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How Many Judgments are there? and How Many Hells are there?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by agape101, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. agape101

    agape101 Newbie

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    Revelation 20:13 "and the sea gave up the dead who were in it, death and Hell gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."

    So Some are in Hell being tortured for thousands of years without even being Judged? Or have they been judged, then whats the point of another judgment- only to condemn again- like a fake trial? Then cast down into Hell again?

    Revelation 20:14 "then death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire- this is the second death."

    So, not only does both the "sea" and "hell" give up the "dead" which are in them but "hell" is cast into the lake of fire? With the depiction of an eternal hell- sharing the same reputation as the lake of fire but are clearly referenced as two separate things, how many Hells are there? Why do both the "sea" and "hell" have dead people in them? If you get sent to heaven or hell when you die- how are there dead people in the "sea"?
     
  2. Mikecpking

    Mikecpking Senior Member

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    Good point. So many people have ideas that have been handed down to them that has their origins from Raman-Grek and Babylonian philosophy and read it into scripture.

    There is only one judgement and ultimately one punishment, which is after the resurrection on the last day. In the meantime, people who have died are still in the grave awaiting the resurrection, 'asleep' with no thoughts or memories until that day arrives.
     
  3. FaithfulJoel

    FaithfulJoel Newbie

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    Anyone should please feel free to express divergent views from what is written below. I'm here to learn and to share.

    There are certain things written in the comment below which are rather unsettling and unimaginable. I simply quoted the Bible verses to support the views expressed. The question as to who goes to hell or not is open to debate.

    Thanks.

    --------------



    Nice one Mikecpking. The omission in your comment is about "hell" and "the lake of fire."

    @agape101: There's a sharp contrast between "hell" and "the lake of fire" which many believers are shock to discover when they study the Bible.

    There' one judgment at the Great White Throne which is yet to take place, but the ungodly and careless ones are some where in torment, awaiting the day of deliverance for judgment at the Great White Throne.

    What is the difference between "Hell" and "The lake of Fire"?

    Read below:

    In discussing the subject of hell, some pertinent questions can be raised such as: Where is hell located and What's the nature of the fire burning in it? Will hell last forever?

    Where is hell located? The Bible states in clear terms that hell is located in the lower part of the earth. It's the belly of the earth where some souls (for some reasons) are held bound pending judgment at the Great White Throne. Please note that series of events will take place before judgment at the Great White Throne. One of such events is the second advent and millennial reign of Christ on earth.

    Bible passages that support the notion that Hell is located in the lower part of the earth:

    Isaiah 14:9
    Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. Isaiah 14:8-10.

    Isaiah 14:15
    Ye shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:14-16

    Ezekiel 31:16
    I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. Ezekiel 31:15-17.

    Ezekiel 31:17
    They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. Ezekiel 31:16-18.

    Amos 9:2
    Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: Amos 9:1-3.

    What's the nature of the fire burning in Hell?

    The fire burns but consumes not the souls therein. Hell indeed is a terrible place to be. Below are some Bible passages that hint of the nature of fire burning in hell.

    Mark 9:43
    And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mark 9:42-44 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)

    Luke 10:15
    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

    Is hell forever, that is: will the souls therein burn forever? NO!

    All the souls in hell shall be delivered up for judgment at the Great White Throne. Below are the Bible passages:

    Revelation 20:13
    And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Revelation 20:12-14 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)

    Rev 20:14
    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)

    Who goes to hell?

    All non-believers who had the privilege to hear but rejected the gospel of Christ shall go to hell. All careless Christians who die in sins (never appropriate the blood of Jesus before death), all selfish people, and several other classes of people - some believers and non-believers alike will go to hell for various reasons.

    Matthew 25:1-end - The parable of the five foolish virgins and unprofitable servants set before us how some believers will miss reigning with Christ when He returns. Some servants of God, too, due to their "Green Pasture and Still Waters" ministration will go to hell because they misled the saints! If need be, I can explain what I mean by "Green Pastures and Still Waters Ministration"

    Bible reference to clergies who will go to hell:

    Matthew 7:21-23:

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    The people referred to in verses 21 to 23 are clergies who mis-used the anointing of God upon their lives. They were not those who partnered with the devil to run their ministry (Those ones are going to hell anyway because they have no part in God's kingdom). The error of clergies who mis-used God's anointing is that they devoted their ministry to preaching the gifts of God instead of God the Giver.

