 12:32 of "world" instead of "age," has been the source of an altogether erroneous concept. This "world" and the "world to come" has become so indelibly impressed on the Christian mind as meaning "this life and eternity," that it is next to impossible quickly to reverse the trend of belief and direct it into sound thinking. It makes all the difference in the world when one understands that our Lord was not contrasting "this world" with that "great eternity out there somewhere," but merely pointing to two ages: this age and the age to come...............


.

 

[brinny]

That is a question Christian Theologians have been trying to answer for decades.
Here is one commentator's in depth study on it and one of the longest commentary I have seen on it, if thou art interested:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm#14

WHAT IS THE SIN?

What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? In the third chapter of Mark, we have the parallel passage to the text we just read in Matthew, the same record of these men coming around Jesus when they saw Him perform His mighty miracle for the poor man who could neither see nor speak. In order to keep the people from believing Jesus, they said the miracle was performed by the power of Satan. Notice the words of Jesus in verses 28-30: "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost has never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT." Ah - now there's a clue - the Pharisees' opposition to Jesus was not a spur of the moment, hotheaded fit of pique. These men knew what they were doing. Their schemes against Jesus were deliberate, calculated. A leading Pharisee, Nicodemus, once confided to Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him" (Jn. 3:2).......................

THERE IS NO UNPARDONABLE SIN!

*snip*

“Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Mat. 12:31-32).

I am glad that Jesus said that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men. I believe that is true. ALL manner. There is no kind of sin, which because of its kind, or manner, is unpardonable. The enemies of the truth of the ultimate salvation of all men have relied on this dissertation about the unpardonable sin given by our Lord, as their outstanding bulwark of defense against those who affirm that Christ is indeed the Saviour of all men, the Saviour of the world. Invariably, when the certainty of eternal torment is discussed and doubted, the sin against the Holy Ghost is brought forward as an impregnable defense against forgiveness hereafter for at least one sin. Few know how to reply. Here is what the Lord said: "But whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." On the surface it seems conclusive to the unthinking; and it has equally seemed so to learned theologians who have been trained in the channels of orthodox thinking. Yet, as a matter of fact, these words of our Lord are among the strongest collateral evidence that can be produced in support of the truth of the reconciliation of all men to God. Hearken! A sin against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven in this "world," nor in the "world" to come.

While the King James version states that the sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come, that is not quite the meaning of the Greek. The Greek word here translated "world" is AION. This word AION has been translated into fifteen different English words and phrases, many of which convey the wrong meaning entirely. The simple meaning of AION is "age." An AION is "an age." Two AION(S) are two "ages." A thousand AION(S) are a thousand "ages." Some of the passages where AION is found will give us added information concerning it. In Eph. 2:7 we find, "in the ages (aions) to come." In Col. 1:26 we find, "the mystery which has been hid from ages (aions)." In Eph. 2:2 we find, "you walked according to the course (aion) of this world." In Heb. 1:2 we find, "by whom also He made the worlds (aions)." In Hebrews 11:3 we find, "the worlds (aions) were formed by the word of God."

In about fifteen instances, such as Mat. 12:32, I Cor. 1:20, etc., we find it rendered "this world (aion)." Twice we find "this present world (aion)." In Gal. 1:4 we find, "deliver us from this present evil world (aion)." In Eph. 6:12 we find, "the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion)." In II Cor. 4:4 we find, "the god of this world (aion)." In I Cor. 2:6 we find, "the wisdom of this world (aion)." In Mk. 4:19 we find, "the cares of this world (aion)." How much clearer and understandable it would be if the translators had used the correct wordage instead of world! In Mk. 10:30 we find that there is not only this present aion, which is evil, but also "the world (aion) to come." Certainly this present age is an evil age, and the rulers of the darkness of this age are evil. Clearly God framed the ages, and there are not only "this age" and "the age to come," but there are also "the ages to come" (Eph. 2:7). Any thinking person should plainly see that if you translate a word which means an age by the word world, you immediately get the wrong idea. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come," and the expression, "It shall not be forgiven him in this age, nor in the age to come."

The translation in Mat. 12:32 of "world" instead of "age," has been the source of an altogether erroneous concept. This "world" and the "world to come" has become so indelibly impressed on the Christian mind as meaning "this life and eternity," that it is next to impossible quickly to reverse the trend of belief and direct it into sound thinking. It makes all the difference in the world when one understands that our Lord was not contrasting "this world" with that "great eternity out there somewhere," but merely pointing to two ages: this age and the age to come...............


