"I save dead people" -- God

[holeinone]

Why would "brethren" have to repent? Why would "brethren" be in danger of perishing.?

Where does God say that IT IS THE BRETHREN that will need to repent?
The scripture is speaking of the unsaved elect not the beloved.

That may be true. Is true. But that doesn't mean "perishing" souls are brethren or that non-repentant souls are brethren. I don't think any Arminian would say that "the entire creation of men will be saved".

ALL the epistles are written TO THE SAVED . He is not telling THEM how to be saved. He is telling them of the judgment to come

Therefore, this point is not a valid one.

I really fail to see the logic. God is willing that all come to repentance and not that any perish. Why would that mean the judgment can never occur????

He is willing doesn't mean that it so happens: that all will repent and not perish. It means that He wants as many as possible to come. That's why He is long-suffering. But some day the period of grace will be over and judgment will come upon those who have not repented.

Where does God say this to them?

You have to take it as it is written, You can not say it means this, but it does not mean He really does not mean he wants none to perish and is long suffering so they do not and then say he did not mean that.


Please give me the verses where Peter is warning the BELOVED that THEY are going to perish

 

[holdon]

Please give me the verses where Peter is warning the BELOVED that THEY are going to perish

The verse in question does NOT say that. But you did:

Pe 3:9** The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Now in the text in question who is He long suffering toward? He says it clearly ..it is the audience that he is addressing ..The brethren..the elect..US-WARD


So according to you, the brethren = elect = any that perish.....

 

[TruthMiner]

The verse in question does NOT say that. But you did:

Pe 3:9** The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Now in the text in question who is He long suffering toward? He says it clearly ..it is the audience that he is addressing ..The brethren..the elect..US-WARD


So according to you, the brethren = elect = any that perish.....

Peter's point is plain.

Men were mocking that Jesus had not yet come again.

Peter's response is that God is taking his time because he is longsuffering toward us humans and not willing that any should perish.

Now mind you, Paul DID write this verse directly TO the churches at Galatia:

I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[holeinone]

The verse in question does NOT say that. But you did:

Pe 3:9** The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Now in the text in question who is He long suffering toward? He says it clearly ..it is the audience that he is addressing ..The brethren..the elect..US-WARD


So according to you, the brethren = elect = any that perish.....

Who is the any to you? Is it ANY MAN ? If he is patiently awaiting that promise that ALL men come to him before the judgment who would He judge?

What of those that have died unsaved already, has God failed in His promise already?

Does not God get what HE ordains?

The us-ward are the elect of God, the invisible church.
This is an eternal security promise to all the elect.
He is long suffering until the last of the elect come, He will not bring judgment until that last man repents and comes.
God knows the name of the last man that will be saved before the judgment, it is carved on His hand


Acts 13:48 (NKJV) Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed

 

[holeinone]

Peter's point is plain.

Men were mocking that Jesus had not yet come again.

Peter's response is that God is taking his time because he is longsuffering toward us humans and not willing that any should perish.

Now mind you, Paul DID write this verse directly TO the churches at Galatia:

I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Did he write to the Corinthians?

Within the church are saved and unsaved. but in this case Paul was clear as he addresses it to THE BELOVED.( beloved, esteemed, dear, favourite, worthy of love)

That is a word used to denote a man that is loved and esteemed by God, a son.



We see a similar warning to the Corinthian church

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The fact is that warning was not included in 2 Peter because it addresses the beloved

 

[holdon]

Who is the any to you? Is it ANY MAN ?

Absolutely! We have no reason to doubt God's Word.

If he is patiently awaiting that promise that ALL men come to him before the judgment who would He judge?

???? You must not be seeing/reading clearly. It does not say that He waits till ALL have come to Him.

What of those that have died unsaved already, has God failed in His promise already?

???? Again, what are you talking about?

Does not God get what HE ordains?

And who says that He ordained ALL to come to repentance?

The us-ward are the elect of God, the invisible church.
This is an eternal security promise to all the elect.

??? How is that so?

He is long suffering until the last of the elect come, He will not bring judgment until that last man repents and comes.
God knows the name of the last man that will be saved before the judgment, it is carved on His hand

Well, He sure knows. Whether it is carved on His hand, I don't know. Have you seen it?

Acts 13:48 (NKJV) Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed

[/quote] This verse means NOT that they were "appointed" to eternal life from all eternity. But simply that they put themselves in position to receive the word of salvation as opposed to the Jews who distanced themselves from the gospel.

 

[TruthMiner]

Did he write to the Corinthians?

Huh?

Within the church are saved and unsaved. but in this case Paul was clear as he addresses it to THE BELOVED.( beloved, esteemed, dear, favourite, worthy of love)

That is a word used to denote a man that is loved and esteemed by God, a son.



We see a similar warning to the Corinthian church

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The fact is that warning was not included in 2 Peter because it addresses the beloved

You seem to forget who Paul was writing to in Galatia.

Having began in the Spirit do you now end in the flesh?"

And now he is warning them if they do this they will not enter the Kingdom of God.

I warn you, as I warned you before, those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:21)."

What things? Ending in the works of the flesh.

I suppose you can always PRETEND he was talking to somebody else can't you?

 

[CCWoody]

Ephesians 2:4-6

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

======

If dead is dead...

I think that your thread is a perfect illustration that the vast majority of Christians just don't believe that dead is dead.

