How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

[Davian]

I know that you don't like when I ask a question prior to answering yours but in this case hope you will allow me to.

Why is it do you think that it must be the imagination for people to experience God and why would it be in the millions of those who do experience it?

It is a tentative conclusion, based on the continuing inability for even one of those millions to demonstrate that their experience is more than a product of their imagination. Have you ever heard of the concept of the burden of evidence? I know you have said yes to that in the past, but with each new post from you, I wonder anew.

 

[Davian]

How will that change the validity of the answer?

Pick any definition you want -- it still makes abiogenesis a joke.

I gather that you think most of mainstream science is a joke.

But, I know you'll make exceptions for computers, the internet, and cable television.

 

[Davian]

Testable how, exactly.

In a manner that might differentiate it from the imaginary.

You see an angel tonight. How do you prove it?
If you say you saw an angel, others will say you were deluded.
If you took a picture they would call it a lab error.
If you had an audio recording, they would call it dubious.

How exactly do you prove something supernatural by natural means?

Not my problem however you do it. Show me that you are not simply imagining it.

 

[Davian]

If not the word of God, then what is it?

In the absence of evidence for gods, parsimony would have it be the works of men.

 

[SteveB28]

If not the word of God, then what is it?

Well, the answer to that is surely obvious.

But that wasn't my point. I delivered that response as a counter to a claim by someone else that Young Earth Creationists don't read the words of the Bible literally. Henry Morris is a famous example of that being shown to be false. And I gather that you would be a less famous example as well?

 

[Blue Wren]

Well, the answer to that is surely obvious.

But that wasn't my point. I delivered that response as a counter to a claim by someone else that Young Earth Creationists don't read the words of the Bible literally. Henry Morris is a famous example of that being shown to be false. And I gather that you would be a less famous example as well?

That was not the claim that I made, no. We all know, that Young Earth Creationists, they read the words of Genesis literally, whereas most Christians realise they're allegorical. What I wrote was, "even the young earth creationists, do not take every word, of the Bible, literally, no?" There are many verses in the Bible, instructing that the punishment of stoning to death be meted out, for various offences. I don't think Henry Morris stoned to death any of the many people he met in his life, who committed those offences.

 

[JasonClark]

Because belief in a god is a personal thing it doesn't really matter how many other people believe, the only time it matters is when you are starting to lose your belief, then you need others to confirm to you that your beliefs are not false, that's why churches exist.

 

[JasonClark]

The ultimate snake oil salesman trick. When the medicine doesn't work, blame the patient.

If creationists could see and understand this then there would be no creationism, unfortunately they do not seem to know what a snake oil salesman is, they see only men of god.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because belief in a god is a personal thing it doesn't really matter how many other people believe, the only time it matters is when you are starting to lose your belief, then you need others to confirm to you that your beliefs are not false, that's why churches exist.

And what church, if any, do you attend?

If creationists could see and understand this then there would be no creationism, unfortunately they do not seem to know what a snake oil salesman is, they see only men of god.

Consol?

 

[JasonClark]

And what church, if any, do you attend?



Consol?

I have no need of a church.

Consol??

 

[KWCrazy]

Not my problem however you do it. Show me that you are not simply imagining it.

Nice way to avoid the question.
So you have no answer.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have no need of a church.

Then where do you go when you need to confirm that your beliefs are not false?

 

[KWCrazy]

We all know, that Young Earth Creationists, they read the words of Genesis literally, whereas most Christians realise they're allegorical.

Please describe the allegory.
Most Hebrew scholars understand that it was the clear intent of the author to identify six solar days; an evening and morning, numbered days etc. Couple that with Exodus 20:11 in which the command to keep the Sabbath was based on a six day creation and we see foundational doctrine based on something you reject.

So using only Scripture, not the interpretations of men, please show me passages of Scripture that indicate that the creation and the flood are merely allegories.

There are many verses in the Bible, instructing that the punishment of stoning to death be meted out, for various offences.

