I believe in eternal security but these verses have always stumbled me?

[yogosans14]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 94 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

Hebrews 10:26-28 ESV / 43 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 47 helpful votes

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

What are your thoughts on these verses?i find them very confusing because I've read scriptures that support eternal security I'll post them later but for now I want to focus on these verses.

 

[sdowney717]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 94 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

Hebrews 10:26-28 ESV / 43 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 47 helpful votes

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

What are your thoughts on these verses?i find them very confusing because I've read scriptures that support eternal security I'll post them later but for now I want to focus on these verses.

I can add one more
Heb 3
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.[a]

The reason people can not enter into God's promises is this

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

So all the other passages your sharing, those people are unbelievers.

That they turn back because they are not worthy of the kingdom after putting hand to plow, look back to the world like Lot's wife, depart the faith, shows they are unregenerate, not born again, and so they fall away because they have no faith to persevere through trials since they have never heard God speak life to their spirit. So they are empty professors devoid of the Holy Spirit, twice dead, read Jude about apostates. That they have tasted of the power, all that means is they experienced some miracles of God in the church, They may have been healed of an illness, seen dramatic things occur.
Recall old Israel saw His mighty works and yet did not believe what God had said. Impossible to restore to repentance, since they reject Christ, there is no further repentance available to them as Christ is the only way to be saved. If they reject Him, that is their doom.

They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

And

Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Not all Israel is of Israel, and so not all who call themselves Christians are OF CHRIST ( meaning HE has born them again), some are planted by the devil being sons of the evil one, not sons of the kingdom. Read the parable of the weeds and the tares, both grew together.

 

[Steeno7]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 94 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

I think the answer is found in the passages of Hebrews following those, specifically 6:9, "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way."

The phrase "things that accompany salvation" shows that the writer really believes that they have salvation and therefore will have the things that always accompany salvation: persevering faith and fruitfulness. He does not believe that fruitlessness and apostasy accompany salvation. Better things do.

Hebrews 10:26-28 ESV / 43 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10 is all about the New Covenant of Grace and the sufficiency of Christ in the new and living way He ushered in through the cross. Verse 39 "But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

Once again, the writer expresses confidence that he and they are those who have faith in Jesus Christ, and so they do not shrink back to destruction. Shrink back to what? To the Old Covenant which is “the ministry of death” and the “ministry of condemnation". To return to such would be to deliberately go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth. Such a person is not living by faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 47 helpful votes

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Verse 13, "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

 

[razzelflabben]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 94 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

Hebrews 10:26-28 ESV / 43 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 47 helpful votes

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

What are your thoughts on these verses?i find them very confusing because I've read scriptures that support eternal security I'll post them later but for now I want to focus on these verses.

As I understand it, the purpose of the passage is not to talk about eternal security (though the issue is there) but rather to encourage us to continue to grow in the faith so that our lives are living out the righteousness that was imputed to our account. IOW's since you can't keep crucifying Christ over and over for your sins, stop sinning and start living in the fruit that is appropriate for righteousness.

 

[bling]

These three verses are just a few of the warnings given to Christians, which does suggest they can walk away from eternal life.

It is not that God takes their birthright away from them or can anyone stile it from them, but since the birthright is truly theirs and not partially still in God’s control, they can give or sell the birthright away (like Esau did).

A clear understanding comes with Paul’s description in which Paul spells out the harvest specifically as “eternal life” and then goes on the make the harvest contingent (if) on not “losing heart” which conveys the concept of our “giving up” what we have.

Gal. 6: 8 but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

 

[sdowney717]

These three verses are just a few of the warnings given to Christians, which does suggest they can walk away from eternal life.

It is not that God takes their birthright away from them or can anyone stile it from them, but since the birthright is truly theirs and not partially still in God’s control, they can give or sell the birthright away (like Esau did).

A clear understanding comes with Paul’s description in which Paul spells out the harvest specifically as “eternal life” and then goes on the make the harvest contingent (if) on not “losing heart” which conveys the concept of our “giving up” what we have.

Gal. 6: 8 but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

Curious, do you believe a born again new creature in Christ can turn away from Christ and go to hell?

 

[bling]

Curious, do you believe a born again new creature in Christ can turn away from Christ and go to hell?

If the right to go to heaven is like a birthright (and that is the way the Hebrew write used to describe it in 12:16) than like Esau we can sell it or give it away?

If we cannot give our birthright away is it really ours?

 

[sdowney717]

If the right to go to heaven is like a birthright (and that is the way the Hebrew write used to describe it in 12:16) than like Esau we can sell it or give it away?

If we cannot give our birthright away is it really ours?

How about what God decides God will perform, and do it according to His own purposes and will.