.

Interesting study.

What keeps coming to mind for me regarding "unforgivable sin", is sin that is "unforgiven" and of the most grievous kind, which, of course WOULD grieve the Holy Spirit, and that is:

Never accepting Jesus the Christ as Lord and Savior....for one CANNOT be forgiven if they've never sought forgiveness in the first place, can they? To take it further, if one KNEW/KNOWS WHO Jesus is, and STILL refuses to acknowledge Him as such, and along with the acknowledgment, confess it AND one's sin, therein lies a dilemma.

Is it a woeful dilemma?

(thinkin' out loud, here amigo....this is a riveting study for me....)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

he didn't SEEK Jesus to ask for forgiveness...

how tragic is THAT??!!

Very tragic, but not unique. It's been happening the world over since. . .

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
he didn't SEEK Jesus to ask for forgiveness...

how tragic is THAT??!!

Very tragic, but nut unique. It's been happening the world over since. . .

yes, it's been happening since the fall of man.

Interestingly enough, Judas knew WHO Jesus was. He had walked with Him, talked with Him, shared meals with Him, saw the miracles first hand, and heard Jesus' testimonies about Who He was.

Yet He denied Him and tragically would not bend his knee or his will to Who He knew Jesus was.

I remember something about a Bible verse that says that those who KNOW the Truth and yet still rebel against it, rejecting it, are judged more staunchly because of it.

Perhaps that is why Jesus said what He said about Judas.

Judas, even in his dying breathe, wouldn't bow his will to Jesus Christ, and in essence, to God Most High.

Tragic.

Perhaps stubbornness of that kind is especially deadly.

Literally.

(just thinkin' out loud here...lots to meditate on and study...)

 

[Born Again2004]

I was reading Luke 22 today, and there was verse 22:

"And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Now the one who betrayed Jesus is Judas.

As i was meditating on this, this thought came to mind:

Did Judas commit the unforgivable sin?

Sure he did, the "unforgivable or unpardonable sin" is dying denying God or Jesus and therefore, not eventually receiving the Holy Spirit like the rest of the Apostle's did and we all now do know with the ushering in the New Covenant or salvation by grace.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
I was reading Luke 22 today, and there was verse 22:

"And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Now the one who betrayed Jesus is Judas.

As i was meditating on this, this thought came to mind:

Did Judas commit the unforgivable sin?

Sure he did, the "unforgivable or unpardonable sin" is dying denying God or Jesus and therefore, not eventually receiving the Holy Spirit like the rest of the Apostle's did and we all now do know with the ushering in the New Covenant or salvation by grace.

That's exactly what i've been meditating on.....

in a way, is this denial of Jesus Christ, in essence, calling or implying that the Holy Spirit is a "liar"?

(just wondering)

 

[Born Again2004]

That's exactly what i've been meditating on.....

in a way, is this denial of Jesus Christ, in essence, calling or implying that the Holy Spirit is a "liar"?

(just wondering)

I think it is pretty simple: If you die, denying Jesus and therefore do not get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you have "Blasphemed The Holy Spirit, or committed the unpardonable sin....all other sins are forgivable. This is the gospel, we all have the chance to be saved if we believe and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Until you die, you do not receive the ultimate punishment for the Unforgivable sin!

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
That's exactly what i've been meditating on.....

in a way, is this denial of Jesus Christ, in essence, calling or implying that the Holy Spirit is a "liar"?

(just wondering)

I think it is pretty simple: If you die, denying Jesus and therefore do not get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you have "Blasphemed The Holy Spirit, or committed the unpardonable sin....all other sins are forgivable. This is the gospel, we all have the chance to be saved if we believe and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Until you die, you do not receive the ultimate punishment for the Unforgivable sin!

Would you mind elaborating on "blasphemed" the Holy Spirit?

Thanks.

 

[Born Again2004]

Would you mind elaborating on "blasphemed" the Holy Spirit?

Thanks.