Christ issued the New Covenant. Perhaps you heard of it. Men can now be saved by grace instead of by works, and the blood of Christ offers forgiveness from sin. How is it a learned person who understands the Scriptures doesn't know this very basic doctrine?

 

[MiniEmu]

I'm not sure creationism itself would drive people away. I can see the logic to it, and if we're being honest the only impact holding onto such views has (when they are held without the intention of pushing them into the throats of others) is perhaps that general job opportunities in certain sectors are greatly reduced.

However individual creationists, and the way they go about certain things, are certainly capable of leaving an unpleasant taste in your mouth and causing a deep desire to distance yourself from them. Similarly the way in which certain individuals who disagree with creationism in any form act can cause unnecessary rifts within the scientific community. It is hard to be a Christian who believes in God and His Creation within certain areas of science.

It is only relatively recently (in the grand scheme of things) that such huge divides between faith and science have been seen, and I'm not sure all the blame can be laid on one party...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Please describe the allegory.
Most Hebrew scholars understand that it was the clear intent of the author to identify six solar days; an evening and morning, numbered days etc. Couple that with Exodus 20:11 in which the command to keep the Sabbath was based on a six day creation and we see foundational doctrine based on something you reject.

Noting that Exodus was put to print before Genesis -- meaning that the Sabbath was already in place when the story hit the mainstream.

So using only Scripture, not the interpretations of men, please show me passages of Scripture that indicate that the creation and the flood are merely allegories.

Scripture itself is the interpetation of men -- unless you honestly believe that the totality of God's existence can be encapsulated in human speech...

Christ issued the New Covenant. Perhaps you heard of it. Men can now be saved by grace instead of by works, and the blood of Christ offers forgiveness from sin. How is it a learned person who understands the Scriptures doesn't know this very basic doctrine?

Probably because there's another very basic doctrine which indicates that God is eternal and unchanging -- a doctrine Christ promptly turned on its ear.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then where do you go when you need to confirm that your beliefs are not false?

Perhaps he's an "Independent"?

 

[JasonClark]

Then where do you go when you need to confirm that your beliefs are not false?

I do not follow a religious doctrine, I think for myself so I have no one to rely on (or blame) other than myself, I make my own decisions and I must take full responsibility for my actions and decisions, I came in to this world on my own and I will go out on my own. (as did and will we all)

There is no moral to a life story, when it's over it's over, we do our best for the ones we love and try to leave them happy and better off for knowing us, submerging my life in a myth would help no one least of all the people around me.
If creationism was benign it would be ignored, but it's not so it must be opposed.

 

[KWCrazy]

Noting that Exodus was put to print before Genesis -- meaning that the Sabbath was already in place when the story hit the mainstream.

It is correct that the Israelites were not a literate people. However, the Sabbath was instigated right after the creation, so Adam knew about it. Beyond that, the history of the Israelites would have been passed on over the generations through re-telling, so when the Torah was written the scholars would have already known enough to recognize that the writing was revealed by God.

Scripture itself is the interpetation of men -- unless you honestly believe that the totality of God's existence can be encapsulated in human speech...

Jesus taught that it was the inspired word of God. He attested to the accuracy of everything written in the Scriptures.

 

[KWCrazy]

Probably because there's another very basic doctrine which indicates that God is eternal and unchanging -- a doctrine Christ promptly turned on its ear.

Not at all. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sin. Jesus was the lamb of God, meaning that no other blood sacrifice was necessary. No change; just a debt paid for us by the Lord.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is correct that the Israelites were not a literate people. However, the Sabbath was instigated right after the creation, so Adam knew about it.

According to...?

Beyond that, the history of the Israelites would have been passed on over the generations through re-telling, so when the Torah was written the scholars would have already known enough to recognize that the writing was revealed by God.

Revealed by God because it was passed on through oral tradition? Are all such stories revealed by God?

Jesus taught that it was the inspired word of God. He attested to the accuracy of everything written in the Scriptures.

Good on him -- I should believe him because...?