Why dont we just go with this here?
2 Thess 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.


He saved us for a purpose, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Chosen for salvation from the beginning points to a determined God. This is actually a powerful passage that also points to us not being able to be lost who are saved.

So you should standfast in the confidence that God has saved you and you will not be lost.

 

[razzelflabben]

How about what God decides God will perform, and do it according to His own purposes and will.

Why dont we just go with this here?
2 Thess 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.


He saved us for a purpose, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Chosen for salvation from the beginning points to a determined God. This is actually a powerful passage that also points to us not being able to be lost who are saved.

So you should standfast in the confidence that God has saved you and you will not be lost.

one of the things that has always bothered me about this argument is the assumption that we are not secure in Christ if we hold to the idea that we can forfeit our salvation just like we are the one's that accept it. It isnt' a debate about being secure in our salvation, but rather a debate about whether or not we lose the right of choice.

 

[sdowney717]

one of the things that has always bothered me about this argument is the assumption that we are not secure in Christ if we hold to the idea that we can forfeit our salvation just like we are the one's that accept it. It isnt' a debate about being secure in our salvation, but rather a debate about whether or not we lose the right of choice.

I just looked up 'choose' in the NT and there are only 3 verses.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Philippians 1:22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.

We see Christ choosing us, not us choosing Him.
So much for choose.

 

[razzelflabben]

I just looked up 'choose' in the NT and there are only 3 verses.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Philippians 1:22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell.

We see Christ choosing us, not us choosing Him.
So much for choose.

how about some related words...iow the idea not the exact word, I find that helpful to a lot of the studies I do in the word. For example, John 3:16 “For God loved the world in this way:[a] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

this passage suggests a choosing, as in we decide if we will believe or not.

Also, the passages used to justify predestination, all talk about being predestined to be like Christ (paraphrase) not to be a believer. so we have some serious issues when we try to be hard core about the idea of predestination and choice that simply isn't supported in scripture. Now, don't mistake what I am saying, this does NOT mean there isn't some grounds for the ideas, just that they are not as many try to make them out to be. More later if you want to talk, but my guess is that discussion isn't on the table.

 

[Danoh]

In Matthew 8, Jesus heals a man of leprosy and then tells him to go show himself to the priest and give the animal sacrifice that Moses commanded in Leviticus 14.

This shows Israel was still under God's system of Performance Based Acceptance: the Law.

In Matthew 12, He warns Israel, that they will be forgiven their blasphemy, speaking, or resistance against the Father, as well as against the Son, but doing so against the Spirit will not be forgiven them in that age, or in the one to come.

They kill the Son, God's wrath is set to fall, Psalm 2, but the Son prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do," Luke 23:34.

In Acts, the Spirit takes up where the Son had left off with that nation through the Twelve Apostles, offering the Father's pardon, with signs confirming His promise of their age to come, Acts 1-3.

In Acts 7, Stephan is killed just as the Spirit thru him condemns that nation with "ye do always resist the Holy Ghost."

Hebrews is written with that nation in mind. They had tasted the powers of their world to come, Hebrews 2 - they had had the Spirit's witness through signs and wonders among them. For them to deny its witness of their risen Messiah, the One Isaiah 53 prophesied would be wounded for their transgressions would be to deny He was the One prophesied - The Christ, the Son of God, the King of Israel. John 1:49.

It would be to still be waiting for Him to come and die for them, and as the Lord had said in John 5:

43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

In short, guess who Hebrews is written to? Guess why dying under Moses is referred in Hebrews 10?

 

[razzelflabben]

In Matthew 8, Jesus heals a man of leprosy and then tells him to go show himself to the priest and give the animal sacrifice that Moses commanded in Leviticus 14.

This shows Israel was still under God's system of Performance Based Acceptance: the Law.

In Matthew 12, He warns Israel, that they will be forgiven their blasphemy, speaking, or resistance against the Father, as well as against the Son, but doing so against the Spirit will not be forgiven them in that age, or in the one to come.

They kill the Son, God's wrath is set to fall, Psalm 2, but the Son prayed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do," Luke 23:34.

In Acts, the Spirit takes up where the Son had left off with that nation through the Twelve Apostles, offering the Father's pardon, with signs confirming His promise of their age to come, Acts 1-3.

In Acts 7, Stephan is killed just as the Spirit thru him condemns that nation with "ye do always resist the Holy Ghost."

Hebrews is written with that nation in mind. They had tasted the powers of their world to come, Hebrews 2 - they had had the Spirit's witness through signs and wonders among them. For them to deny its witness of their risen Messiah, the One Isaiah 53 prophesied would be wounded for their transgressions would be to deny He was the One prophesied - The Christ, the Son of God, the King of Israel. John 1:49.