1. It doesn't mean you walk according to the course of this world.
2. It doesn't mean you walk after the prince of this world.
3. It doesn't mean that you follow the will of the flesh.
4. It doesn't mean that you follow the will of your mind.
5. And it doesn't mean that you were saved WHEN you were in the conditions described above.

It can't cause if it did, then it would mean that we were saved WHEN we walked according to the course of this world and its prince and followed the lusts of our own mind and flesh.

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[Dragons87]

Whether we are willing or not, God still works. He works around and over our unwillingness. That's what makes Him God.

And imagine the additional greater glory God would get if He acquired willing partners rather than unwilling slaves. He wants followers not only because He is strong, but because He is good and attractive.

 

[drstevej]

He gave me a new heart and a will that follows Him gladly and considers Him altogether beautiful.

I am his bond-servant.

he is at work in me to WILL and to DO according to His good pleasure. And I eagerly strive to please Him.

Wonderful stuff going from a corpse to a son !!!

 

[holdon]

then it would mean that we were saved WHEN we walked according to the course of this world and its prince and followed the lusts of our own mind and flesh.

To say the contrary is to make the meaning of "saved" void and empty....

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

If Paul condemned the Corinthians here on earth for saying I am of Paul, or Apollos, or Peter, we can safely deduct that Calvinism will NOT exist in glory.....

 

[CCWoody]

All this "no free will" stuff leads to something I don't like. A cruel God who arbitrarily decides for you where you will spend eternity without giving you any choice in the matter. As babies are being born, He goes eeny meeny miney mo, you go to hell you go to heaven you go to hell you go to heaven. That is NOT the God I know.

That is not the God I know either. Of course, it is much more fun to run around crying "eeny meeny miney mo, this baby to heaven but that one to hell [insert evil laugh here]" rather than actually try and articulate what we actually do believe.

But, for the sake of this argument, let us assume that God really does send people who die as infants to hell. What wrong has he done them?

\Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[CCWoody]

If Paul condemned the Corinthians here on earth for saying I am of Paul, or Apollos, or Peter, we can safely deduct that Calvinism will NOT exist in glory.....

Paul also condemned those who said "I am of Christ." Ergo, according to YOUR logic of this verse we can "safely deduct that" Christianity "will NOT exist in glory."

1Co 1:12 GB
(12) Nowe this I say, that euery one of you saith, I am Pauls, and I am Apollos, and I am Cephas, and I am Christs.

Interesting deductive reasoning.

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[holdon]

Paul also condemned those who said "I am of Christ." Ergo, according to YOUR logic of this verse we can "safely deduct that" Christianity "will NOT exist in glory."

1Co 1:12 GB
(12) Nowe this I say, that euery one of you saith, I am Pauls, and I am Apollos, and I am Cephas, and I am Christs.

Interesting deductive reasoning.

It seems that you think that if you raise just your own banner high enough, that will be acceptable. Even the "I am of Christ" were heretics, and perhaps the worst kind.... of the likes of the pharisaic leaven.

 

[CCWoody]

It seems that you think that if you raise just your own banner high enough, that will be acceptable. Even the "I am of Christ" were heretics, and perhaps the worst kind.... of the likes of the pharisaic leaven.

So, let me get this right....

Those who said: "I am Christ's" were heretics of the worst kind. Got it! Tell me, holdon, whose exactly do you claim to be?

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[holdon]

So, let me get this right....

Those who said: "I am Christ's" were heretics of the worst kind. Got it! Tell me, holdon, whose exactly do you claim to be?

It's not me who said it, but Paul:

that there are strifes among you.
But I speak of this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. Is the Christ divided?

"So that let no one boast in men; for all things are yours.
Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things coming, all are yours; and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's."

Here is what one commentator wrote:

"Alas! at Corinth the saints seem to have been largely infected with party spirit. "But I say this that one saith I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ:" this last to my mind as intelligible as any of the others; for the wrong was not in any of those named, but in such as set up their names out of their own vanity and love of opposition. And the worst of all, I doubt not, was that party which plumed itself on its superior spirituality. They had done with men. Paul, Apollos, Cephas, were beneath their aspirations. Not the servants, but the Master was their watchword. They disliked the high claims, especially of Paul. For their part they would cleave to the Lord's own precept: one is your teacher, one your leader, and all ye are brethren. Thus not infrequently does self-exaltation among Christians disguise itself unconsciously (and unconsciously, because the state is bad, and the heart too long away from the Lord in practice); whereas it is evident that he who really loves and bows to the Lord does for this very reason honour His servants for their work's sake, and according to the place He has set them in. The corruption of the best thing is truly said to be the worst; and so it was here where the specious plea of such as abjured all but Christ might seem to be the only thing right and spiritual in Corinth, divided as the assembly was. How important it is, and now as then, to judge righteous judgment, not according to appearances! ​

 

[CCWoody]

So, holdon, does this mean that you refuse to say that you are Christ's, seeing that you have claimed that those who claim the name of Christ are the worst heretics (post #74)?

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[holdon]

So, holdon, does this mean that you refuse to say that you are Christ's, seeing that you have claimed that those who claim the name of Christ are the worst heretics (post #74)?

Those who in that party spirit claim themselves superior to others by using the name of Christ are the worst.

"Sed videamus, quid in Christiana unitate requirat. Siquis subtilius distingui singula cupiat, vult eos cohaerere primum in una mente, deinde in una sententia, tertio vult eos consensum verbis profiteri." Calvini in Omnes Pauli