    Their flocks are intimated with the idea of "give" as opposed to "make." Human beings want God to "give" them all sorts of things - Granted! God wants to give, but most importantly, He wants to "make us" to become Christ like. So all what the clergies preached bordered around Green Pastures and Still Waters (Breakthroughs). Their ministry did not produce mature Christians who go all the way with God in the path of righteousness. The message of the cross that is necessary in pursuing God's will is foreign to them. To their flock, God is nothing more than the Santa Claus! Many, indeed, are on the broad way!

    On Lake of Fire:

    "Lake of fire" is a different subject from hell, though many Christians assume that both refer to the same place.

    Where is the lake of fire, and what does the Bible say about it?

    Lake of fire is the fire burning before the God Almighty. When The Bible says "our God is a consuming fire" it's referring to the fire that burns before or around Him.

    Biblical references to the manifestations of Lake of Fire on earth:

    Genesis 19:24
    Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

    Exodus 19:18
    And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

    Exodus 24:17
    And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

    Leviticus 10:1-2
    And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

    1 Chronicles 21:26
    And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.

    2 Kings 1:10
    And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 2 Kings 1:9-11

    2 Kings 1:12
    And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 2 Kings 1:11-13

    2 Kings 1:14
    Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight. 2 Kings 1:13-15 (in Context) 2 Kings 1 (Whole Chapter)

    So from the few Bible passages above, it's can be seen that there's a fire that burns in God's presence. This fire is different from the fire that burns in hell.

    What's the nature of the lake of fire? Does it consume or burn endlessly like the fire in hell?

    That's another subject worth exploring.
     
  4. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    I think it's fair to say that generally speaking the historic Christian understanding is that following death there is a particular judgment, into which we enter the intermediate state in which we wait until the Last Judgment whereby we are raised from the dead and either enter into the fullness of heavenly joy or the completion of divine chastisement.

    The general, ancient, perspective is that the intermediate state is a foretaste of the ultimate state; that is the righteous go and experience a foretaste of the future glory and the wicked a foretaste of the future agony.

    So, yes, there is an immediate and particular judgment following our individual death, but there is also a final and general judgment of all at the end of the age.

    There is some precidence of this in Jewish thought, in the concepts of Ge-Hinnom and Gan-Eden, the places of waiting prior to the resurrection and final judgment of God preceding the Olam Ha'ba, the Age to Come.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  5. Hebrews 9:27 says it is destined for a man to die once and after that the judgment. What Judgment do you think that will be?
     
  6. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    The Great White Throne Judgment. Which is the second resurrection.
     
  7. I thought that this Judgment was only after Satan had been cast and chained into hell (Revelation 20). I was thinking that the Judgment described in Hebrews 9:27 referred to the Judgment Seat of Christ - the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46). What do you think?
     
  8. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    I'm not entirely sure that the author of Hebrews is intending to establish theological dogma regarding judgment, but rather to illustrate a point: in the same way that we have this one life to live, after which we will be judged so has Christ once and for all become the sacrifice to atone for our sins. The uniqueness of this one life we have to live is used axiomatically.

    When all is said and done, I'm convinced I will have to stand before my Lord in the end and the weight of my life will be evaluated. Beyond that, I'm sure He's got it all under control.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  9. Emmy

    Emmy Senior Veteran

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    Dear agape 101. I believe there is only One Judgment, and Hell is anywhere without God `s Love. Jesus told us about a place in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light where there can be heard loud wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus also told the repenting thief hanging next to Him on a cross: " today you will be with me in Paradise." And after our Lord`s resurrection, He told His disciples: " do not be sad, I am going home to the Father, and there I will prepare a place for you, in my Father`s House of Many Mansions." I say this with love, agape. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
     
  10. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    :thumbsup: Yes. Just to add...the separation of the sheeps and goats is done at His return. so, we're in this foretaste until His return, then His children go with Him. :)
     
  11. NewUser123

    NewUser123 New Member

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    What judgement is being shown in 2 Tim 4:1/Reve 11:18 :confused:

    http://christianforums.com/f804
    2 Timothy 4:1 translation

    2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the God and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about to be judging living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him
    [Revelation 11:18]