It would be to still be waiting for Him to come and die for them, and as the Lord had said in John 5:

43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

In short, guess who Hebrews is written to? Guess why dying under Moses is referred in Hebrews 10?

honestly I have no idea what point you are trying to make

 

[sdowney717]

how about some related words...iow the idea not the exact word, I find that helpful to a lot of the studies I do in the word. For example, John 3:16 “For God loved the world in this way:[a] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

this passage suggests a choosing, as in we decide if we will believe or not.

Also, the passages used to justify predestination, all talk about being predestined to be like Christ (paraphrase) not to be a believer. so we have some serious issues when we try to be hard core about the idea of predestination and choice that simply isn't supported in scripture. Now, don't mistake what I am saying, this does NOT mean there isn't some grounds for the ideas, just that they are not as many try to make them out to be. More later if you want to talk, but my guess is that discussion isn't on the table.

That discussion has been on the table here in this forum and most everywhere for centuries long before my first post

So why do people believe in Christ?
We get a major clue from what Christ says about that in John 6

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[e] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life.

God must draw them to Christ. All those that God draws are going to be saved, since Christ says He raises them up.
In that drawing God teaches them about Christ
Christ says all that hear and learn from God will believe, all of them will be taught and come to Christ and be saved.
Christ says if you believe you have eternal life.

So since Christ says this and not all men are saved, then not all men are drawn by God to Christ. they are not listening and not learning from God, because God is not drawing them to Christ.

John 6
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Since Christ says this, if your reasonable thinking in your mind, you will understand God must grant that you repent or you wont come to Christ.

You can see why Christ says that when reading the prior verse about why someone does not believe.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

This is where we get the idea of being chosen - predestined by God to be taught to come to Christ. See this is not a robotic thing as we must be hearing and learning from God, so in a sense we trust-ourselves to Christ because God is a very good teacher.

Eph 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[cedric1200]

It's because of those verses that I don't believe in eternal salvation.

 

[razzelflabben]

That discussion has been on the table here in this forum and most everywhere for centuries long before my first post

So why do people believe in Christ?
We get a major clue from what Christ says about that in John 6

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[e] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life.

God must draw them to Christ. All those that God draws are going to be saved, since Christ says He raises them up.

now, I am all cool and chill with God drawing us to Christ, that isn't the question. But look at your own typed passage above, it says they can come, not they will. Notice the word can is a choice word, not a demanding word. So you have by your own passage failed to show what you claim.

In that drawing God teaches them about Christ
Christ says all that hear and learn from God will believe, all of them will be taught and come to Christ and be saved.

where is that verse? I don't recall it. I recall some about HIs sheep (aka believers) knowing His voice. In fact, when I did a search to find this passage you refer to, that is some that came up, but nothing about all who hear and learn believing, so I need to see the passage....thanks in advance. BTW, just to clarify, this passage as you quote it says "can" come.

Christ says if you believe you have eternal life.

again, not in debate.

So since Christ says this and not all men are saved, then not all men are drawn by God to Christ. they are not listening and not learning from God, because God is not drawing them to Christ.

what makes you think this is an issue for what I am suggesting to you?

John 6
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Since Christ says this, if your reasonable thinking in your mind, you will understand God must grant that you repent or you wont come to Christ.

this sentence doesn't even make sense after reading it twice. But let me remind you of this passage which compliments the one you are presenting. Romans 10:14-15 (HCSB) 14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful[a] are the feet of those who announce the gospel of good things![c]


the two passages are so beautiful and powerful together.

You can see why Christ says that when reading the prior verse about why someone does not believe.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

and your point is...what exactly? This verse is spot on for what I am telling you. If you want to try to disagree with me, find a passage that disagrees not ones that agree.

This is where we get the idea of being chosen - predestined by God to be taught to come to Christ. See this is not a robotic thing as we must be hearing and learning from God, so in a sense we trust-ourselves to Christ because God is a very good teacher.

not question God is an awesome teacher, but let me throw you another complimentary passage, just for fun....Romans 8:29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

look what we were predestined to, not salvation, that was foreknowledge, we were predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son....

Eph 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

yep, love this passage as well, but few grasp what it really says. The indwelling HS is our guarantee of salvation, a HS whose work is perfecting us in the faith...aka righteousness. IOW's if you are not seeing the fruit of righteousness in your life, you have no guarantee of salvation. How cool is that!!!!! Awesome sauce. We have an assurance, but it isn't faith alone, it is the indwelling HS that brings into our life the fruit of the spirit Gal. 5 and that includes but is not limited to the fruit consistent with righteousness Matt. 3:8 and PHil. 1:11

 

[razzelflabben]

It's because of those verses that I don't believe in eternal salvation.