Sure, I thought I did but it can be a complex thing and I probably haven't done a very good job.
Maybe, we could look at it like this:

• Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence towards God and accepting his Holy Spirit.
• From a Christian concept, a believer accepts God and salvation by his Grace (free Gift), instituted by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus died for your sins, was buried and rose again(resurrected) and his resurrected life gives us new life, that we may live forever in Heaven.
• Once forgiven / saved, God gets us to heaven or resurrects us by indwelling the Holy Sprit in us. This indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus, "you must be Born Again"....born first by your mother (physical birth) and then born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ( spiritual birth).
• Maybe if you look at it like a play on words. Blasphemy, is the same thing as a non-believer. A non-believer rejects Jesus Christ works and insults or shows contempt toward God's Holy Spirit. If you die, your physical death, in this non-believing condition, you die with out having the Holy Spirit in you. This is the only unforgivable sin. Jesus died for all your sins, except this sin.....ironically, unbelief is a sin but Jesus din not or could not die for unbelief. To go to heaven, you must die a believer, with the Holy Spirit in you.....if he is not in you.....you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit!

 

[brinny]

Sure, I thought I did but it can be a complex thing and I probably haven't done a very good job.
Maybe, we could look at it like this:

• Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence towards God and accepting his Holy Spirit.
• From a Christian concept, a believer accepts God and salvation by his Grace (free Gift), instituted by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus died for your sins, was buried and rose again(resurrected) and his resurrected life gives us new life, that we may live forever in Heaven.
• Once forgiven / saved, God gets us to heaven or resurrects us by indwelling the Holy Sprit in us. This indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus, "you must be Born Again"....born first by your mother (physical birth) and then born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ( spiritual birth).
• Maybe if you look at it like a play on words. Blasphemy, is the same thing as a non-believer. A non-believer rejects Jesus Christ works and insults or shows contempt toward God's Holy Spirit. If you die, your physical death, in this non-believing condition, you die with out having the Holy Spirit in you. This is the only unforgivable sin. Jesus died for all your sins, except this sin.....ironically, unbelief is a sin but Jesus din not or could not die for unbelief. To go to heaven, you must die a believer, with the Holy Spirit in you.....if he is not in you.....you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit!

This is most helpful. Thank you.

In thinking of this as a deliberate and pointed act, would this be similar to say "spitting" in Jesus' Christ's face as He hung on the cross, all the while knowing fully well WHO He was? And consequently doing the same to the Holy Spirit?

In addition, as i think on this, does this tie-in to Satan, and his full knowledge of WHO Jesus was, and STILL bound and determined to do all he can to be His adversary and (illogical as it is), DEFEAT Him?

(just sorta' thinkin' out loud here....what i'm tying together here, is that the utter hopelessness of Satan is akin to Judas' own hopelessness of which there is no remedy...for either one....)

 

[com7fy8]

Perhaps stubbornness of that kind is especially deadly.

The wages of sin is death, in a person; then that inner death can somehow produce physical killing and dying, like with Cain and Abel. First, sin made him love-dead, so then he could fight and kill his brother.

About blaspheming the Holy Spirit > Jesus did say if someone speaks a word against the Holy Spirit, that will not be forgiven.

But ones, as we see, have different ideas about this. I think that for our own personal life with Jesus we need to be not mainly concerned about how to label what is and what is not the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but be concerned about what as everyday Christians we now need to watch out for.

For example, Jesus says if we do not forgive we are not forgiven > Mark 11:25. Some might argue that this goes only for unbelievers. But still is it clear, I think, that our Father wants us to be all-forgiving. And we have the example of Jesus on the cross praying forgiveness to those who were still hating and torturing and bad-mouthing Jesus. So, instead of only arguing and trying to prove theological conclusions about forgiveness, we need to follow the example of Jesus. Jesus prayed forgiveness to those people. And then one of those criminals next to Him trusted in Him . . . after that prayer had gone out.

Another thing > right after it says not to grieve the Holy Spirit, we have a list of things to put away from us >

"bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, evil speaking," and "all malice" > Ephesians 4:30-32.

These are not all sins of speech, Brinny. But I see these can grieve the Holy Spirit. And we in Jesus need to care how the Holy Spirit feels Be sensitive to Him, all the time, not only for His leading and guiding, but caring how He feels. And there is what to do, instead of being involved in things which can grieve the Holy Spirit >

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, while it is important not to speak against the Holy Spirit and not to refuse Him, there is all that is so good to do, instead; and while God may have us talking about theological ideas, there is the loving we need to do, which needs our attention