    Reve 11:18 And the nations are wrought and came the wrath of Thee and the time of the dead to be judged
    and to give the wages to the bond-servants of Thee the prophets and to the saints and to the ones fearing the name of Thee, the *little and the *great,
    and to blight the ones blighting the land.
    [2 Timothy 4:1]
     
  12. Jpark

    Jpark Contributor

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    Hopefully, this will be my last post in GT. :)

    Rev. 20:13 is literal, indicated by the reference to the sea. So then, "hell", "hades", in this instance, is the grave, a physical place. Num. 16:29-34 also refers to the grave, but where did Korah go? Surely, the earth's mantle is the grave. Matt. 12:40.

    So then, the lake of fire must be the earth's core. Rev. 20:14 depicts, perhaps partially, the destruction mentioned in 2 Peter 3:10.
     
  13. NewUser123

    NewUser123 New Member

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    Hopefully not :thumbsup:

    Mr. Heretic
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2011
  14. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    I think that the converse is more fascinating, and perhaps arguably more biblical; namely that Hell isn't absence of God's love, but is God's love. For example, we can recall the Psalmist who says,

    "Behind and before You encircle me and rest Your hand upon me. Such knowledge is beyond me, far too lofty for me to reach. Where can I hide from Your Spirit? From Your presence, where can I flee? If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I lie down in Sheol, You are there too. If I fly with the wings of dawn and alight upon the sea, even there Your hand will guide me, Your right hand to hold me fast." - Psalm 139:5-10

    Is there anything or anywhere outside of the presence of God? And if God is Love, as we are reminded by St. John, then is it possible that Hell too is God's Love presented before the wicked who cannot bear the fires of Love's torment?

    I think St. Isaac speaks rightly when he says Heaven and Hell are two sides of God's Love, for the righteous it is the joy of fellowship with God, for the wicked it is the sting of remorse and regret.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. agape101

    agape101 Newbie

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    That doesn't come with a time frame, only a sequence... that means judgment comes after death. Nowhere does it say judgment is immediate or even within 1,000 years after death.

    I think there is only one judgment, but I also don't believe there are people being tortured in hell right now either...
     
  16. solarwave

    solarwave Guest

    I think the confusion comes from taking these things too literally.

    For example I could be wrong but the sea was a symbol of death and chaos.

    It also depends on what word was used for hell in the greek, as it could just mean the grave. It doesn't mean the hell we understand the word to mean anyway. The lake of fire is probably closer to our idea of hell. Hell being thrown into the lake of fire shows that death and evil has been defeated.
     
  17. agape101

    agape101 Newbie

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    Actually, when the NT was written there was no punctuation used so the words ran together... commas weren't inserted till much later.

    so... Jesus very well could have said "verily I say unto you today, you shall be with me in paradise,' and since he was dead for three days until resurrected one would assume the latter is correct.

    Like saying "i'm telling you now, you're not going to the movie"

    as opposed to 'i'm telling you, you are not going to the movie now." depends on structure and punctuation.
     
  18. PilgrimToChrist

    PilgrimToChrist New Member

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    There are two judgments. When we die, we are judged and we go either to Heaven or Hell. Justice demands that judgment be immediate ("justice delayed is justice denied"). Then, at the end of time, we are judged again according to our works, that is according to all the effects of our actions now that there are no more effects of anything because we have reached the end of time.

    Thus there are two Judgments -- a Particular Judgment immediately after we die and a General Judgment at the end of time.
     
  19. Gary51

    Gary51 Senior Veteran

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    The Judgment of the Dead

    11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

    Most folk think that all who face judgment are damned. That is not true. The books that are opened are the books of the bible. Folk will be judge by the bible.

    Only those who refuse to accept what is recorded in the bible will not be added to the book of life, and be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.

    Most will choose life!
     
  20. Gary51, what do you think the Book of Life is exactly?

    Does Scripture say people will be judged by the Bible? I thought, perhaps I'm mistaken, that people would be judged by the Ten Commandments, God's Moral Law, which is written on our hearts. What is your understanding of Romans 2:12-16?

    Romans 2:12-16 says, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."