Eternal salvation as opposed to what? Like I said previously, many misrepresent one side of the issue by trying to claim they have no assurance. This is totally false, there is great assurance on both sides of the issue when it comes to the "guarantee" of salvation and it's longevity. The differing issue is not how long or how secure we are but whether or not God removes His gift of choice upon salvation.

 

[bling]

How about what God decides God will perform, and do it according to His own purposes and will.

Why dont we just go with this here?
2 Thess 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.


He saved us for a purpose, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Chosen for salvation from the beginning points to a determined God. This is actually a powerful passage that also points to us not being able to be lost who are saved.

So you should standfast in the confidence that God has saved you and you will not be lost.

The scripture does point out the fact God from the beginning of time was going to save those that accepted and held on.

Why does Paul even need to say: “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” If there is no “chance” of them not holding on?

There is no question about God keeping His promises, but man can give up what man truly possesses.

 

[sdowney717]

The scripture does point out the fact God from the beginning of time was going to save those that accepted and held on.

Why does Paul even need to say: “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” If there is no “chance” of them not holding on?

There is no question about God keeping His promises, but man can give up what man truly possesses.

The way to think of this is we are possessed by the Lord. So not about what we possess that counts regarding an eternal salvation.

Eph 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have temporary life.

oops, not temporary is it! 'eternal life'

Now as to standing fast, that is what the elect will do as God has enabled them. Paul is hereby encouraging them in their faith telling them God is faithful to preserve them so then stand fast.

1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

The Eternal Father God has done three things Apostle Jude teaches.
a. Called them to be saved, to know Him and be His possession forever.
b. Sanctified them, made them Holy to the Lord
c. Preserved them in Jesus Christ, meaning God has arranged all things to their good for those He has called to be conformed to the image of Christ. And God has made sure they are preserved by faith.

Apostle Peter teaches us this
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If a righteous man falls God will raise Him up again.

Proverbs 24:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

16 Though a righteous man falls seven times,
he will get up,
but the wicked will stumble into ruin.

Seven is a number perhaps of Godly perfection, so dont thing literally on the eighth time they fall to ruin. Jesus told Peter to forgive seventy times seven in a single day.

But if they are darkened, not lightened by Christ, then they remain in their sinful condition.
Eph 4

 

[razzelflabben]

The way to think of this is we are possessed by the Lord. So not about what we possess that counts regarding an eternal salvation.

Eph 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

well, your first mistake is this passage which clearly shows us making the decision to follow. The predestined person does not make the decision, thus this passage does not exist to them. Seriously, I have had this discussion and shown this passage and others like it and it is always ignored.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have temporary life.

oops, not temporary is it! 'eternal life'

but again, it is whoever believes, not whoever is chosen, but whoever believes. this is the first step to understanding our security in Christ. It is to understand that we do have a choice, a say even though it is God who calls us and knows what we will choose.

Now as to standing fast, that is what the elect will do as God has enabled them. Paul is hereby encouraging them in their faith telling them God is faithful to preserve them so then stand fast.

1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

The Eternal Father God has done three things Apostle Jude teaches.
a. Called them to be saved, to know Him and be His possession forever.
b. Sanctified them, made them Holy to the Lord
c. Preserved them in Jesus Christ, meaning God has arranged all things to their good for those He has called to be conformed to the image of Christ. And God has made sure they are preserved by faith.

but see, this is the problem, both extremes believe their salvation is secure. Yet they hammer each other relentlessly over how off the other side is. Eternal security isn't about how secure you are in Christ, it is about whether or not you lose the right to choose for yourself who you will follow.

Apostle Peter teaches us this
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

so given that this is not about whether or not you are secure in Christ but whether or not you lose your choice....let's look at what this passage says..."who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation..." notice it is God's power and our faith working together. This is important, make sure if you need to, you read it again. God's power our living in trust of that. What happens then, if one or the other of those things fails? What then?

If a righteous man falls God will raise Him up again.

Proverbs 24:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

16 Though a righteous man falls seven times,
he will get up,
but the wicked will stumble into ruin.

that isn't a problem because it is talking about whether God will fail to be the power we need. No one is suggesting He is not. In fact, the only thing being suggested is that we can stop believing, stop trusting and in that, the power and living by faith is broken, not by God but by us. This is not to say that any sin is grounds for a broken covenant, duh. Rather it is a willful act just like it took a willful act to come to Christ in the first place. (aka belief of the heart)

Seven is a number perhaps of Godly perfection, so dont thing literally on the eighth time they fall to ruin. Jesus told Peter to forgive seventy times seven in a single day.

But if they are darkened, not lightened by Christ, then they remain in their sinful condition.
Eph 4

not sure what you are trying to say here